Quote :

"I say we're past scarcity"

We will never be past scarcity. Please understand, just because we enjoy a higher standard of living than we did 50 years ago, doesn't mean scarcity no longer exists. Scarcity, in economic terms, just means that resources are finite, and that there will always be more people who want to do more things with more resouces than there are resources. The question then arises, how do we allocate the finite resources we have right now to most effectively satisfy the wants and needs of consumers? Capitalism provides an answer. Socialism, by definition, cannot.

Quote :

"Despite the supposed shortage, farmers refuse to grow more, because that would lower prices."

For every dumbass farmer who thinks that they, individually, have meaningful control over commodity prices, there are probably a hundred who don't and are trying to milk this for all its worth while it lasts by growing as much as possible.

Quote :

"That's not a rational or efficient system. "

Whoever they quoted is not a rational or efficient person. That's no indictment of the system.

Quote :

" We have widespread waste"

Great, someday we should be rich enough to waste a lot more.

Quote :

" and gross inequality. "

This is a meaningless charge. I presume you mean that wealth is distributed unequally. That's true in nominal terms, but there's no meaningful conclusion that can be drawn from that when we look at things in marginal and subjective terms. Each person has different values and priorities. A hard charging type-A career man might derive a lot of value from the wealth and prestige accorded him by his resolute work-ethic. A hippy such as yourself would probably find such a life unbearable and would instead seek out a more leisurely and bucolic existence. Since there is no objective standard of value on which to compare the both of you, its impossible to determine who is the better off.

As long as people are free to seek their own value and pursue their own vision of the good life, the exact distribution of material wealth is largely irrelevant.

Quote :

"How does anarcho-capitalism address this problem?"

I guess you're pointing out a "problem" with capitalism that is entirely a figment of your imagination.

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 1:08 PM. Reason : ']

6/3/2008 1:06:10 PM

Quote :

"Scarcity, in economic terms, just means that resources are finite, and that there will always be more people who want to do more things with more resouces than there are resources."

And technocracy rejects this notion. It's private ownership that allows people unlimited desires. You can only consume so much. Therefore, we can satisfy everyone's consumption needs. This doesn't apply to truly scare things, such as original paintings, but I don't care much about that. We can give everyone the essentials: education, food, shelter, communicate, transportation, and medical care.

Quote :

"Socialism, by definition, cannot."

Technocracy uses energy credits to measure demand. I'd want something similar. A free association of syndicates determined to provide equally to all.

Quote :

"For every dumbass farmer who thinks that they, individually, have meaningful control over commodity prices, there are probably a hundred who don't and are trying to milk this for all its worth while it lasts by growing as much as possible."

I don't think that's how agricultural production works in developed countries. After, the government pays people to keep fields empty. We send food to other countries to get rid the surplus and control prices. I'm not certain, but I believe European agricultural policy is similarly nutty. Much of the problem comes from state meddling, but capitalism does discourage maximum production. Too much supply lowers prices.

Quote :

"Great, someday we should be rich enough to waste a lot more."

That would be fine if people weren't going without. The price system encourages destroying or discarding products rather than giving them away. This is inefficient and insane. Anarchists run into the problem regularly. Some stores literally guard their garbage. Cops also typically oppose dumpster diving.

Quote :

"That's true in nominal terms, but there's no meaningful conclusion that can be drawn from that when we look at things in marginal and subjective terms."

What an excellent attempt to use postmodern fuzziness to rationalize inequality. You know damn well it isn't primarily a difference in preferences and values. Ask the people involved if you don't believe me. When anarchists see such differences of wealth, we want to smash them. We don't care so much how they appeared. That's the problem with markets and private property. They invariably lead to inequality, hierarchy, and oppression, in that order. Oppression isn't significantly better if it comes from a bosses economic power rather than his political power.

If Bill Gates owned the country, anarcho-capitalists would presumably work under whatever terms his dictated. You'd be free to do whatever you wanted off his property, but you couldn't get off his property without using one of his planes or boats. Anarchists, on the other hand, would break into one of his many houses, drink his beer, eat his food, smoke his weed, and use his printer to create zines.

6/3/2008 1:47:35 PM

Quote :

"We can give everyone the essentials:"

Do you have them to give? I didn't think so.

You'd either have to take them, by force, from those who produce them. in which case you'd provide such a disincentive to production and such an incentive to sloth and indolence that civilization would grind to a halt; or you'd have to set up a system where people's disparate interests coincide, where people have a compact and efficient way to aggregate vast amounts of data about the individual, subjective desires of millions of people, where people have an incentive to act on that information, and then you'd be right back at laissez-faire capitalism.

Quote :

"Much of the problem comes from state meddling"

Then I'm glad we're agreed.

Quote :

"capitalism does discourage maximum production"

Producers aren't going to increase production beyond the point where marginal cost exceeds marginal benefit, nor should they. For example, it would be no trick at all to produce twice as many cars, but this would come at the cost of real resources, real steel, real plastic, real labor, that are also needed for the production of other goods and services. More cars would have to come at the cost of fewer washing machines, fewer skycrapers, fewer container ships etc... If automakers don't find it profitable to double their output it is because consumers are satisfied with the output of automobiles and are bidding resources towards other lines of production by purchasing other goods and services that they find equally necessary or beneficial.

Quote :

"Too much supply lowers prices. "

Great, low prices rock

Quote :

"The price system encourages destroying or discarding products rather than giving them away. This is inefficient and insane. Anarchists run into the problem regularly. Some stores literally guard their garbage."

When you produce food, process it, package it, transport it, build a store to stock it, then you can do with it what you wish. If selfish people weren't already doing all this out of pure self-interest, then there wouldn't even be dumpsters for you to complain about not being able to get into. You'd have to wrest your livelihood straight from nature's cruel, unforgiving claws instead of being able to feast on the detritus of the capitalist society you despise.

Quit your bitching. Nobody's stopping you from establishing an altruistic, technocratic collective. If it's such a great idea, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and do it?

Quote :

"What an excellent attempt to use postmodern fuzziness to rationalize inequality."

It's not postmodern fuzziness. I'm stating the absolute, objective, verifiable, truth that value is individual and subjective.

Quote :

"You know damn well it isn't primarily a difference in preferences and values."

Yes, to the extent that violent statist intervention warps and twists things. That, however is a problem I propose we rectify.

Quote :

"Oppression isn't significantly better if it comes from a bosses economic power rather than his political power. "

I've worked for bosses that I've found to be oppressive. The solution has always been simple, I fired them. The solution to political oppression is orders of magnitude more difficult. There damn straight is a significant difference.

6/3/2008 3:02:46 PM

Quote :

"and then you'd be right back at laissez-faire capitalism."

I'm going to give technocracy a shot first.

Quote :

"Great, low prices rock"

Not for producers.

Quote :

"When you produce food, process it, package it, transport it, build a store to stock it, then you can do with it what you wish."

And, for the goal satisfying everyone's consumption needs, that's inefficient. If a person has more than they could possibly use, taking it becomes a moral action.

Quote :

"You'd have to wrest your livelihood straight from nature's cruel, unforgiving claws instead of being able to feast on the detritus of the capitalist society you despise."

Again, productive ability comes from science and engineering, not capitalism. I full support those two things.

Quote :

"Quit your bitching. Nobody's stopping you from establishing an altruistic, technocratic collective. If it's such a great idea, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and do it?"

Because I don't have much money. Until advanced personal nanofactories arrive, individual or small-scale technocracy would fail utterly. I'd need a lot of capital and a lot of comrades. It's not too likely, but I remain hopeful. If we ever get mature nanotechnology, I'm blasting off this rock. At that point, anyone will be able to become self-sufficient.

Quote :

"Yes, to the extent that violent statist intervention warps and twists things. That, however is a problem I propose we rectify."

As I said, I'd be willing to see how anarcho-capitalism turned out. If, in fact, it is all the state's fault, perhaps your dumpsters would turn safe from foragers.

6/3/2008 4:21:38 PM

These 2 have got to be the same person.

6/3/2008 4:56:35 PM

^^

I'm not going to keep responding to you unless you can back your shit up. Capitalism has a substantial and well though-out theoretical basis and a centuries long track record of producing nearly miraculous gains in material standard of living despite being hobbled (so far) by persistent statist fallacies.

You seem to be unable to do more than spew "eat the rich" hostility and issue vague appeals to "technology" and "self-sufficiency"

6/3/2008 6:55:50 PM

Well, then the debate ends, much to relief of the rest of the Soap Box. I'm not responding to simple hostility. Give me something specific and we'll talk. By the way, ascribing the entirety of modern advances to capitalism seems like a jump. Even if you're right, that doesn't make the free market and Adam Smith necessary. You can have invention without the invisible hand. You couldn't have material progress without invention.

6/3/2008 7:19:46 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap_on_re_us/trooper_aggression;_ylt=Ar9YXcsUZNcXP7ioiQNHxW5vzwcF

Quote :

" COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Highway Patrol trooper who was caught on video ramming a suspect with his patrol car was indicted Tuesday on a federal civil rights charge, the U.S. Justice Department said. ADVERTISEMENT Steve C. Garren was indicted by a federal grand jury in Greenville on a charge of willfully depriving a man of his constitutional right to be free from the use of unreasonable force by a police officer, authorities said. Garren is white; the suspect he rammed is black. State and federal authorities began investigating the highway patrol in March after videos emerged that showed troopers using a racial epithet and ramming their cruisers into fleeing suspects. The head of the patrol, as well as the head of the agency that oversees it, both resigned in February amid charges of racism among troopers. The investigations continue. Garren was placed on suspension without pay immediately, said Mark Keel, who was confirmed last week as director of the Department of Public Safety. Garren had also been suspended for two days after the 2007 incident. It was not immediately clear if Garren, who is from Greenwood, had an attorney. Keel and the U.S. Attorney's Office said they did not know, and a home listing for Garren could not be found. Black lawmakers and Gov. Mark Sanford criticized the patrol after a four-year-old video emerged showing an officer using a derogatory term for blacks while pursuing a suspect on foot. Several weeks later, the patrol released more videos showing troopers using their cars to ram fleeing suspects. "You better run," the officer yells in the first video released, using a slur, "because I'm fixin' to kill you." If convicted, Garren faces up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000. Walt Wilkins, recently confirmed as U.S. Attorney for South Carolina, did not say if more indictments would be forthcoming investigations. But he said he anticipated more presentations to the federal grand jury. He also said authorities would work to identify other possible federal cases."

6/10/2008 7:06:52 PM

^ I couldn't really hear the full conversation in "The South Carolina Highway Patrol: Southern Hospitality" video above--did (1) the guy get pulled over, (2) the car get impounded as a result, and (3) the trooper left the female passenger standing on the side of the road at night?

If so on 3, that's. . . . The trooper should be fired immediately--or whoever created the policy if he was following policy.

[Edited on June 10, 2008 at 7:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2008 7:40:44 PM

http://www.charlotte.com/109/story/667922.html

6/13/2008 1:26:09 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080615/ap_on_re_us/baby_killed;_ylt=AjrH7BKhiHWAl7BRSoaq9Wes0NUE


not about a corrupt cop but shocking story nonetheless

6/16/2008 1:52:43 AM

^^ LOL. Look at the ex-cop on the left in the photos. He's, like, "OH SHIT--ORANGE JUMPSUIT!" The one on the right is, like, "Yeah, I did dat shit. So what, motherfucker?"

^ That's rough--no winners.

6/16/2008 3:40:12 AM

Fla. cop canned after Starbucks accuses him of demanding free coffee

Quote :

"A police officer was fired after Starbucks employees complained that he was demanding free drinks in return for patrolling the area and responding to emergency calls in a timely manner. Daytona Beach, Fla., police Lt. Major Garvin was fired July 8 after an internal affairs investigation into allegations that he had been stopping at the store up to six times a night since June 2007, the News-Journal reports. Starbucks manager Angie Cato tells the paper that she offers free drip coffee to police officers when they're on the clock. The paper says: Not only did employees complain about Garvin's demands for free passion tea and coffee laced with white chocolate mocha syrup, but they also said Garvin would come into the store and bypass other customers standing in line and expect to be served first. 'Always . . . always would go to the front of the line,' Cato told Daytona Beach police investigators who questioned her about Garvin's behavior. 'And (he) would expect us to be able to read his mind and put the coffee down in front of him.' In one particular exchange between Cato and Garvin, the manager claims the lieutenant said: 'I've been coming here for years and I've been getting whatever I want and I'm the difference between you getting a two-minute response time -- if you needed a little help -- or a 15-minute response time.'"

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/07/fla-cop-canned.html

Quote :

"'I think it's sad, Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood said in a phone interview. 'First it makes us, in the policing profession look like a bunch of clowns for a free cup of coffee? He makes 80-90 thousand dollars a year. Why?' The chief says after Lt. Garvin was confronted with the allegations he demanded a polygraph test and failed. A disappointed chief who says he had no other choice but to fire the veteran cop. 'I'm personally hurt by this,' the chief said. 'I trusted him, and I personally put him in charge, I skipped over other officers for his promotion.'"

http://tinyurl.com/6c3dgw

Un-fucking-believable.

[Edited on July 21, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2008 11:24:46 PM

^
A sad case indeed. But of course not all cops act like this.

7/21/2008 11:37:13 PM

I saw a police officer walk into a store and take two cokes. The clerk said 'sir!' as the officer steps out the door but did not look back. The clerk seemed to not be that surprised but a little disappointed. Afterall, what could he do beyond chalking it up to the cost of doing business in Raleigh?

7/21/2008 11:37:33 PM

Thats not cool at all, no cop should demand free stuff

7/21/2008 11:44:55 PM

^^ If that shop owner didn't file a complaint, I don't have much sympathy. Of course, the incident never should've happened to begin with.

^

I've come for my due and proper.

--Happy Jack

7/21/2008 11:58:44 PM

An unfortunate two-fer:

Dog's Death Dogs Traffic Cop
Police Said Officer Handled Situation Poorly

Quote :

"Though Stephens' supervisors found him not guilty of misconduct, they did agree he handled the situation poorly. 'His world was collapsing. And what the officer says to him, basically, is, "I don't care,"' said San Marcos police department chief Howard Williams."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5598075

Police officer charged with making fake money

Quote :

"Raleigh police and agents with the U.S. Secret Service charged a Holly Springs police officer last night with manufacturing phony money, authorities reported. Bruce Renard Green, 27, of 805 Nightshade Way in Raleigh, has been charged with one count each of uttering a forged instrument, forgery of notes, checks and other securities, and felony obtaining property by false pretenses, according to records filed at the City-County Bureau of Identification. Green started with Holly Springs police department in April, 2006, and his salary was $40,588. Mark Andrews, a town spokesman, said Green resigned from the force today. He turned in his badge and gun last night. In addition to his current charges, Green could face federal charges."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1174660.html

This guy allegedly used counterfeit $20 bills to pay for "escort services." Sweet Jesus.

8/19/2008 5:30:37 AM

bump per request

7/31/2009 10:13:01 PM

Ohio cops arrested in Parker surrogate case

Quote :

"ST. CLAIRSVILLE, OHIO -- Two eastern Ohio police chiefs being investigated for allegedly breaking into a home to dig for celebrity tabloid material have been arrested on undisclosed charges. Belmont County jail personnel confirm that Martins Ferry Police Chief Barry Carpenter and Bridgeport Police Chief Chad Dojack were booked Wednesday night and released. The jail would not release charges. A special prosecutor has said he was looking into allegations that the chiefs illegally entered the home of a woman carrying twins for actors Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick in May."

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Today/Entertainment/2009/07/31/10322461-sun.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Officers record themselves framing a woman for causing a crash

Quote :

"Four Hollywood, Florida, police officers and a crime scene technician are suspended with pay -- and probably contemplating career changes -- after being recorded by a police dashboard camera conspiring to frame a civilian driver for a crash. Alexandra Torrensvilas was arrested for driving under the influence only after a police officer rear-ended her at a traffic light, and that officer and his colleagues openly discussed, within range of the camera's audio pickup, doctoring their stories and the evidence to blame the woman for the collision. One of the officers can be heard saying, 'I don't want to make things up ever, because it's wrong, but if I need to bend it a little bit to protect a cop, I'm gonna.' Also recorded was, 'We'll do a little Walt Disney to protect the cop because it wouldn't have mattered because she is drunk anyway.'"

http://tinyurl.com/ld2lk8

7/31/2009 11:23:51 PM

Quote :

"Belmont County jail personnel confirm that Martins Ferry Police Chief Barry Carpenter and Bridgeport Police Chief Chad Dojack were booked Wednesday night and released. The jail would not release charges."

But of course, if you or I get charged with some phony bullshit because a cop wants to make sure he doesn't get in trouble for something or because he is a shitbag human being that uses his position of power to rape you, the jail would probably release the charges without hesitation.

The part where the charges get dismissed rarely makes it to the news though. So, people in such situations often go down in history as a criminal even though the only real criminal(s) was/were the cop(s) that fucked them over.

8/1/2009 11:07:06 AM

I just wanted to say in here that I had a really positive experience tonight with some cops. Two grown-ass men literally got into a fistfight over seats in a sold out movie tonight and Cary PD were some fucking champs at handling the situation. GG, dudes.

8/1/2009 11:33:13 PM

Cary PD.....reallly? Naw Im just joking, Cary is cool, they hold it down. I love my Cary brothers

8/1/2009 11:45:14 PM

in your first superlong post, megaloman, you make quite a few excellent points ( and quite eloquently i might add.)

but police being "useless, obnoxious cunts." is a fantastic oversimplification to the point of being straight up false.

copping is still a blue-collar job and they do a fuckload of work you and i dont see and resist even more temptations than your average joe has to by several orders of magnitude

people fuck up though, and, thats what the legal system if for: for when people fuck up.

My opinion of police would increase to roughly 100% approval if they could simply find a way to be accountable for their actions like the rest of us

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 5:10 PM. Reason : did i spell grimmace right]

8/2/2009 5:10:20 PM

8/2/2009 6:00:49 PM

Another case of cops being cops. You know how they do

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/mom_in_minivan_tasered_in_traf.html

This is what happens when you give the dumb extraordinary powers over others

8/13/2009 10:42:22 PM

Quote :

"This is what happens when you give the dumb extraordinary powers over others"

The dumb already have these extraordinary powers by sheer strength of numbers

So it's more like we give them greater legitimacy.

8/14/2009 2:20:04 AM

Not to fully justify what that guy did, but she should not have gotten out of the car. That is a no no on a traffic stop. Stay in the car unless told to get out.

8/14/2009 1:25:44 PM

If someone simply gets out of the car and nothing more, its not a blank check for a cop to do anything he wants.

Dude just realized she really wasn't on the phone, and was too stubborn to admit his mistake, so he made up some other charge she couldn't prove wrong....I'd be pissed too.

8/14/2009 2:10:26 PM

No its not a blank check to do anything, it is allowed to order them back into the car however. If they continue to refuse to get back into the car, then an escalation could very well be justified. Getting out of the car on a traffic stop is an officer safety and driver safety issue. stay in the car. court is where you can argue about whether the ticket was justified or not

8/14/2009 2:48:31 PM

Quote :

"It ain't [America] no more, okay?"

--Officer Wesley Cheeks Jr., Reston, VA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIKPKjl0-pg

8/31/2009 5:52:16 PM

Get real.

8/31/2009 5:55:42 PM

^ About what? Do you support police telling citizens "It ain't [America] no more"? Yes or no?

Or are you just trying to derail yet another thread with your inane trolling?

8/31/2009 6:10:50 PM

I don't take anything serious, especially something without context, that refers to the healthcare debate as Obama Deathcare.

8/31/2009 6:15:35 PM

http://reason.com/blog/show/135952.html

Cop pulls over woman for DUI. Cop arrests woman. Cop "interrogates" woman". Cop turns off camera. Cop turns camera back on, woman is lying in pool of blood. Cop suspended pending investigation. Fast foward 1.5 years, cop is reinstated with full back-pay and benefits because a polygraph operator failed to record the results of a polygraph test. JUSTICE IS SERVED.

9/9/2009 10:56:57 PM

lol, the cops lawyer said she "tripped and fell while the camera was off"

9/10/2009 9:18:18 AM

Are cops that bored where they have nothing better to do than harass motorists for stupid crap like not wearing a seatbelt or talking on the cellphone.

You would think that in NY or anywhere else a motorist swerving lanes, cutting people off, or cutting the median all while being inattentive due to talking on the cell phone and sipping on their latte could be cited for the broad citation of Reckless Driving. If its someone cruising the speed limit on I40 in the right lane answering a business call briefly or driving down Western calling their friend real fast b.c they need directions than who gives a fuck.

I would be real pissed off if talking on the cell is banned in NC b.c of a few yuppie soccer moms or sorostitutes who use driving as their chance to carry on a 20 min gossip fest.

Quote :

"The speeding accusation: going 50 mph in a 45-mph zone."

ZOMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN. what was this woman thinking going 50 in a 45.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 10:47 AM. Reason : a]

9/10/2009 10:46:36 AM

bump

7/17/2010 6:21:37 AM

Katrina Cover-Up: Cops May Face Death Penalty
Four New Orleans Police Officers Indicted in Post-Hurricane Katrina Bridge Shootings
July 14, 2010

Quote :

"Four police officers, charged with shooting and killing two unarmed civilians on a bridge in the days after Hurricane Katrina, could face the death penalty. Those four officers and two others are accused of gunning down citizens and trying to cover it up. Five other former police officers have already pleaded guilty to helping cover up the killings, bringing the total to 11 charged so far. The entire New Orleans police department is under investigation, stemming from allegations of misconduct."

Quote :

"In the chaotic days after the August 2005 storm, a family tried to cross the Danziger Bridge to get to the supermarket for food and supplies, and two other men were on the bridge on their way to check on their brother's dental office when, justice officials allege, the shootings took place. The FBI said New Orleans police showed up, responding to reports of gunfire, and opened fire with assault rifles and a shotgun. When it was over, two unarmed citizens were killed and four wounded. One of the victims was a severely mentally disabled man, who was allegedly shot in the back as he tried to flee."

http://tinyurl.com/2dqmla4

WTF were those cops thinking? Death penalty? Yes? No?

7/17/2010 6:42:15 AM

Absolutely. Any time a cop is actually found guilty of a crime they should automatically receive the maximum penalty for said crime. It won't be much of a deterrent considering how difficult it is to even have the DA charge a cop, but it might help.

7/17/2010 12:23:48 PM

Expect a bunch of arizona stories in a month or so. Don't expect these knuckle draggers to be able to tell the large legal population of arizona hispanics from the illegal ones.


Power corrupts. Power corrupts idiots even faster.

[Edited on July 17, 2010 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2010 12:59:21 PM

Quote :

"Any time a cop is actually found guilty of a crime they should automatically receive the maximum penalty for said crime."

I agree with this, but I don't like that the maximum is the death penalty in this case. Life without parole, fine, but I'd rather only see the death penalty in incidents of mass murder and the killing of innocent children (and of course, everything has conditions... some restrictions may apply. I am by no means trying to make an absolute sweeping generalization as to who should be put to death, just emphasizing that I don't think this particular incident warrants it).

7/17/2010 1:03:37 PM

if you are looking to find a corrupt cop, here is what you do:

1) call the police station.
2) it really doesnt matter who answers
3) profit


in other news, while we are all wanting to send aid to Hati, the New Oleans PD has pledged 25 cops to go and beat up the survivors

7/17/2010 1:29:12 PM

My gut reaction is to say sure, give the Katrina cops the needle. But upon thinking about it, the immediate aftermath of Katrina had to be one of the most chaotic, stressful times in the history of the country. We've had breakdowns in law and order before, certainly, but not coupled with a massive natural disaster that effective demolished and shut down an entire region.

Unless these guys have a history of excessive violence, I figure the unique nature of their situation probably had more to do with the incident than anything. As a result it seems unlikely that they would kill again if they ever got out of prison, so by my own standard for applying the death penalty I don't think it's warranted here. Life in prison would be adequate, and if somehow they ever do get out legally I think it's pretty obvious that we won't have to worry about them being cops again.

---

I've had mixed experiences with cops. It seems that when something minor is going on, they have a habit of blowing things out of proportion, and many haven't accepted even the slightest and most civil disagreement (such as one time when I had to demonstrate to a cop how what he thought were drugs were not drugs; he got very angry and decided to find something else to ticket us for)

However, both times I've felt like I was in legitimate danger and called them out, the RPD has been prompt, professional, and effective.

7/17/2010 4:00:46 PM

Of course, the really troublesome thing with this Katrina business is the cover-up. They coulda just confessed and explained themselves and gotten like two to four years...

But nooooo...these idiots thought they could lie their way out of two dead bodies and four people riddled with bullets.

People make mistakes. And sometimes we make horrible ones that will haunt us forever...deception can't change that.

7/17/2010 5:04:16 PM

I have to go with the death penalty on this one. First, it's not a single person but a whole group of folks that were shot up, resulting in the deaths of two of them. Second, you had the cover up which doesn't help anything. I understand that the situation probably made them panic a bit given that the entire NOPD disintegrated around them, but this was a group of four officers and two others armed with assault rifles apparently facing what apparently sounds like a group of six or seven unarmed civilians on a bridge (please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I gleaned from this article). It just seems like complete overkill to me.

7/18/2010 2:37:43 PM

This is what I'm talking about when I use "jackbooted thugs":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSzAHM97LJQ

The guy's a 64-year-old cancer survivor with a heart condition. Note well that the cops also shock him again while he's on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind his back.

Here's another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxH1CnYhd8

The guy just yells some stuff at cops from his own property and gets arrested.

Admittedly, these guys didn't handle their encounters with officers well, but they didn't deserve the treatment they got either. Cops often forget that people have free speech rights and other rights, especially within their own homes.

9/3/2010 4:22:25 AM

With respect to the guy getting tased; did he have a right to be tased? Yes, he was told to place his hands behind his back (an arrest) and he resisted. While not assaultive, its still a resist and under state law (if this occurred in NC) that officer had the right to affect the arrest.

The second scenario is a little bit of a gray area; that guy was being an ass but sometimes you have to let it slide (only to an extent given the place, and who you are dealing with). You would really have to articulate why you contacted that man, investigated and made an arrest. I thank you have enough here, but is it worth it?

9/3/2010 6:17:59 PM

Yeah, you're right, aside from the fact that it was not a lawful arrest and the police had no right to enter his home. The city (and therefore the tax payers) are going to foot a hell of bill when this goes to court. Sadly, the officers in this case will probably be placed on paid administrative leave at most.

The second case, sure the guy is a dick, but that's not illegal. Again, police had no right to arrest.

Public servants need to be held accountable to the public, that's the bottom line.

9/3/2010 9:07:41 PM

Where is your base for saying that in the above 2 scenarios there is no right to arrest? In the second scenario there could be an Arkansas state law the prohibits third party recording or his actions might fall under a disorderly conduct statute. In the first scenario I don't see a back story so the police most likely had a right to be there. If someone calls 911, LE has the right to check the welfare of the occupants of the residence.

Again, I'm not saying that the above two videos are examples of stellar police work but given there context I see nothing wrong.

9/4/2010 6:54:11 AM