Quote :

"^ 1 and 3 are absolutely ridiculous. do some research retard. 2 however could be argued in favor of your opinion "

You are the one taking issue with my opinion. You show me your "research". Why should I be the one to do research to prove myself wrong?

And I love how you call me a retard because you don't agree with me. You have no idea what I do or don't know. I could have "researched" the same way as you and reached a different conclusion. Would I still be a retard?

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM. Reason : quote]

6/5/2008 1:06:53 PM

I'm not calling you retarded because I disagree with you, I'm calling you retarded because calling Obama a racist is fucking ridiculous and you know it. The same goes for saying he is naive when it comes to foreign policy. What you really mean by this is that his foreign policy views are different from yours and you therefore want to brand him as ineffectual when it comes to foreign relations.

6/5/2008 1:22:31 PM

Quote :

"I'm calling you retarded because calling Obama a racist is fucking ridiculous and you know it."

He attended a church for 20 years with a preacher who spewed all sorts of anti-White filth. He could have gone to church elsewhere but he didn't. This leads me to beleive he at least somewhat believed what his preacher was saying.

Why do I think this? I'm a member of the Episcopal church. When the gay bishop thing went down in the summer of '03 the more conservative members of the church went apeshit. Many left my church because our priest agreed with the gay priest becoming a bishop and stated as much. That's right, most of the people who were opposed to the priest's opinion/viewpoint chose to leave the church they had been attending for the majority of their adult lives, rather than listen to a priest who they disagreed with on what they saw to be as such an important issue. Why didn't Obama do the same? He either didn't disagree with what his preacher was saying, or he didn't see it as that big of an issue. Either one of these things I find disturbing and somewhat racist.



[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 1:58 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/5/2008 1:40:36 PM

For those with some time to kill, here is Michelle Obama's thesis on "Racial Divide" from Princeton:

(in 4 parts)

http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf
http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_26-501.pdf
http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_51-751.pdf
http://dyn.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_76-981.pdf


She has the writing skills of a fucking 6th grader. I can't believe she got a free ride on the taxpayers' dime.

6/5/2008 1:44:15 PM

Yet somehow she's done much more with her life than you will ever do. Feel great that you're such a hate-filled piece of flesh that won't ever achieve anything, Rat.

6/5/2008 1:47:44 PM

cherokee, I think you misread my Paul a loon thing. He looks SO much different compared to todays republicans when that is exactly what republicans USED to believe in.

I think the republicans are the new democrat, and the dems are now socialists.

Yeah, obama has been revitalizing the ask not. If revitalizing means reversing, then Ill agree.

Ask not what your country can do for you... well here comes free healthcare, mortgage, creditcard bailout, free college, no taxes on seniors who make 50k or less. yeah, lots of similarities. He has a govt first attitude.

I too can see how one can question obama on race issues. His associations are a direct contridiction of what he says. I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss it. Supports affirmative action. NO, how did he put it. "its not fair that my daughters get an advantage over others... .but i support affirmative action.' hahah, typical doublespeak.

6/5/2008 1:52:28 PM

I don't know about McCains wife, but if his wife spouted the BS Michelle Obama does, I'd probably be less likely to vote for him.

She gave a speech stating "we were struggling to figure out how we would save for our kids" when she alone made $121,910 in 2004 and $316,962 in 2005.

You have to be a complete idiot to "struggle" financially if you're making over 100K.

6/5/2008 2:03:34 PM

Chicago--Ivy League Education

6/5/2008 2:04:51 PM

Quote :

"She gave a speech stating "we were struggling to figure out how we would save for our kids" when she alone made $121,910 in 2004 and $316,962 in 2005. "

This was her pandering to a large portion of his supporters, many of whom really do struggle to save for their kids. Nothing more, nothing less. It's why I get sick of everyone acting like Obama is this new breed of truthful, altruistic politician. He panders and flops just as much as the rest of them. He just hasn't been around the crap long enough to start reaking of it.

6/5/2008 2:08:11 PM

Wow.

You're attacking the guy's wife.

Way to be a man.

6/5/2008 2:31:55 PM

imo it seems like most republicans have made up their minds and theres no way they are voting for obama...even the ones that are like "welllllllllllllllllll idkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....i just cant decide"...yeah those people are voting for mccain too

6/5/2008 2:35:19 PM

lol @ all the comments you made about hillary && bill. x2 standard? if she would stay out of the race (which she won't), i'll leave this alone.

i'll be waiting for your comments in the next months when you are busting your ass trying to convince her to gtfo when she fucks up his campaign

she's your next hillary clinton. this is exactly how hillary was 8 years ago. lol

6/5/2008 2:36:37 PM

^ So she'll be running for president eventually? That'll be interesting to see.

6/5/2008 2:38:53 PM

^not a doubt in my mind she'd be up to doing that. she practically -will- be the president. she won't be picking out new curtains for the oval office i'm sure. looking back historically lots of wives have had a huge part in democrat presidents decisions.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 2:39:44 PM

And Enrico Fermi's wife played a large role in influencing his decisions about the Manhattan Project.

6/5/2008 2:46:24 PM

Quote :

"Wow. You're attacking the guy's wife. Way to be a man. "

I really hope you're either referring to Rat or paroding Obama's "Leave my wife out of this" interview.

6/5/2008 2:50:26 PM

A) Yes, there is a double standard. You don't mess with a guy's wife if you ever intend on calling yourself a man.

B) That doesn't even matter, though, because I actually didn't bring Bill into any discussions of Hillary.

C) Disregarding all of that, there's no way you can compare the Clinton family with the Obama family.



^ it was directed at Rat

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 2:52:13 PM

dont question the wife? WTF she is out campaigning.

6/5/2008 2:56:16 PM

Quote :

"You don't mess with a guy's wife if you ever intend on calling yourself a man. "

True, but she didn't say this in passing. She said it while she was campaigning for her husband. Anything she says while formally promoting her husband is fair game.

If he's concerned with his image and wants to get his image across, not hers, he should approve all her speeches beforehand.

6/5/2008 3:00:36 PM

She's just another campaign advisor of his out proclaiming the Bible of Obama who happens to be female, who happens to be black, and who happens to married to him.

I know Boone; question anything from her makes me a racist sexist domestic abuser.

lol

6/5/2008 3:06:04 PM

Wait, she wrote her thesis while on the campaign trail for her husband?

Was her thesis on time travel?

6/5/2008 3:11:09 PM

^ While I understand your point and agree with it for the most part, her thesis does provide insight into her idealogy regarding race. And because she and Obama are married, one would think their opinions do not conflict much on the issue of race.

6/5/2008 3:14:29 PM

guilt.

by.

association.




Is it that many of you don't understand it, or that you just choose to ignore it?

6/5/2008 3:19:16 PM

attacking her wife. lol. being against freedom of information sounds like the root of your problem mr.

oh wait socialism is about censorship. my bad.

6/5/2008 3:19:35 PM

the same people whining about guilt by association will claim that McCain is Bush. kinda funny i think


Boone i think what baffles people who at least try to be open minded about politics, is that any time criticism is directed towards obama they want to whine about it or run to a talking point. "politics of old" "guilty by association" instead of actually addressing the point. Not that you care where people are coming from, I thought I might try to explain it to you.

6/5/2008 3:23:41 PM

if he feels he has the right to convince me that his wifes racial hate connections won't deter me and others from voting for her husband, and also believes that hiding that information does us any good, then he has a couple nuts and bolts loose in the ole brain cap. or maybe his IQ dropped to the low 20's for the day. not sure.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 3:27:41 PM

Quote :

"guilt. by. association. Is it that many of you don't understand it, or that you just choose to ignore it?"

Could you really marry someone and stay married to them, or listen to someone preach your God's word for 20 years, if their opinion were very different from your own on an issue you hold near and dear?

I'm not a racist, nor could I marry one. I get annoyed when my friends make black jokes, even when I know they have no malice toward African-Americans. I would think most people who aren't racist would feel the same way. You seem to be suggesting the opposite. Plz to explain why you think this would be the case.

6/5/2008 3:29:46 PM

Quote :

"the same people whining about guilt by association will claim that McCain is Bush. kinda funny i think"

This is why I honestly believe that you people just don't understand the concept.

Obama compares McCain to Bush because McCain shares many significant attributes with Bush

You all claim that Obama shares many attributes with Wright because he associated with him.


Do you see the difference?

Quote :

"Could you really marry someone and stay married to them, or listen to someone preach your God's word for 20 years, if their opinion were very different from your own on an issue you hold near and dear?"

Yes

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 3:32:23 PM

^funny how both mccain and obama lie to try conceal these believes, obama can "resign" from his church, but mccain can't "divorce" himself from bush


i know you like to think obama doesn't hold the same beliefs the rev wright does. well thats just stupid of you boone. keep that up. it'll take you far.

6/5/2008 3:35:35 PM

funny how you still don't get this very simple concept.

or are you just trolling?

I thought the whole idea behind that was to make the other guy look stupid?

6/5/2008 3:38:03 PM

I'd say many more people leave church's due to personal conflicts (I know my parents have, and other people they know have as well, multiple times) than completely divorce themselves from previously held political/moral ideologies (Huffington being the only person off the top of my head to have pulled this off).

6/5/2008 3:38:06 PM

Hey Rat have you read Obama's books

6/5/2008 3:40:03 PM

McCain, Obama, you guys certainly expend a great deal of energy squabling over which mass-murdering psychopath it would be better to be plundered and enslaved by.

6/5/2008 3:41:08 PM

Quote :

"Obama compares McCain to Bush because McCain shares many significant attributes with Bush You all claim that Obama shares many attributes with Wright because he associated with him. "

The only difference is one relationship has been in the public spotlight for everyone to see and the other has not.

And I guess since you answered my question with a yes, one can assume you would feel right at home in a church with a preacher who espouses views on race that could be considered KKK lite.

6/5/2008 3:42:13 PM

holy crap, really?

McCain and Bush actually do share many attributes, thus the comparisons are made.

There is nothing to indicate that Obama shares attributes with Wright other than association. And guilt by association is an accepted logical fallacy for reasons obvious to anyone with half a brain.


How much more can I distill this extremely simple concept?


[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Guilt_by_association_as_an_ad_hominem_fallacy]

6/5/2008 3:45:58 PM

^SO WHY THE FUCK ARE AGAINST THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION SHARING? IS THIS A NEW DEMOCRAT IDEAL?? DID I MISS SOMETHING? WHATS WRONG WITH SHARING HER VIEWPOINTS ON PDF IF SHE'S GOING TO SPOUT THEM AT THE PULPIT ALL DAY ANYWAYS?

Quote :

"Hey Rat have you read Obama's books"

yes i read the one that had the picture of his grandparents on the cover


i was honestly going to vote for him b4 i read that book. i recommend it to anyone who is dead set on voting for the guy based on his speeches.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 3:49 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 3:48:27 PM

I'm calling BS on him reading it.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 3:56 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 3:50:46 PM

Well that's pretty much the opposite of what I've heard from everyone else that's read it, what exactly did you dislike so much?

6/5/2008 3:53:45 PM

I would have to have common sense.

6/5/2008 3:54:19 PM

haha, yeah.

do tell.

what in particular did you not like about it?

6/5/2008 3:57:35 PM

his muslim grandfather and his dad.

total shitbags. not the kind of direct links a president of the greatest nation on earth has.

utter scumbags. blatent racists. in fact his arabic grand-dad didn't want his son obama marrying outside of their religion, let alone marrying a white hoar.

go read it. for real.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 4:06 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 4:06:07 PM

Quote :

"holy crap, really? McCain and Bush actually do share many attributes, thus the comparisons are made. There is nothing to indicate that Obama shares attributes with Wright other than association. And guilt by association is an accepted logical fallacy for reasons obvious to anyone with half a brain. How much more can I distill this extremely simple concept? "

Yes Boone. You're absolutely right. It's called guilt by association. Do you want a cookie?

Not all "guilt by association" situations are off the mark though. If you're looking for drugs, but you don't know where to get them, who do you ask? Your pothead friend. Why? Because he does drugs.

And speaking from personal experience, I can't stand attending a church that is far out of step with what I believe. When I go to a church for the first time and I hear "blah, blah, blah, you're going to hell," I automatically tune the speaker out and find another church. Something so far out of step with my personal beliefs detracts from my reason for being there (becoming closer to God). I'm just wondering why the same isn't the case for Obama. If he really didn't believe what Wright was espousing, why wouldn't he find another church? Why put yourself through the hassle of hearing a bunch of rhetoric when you can go to the church down the street and hear the same message without the fluff? And Obama's a smart guy. Surely he would have figured his affiliation with Wright would be brought up in the event he ran for higher public office. Why would he want to stick to a church he thought might hurt his image, unless he really felt a connection there? Assuming he did feel a connection there, I can't believe he would be able to do so in spite of his preacher's views on race (for reasons stated above).

6/5/2008 4:15:50 PM

I think the debates this fall will prove Obama's naivety regarding foreign policy.

McCain cant wait for that discussion to start.

6/5/2008 4:20:28 PM

^^^I hate to keep talking about guilt by association but in this case it's even worse, because you can't pick your family. I had a great uncle who would ask me if I had a new girlfriend whenever I saw him, and if I said yes, he'd ask "Is she black?"

It makes absolutely no sense to judge a man by his parents and grandparents. And it gives you even more credibility to call his mom a "white hoar" too

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 4:21:01 PM

Quote :

"It makes absolutely no sense to judge a man by his parents"

President George W. Bush

6/5/2008 4:23:35 PM

Quote :

"Not all "guilt by association" situations are off the mark though. If you're looking for drugs, but you don't know where to get them, who do you ask? Your pothead friend. Why? Because he does drugs."

Many logical fallacies can provide correct answers. Broken clocks are right twice a day, too.

That doesn't mean they should be used (fallacies or broken clocks).

Especially in this circumstance, when all you have is association. There's no other evidence to indicate he shares any opinions with Wright.


And regarding all the personal church stuff-- heck, I'd endure a crazy-ass speech every year or so if the church had other things going for it. I wouldn't just abandon my community because I disagreed with 1% of the sermons

6/5/2008 4:46:50 PM

^ Sure, but a sermon even once a year that lambasted whites for being the scum of the earth or the like would make any sermons with "God loves everyone" as the message seem disingenuous, don't you think? And if Wright really is as virulent in his views of whites as he is made out to be, one would think this rhetoric would pervade his messages on unrelated topics as well.

Quote :

"Especially in this circumstance, when all you have is association. There's no other evidence to indicate he shares any opinions with Wright."

And let's be honest, they don't call it the court of public opinion for nothing. One doesn't really need evidence, just a hunch.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 4:57 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/5/2008 4:55:43 PM

you are wasting your time statered. He has his eyes shut so tight he is starting to see light. Your arguement doesnt matter to him. Just let him be.

6/5/2008 4:57:33 PM

I have gone to the same church for the past 20 years. I share absolutely zero opinions with the pastor. I go for other reasons.

6/5/2008 4:58:28 PM

^ Yeah, but do any of your pastor's views downright offend you?

6/5/2008 4:59:50 PM