^ That was already pointed out a few posts up. I was impressed with Obama's take:

http://atheistmedia.blogspot.com/2008/06/barak-obama-on-religion-and-public-life.html

6/9/2008 12:12:15 AM

^My bad

I guess I just couldn't bring myself to click on the Atheist Media Blog

6/9/2008 12:13:53 AM

Understandable. It hardly sounds like a reputable source, but it led to some interesting points of view from the our prospective candidates, so perhaps the bias can be forgiven.

6/9/2008 12:18:17 AM

honestly, i think both McCain and Obama are pandering to their base to make sure they're on board come November. i don't think either of them sit on the far end of the seesaw. they're way too intelligent for that shit.

they're both centrists, have a good head on their shoulders, and mean well. i think the country is in good hands no matter which of them wins.

6/9/2008 12:20:18 AM

i think i just poeted ^ that in the wrong thread...it doesn't matter at this point

6/9/2008 12:20:49 AM

Quote :

"^ That was already pointed out a few posts up. I was impressed with Obama's take:"

uh oh, what's this? Reason, candor, logic, eloquence?
yeah, Obama's screwed..... McCain's rambling, bumbling response is much more inline with what the people of this country like to hear

6/9/2008 7:48:44 AM

I cant wait until Black people run the country.

at this point I just like watching people get upset.

6/9/2008 8:26:03 AM

Of all the possible founding fathers to choose from,

Rat chooses Thomas Jefferson to brand as an advocate of "Christian principles."

6/9/2008 10:24:39 AM

I can agree that an anti-christian movement has arisen, but i believe that is in large part due the hypocrisies witnessed by the hands of those who claim to be the most adamant followers of christianity. What people witness in modern days is reinforced by the historical mistakes made and paints a picture that not much has changed and no lessons learned since the early days of christian dominance aroudn the world. I feel some some lessons have been learned, and that in some ways the push back on christianity is an over reactive action.

christianity does have many good principles, but until the people who claim more publicly to be the most devout of christians truly lead by example, and become more understanding/less aggressive in terms of the morality of others then the push back on Christianity will not end.

6/9/2008 11:15:16 AM

6/9/2008 11:22:08 AM

Quote :

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."

Guess who said those famous words?

ALL ABOARD THE FAILBOAT

TOOT TOOT

6/9/2008 11:27:31 AM

"religulous"
http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/religulous/

6/9/2008 11:28:05 AM

From the Treaty of Tripoli, written by Thomas Jefferson:

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen..."

6/9/2008 11:35:54 AM

this nation was created by people wanting religious freedom

they had that in mind when they went ahead threw religious freedom right at the top of our rights.

6/9/2008 11:46:31 AM

actually i think people came here from england in order to practice their choice of religion more freely, but that does not mean that the nation was founded on religious freedom. the nation was founded on freedom of men from tyrannical governments, and that their right be free individuals who are in many ways self governing individuals remain certain and paramount.

6/9/2008 12:04:22 PM

this land was colonized in the pursuit of gold and trade

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason : not nation]

6/9/2008 12:09:19 PM

they were trying to get some of dat curry

6/9/2008 12:25:39 PM

Quote :

"this nation was created by people wanting religious freedom"

Exactly. So I wish Republicans would stop trying to undo that.

6/9/2008 12:27:20 PM

okey dokey. now that we all understand and agree upon that: feel free to get to the meat of the thread and answer a couple of those questions for those that haven't


i along with all the other conservatives are trying to get to the bottom of your hatred against america and are wondering why you haven't left the country if you find nothing great about it.

6/9/2008 12:57:06 PM

Rat, you sound like matthew farrell

6/9/2008 1:09:58 PM

god this thread is stupid.

Rat is the new Salisburyboy -- not racist, but just for simply dragging down the overall IQ of the forum by several points with his consistently retarded posts.

6/9/2008 2:40:52 PM

your still joe_schmoe and you always will be. i doubt anybody would ever be able to replace you

6/9/2008 2:44:15 PM

Read the story about the differences between Mccain and Obama on Yahoo frontpage. You will soon realize Obama stands for everything wrong with America.

6/9/2008 2:45:21 PM

you're going to have to be more specific because i'm not seeing this everything thats wrong image that you are. please respond with examples and specifics of how those are whats wrong with america, if capable.

6/9/2008 4:14:12 PM

Yeah, I skimmed it.

Not seeing how he epitomizes all that is wrong with America.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 4:17 PM. Reason : i]

6/9/2008 4:17:11 PM

Why do I sign into TWW? I don't have any real desire to bash These Here United States of America. I'm mostly satisfied - mostly - with it, and don't have any real motivation to go elsewhere. BUT...

Quote :

"Each of us here whether you were born or moved here lives in the "greatest" country that has ever existed in the recorded history of the earth."

Okay, my usual problems with blind patriotism aside, I really hate this "greatest country...EVER!!!" thing that we all seem obliged to constantly point out. When you drive in certain parts of downtown Durham, there are all these signs that say "This is a Gun Free Zone." They are, coincidentally, where most of shootings in Durham take place. If you have to advertise that "This is a Gun Free Zone," it's probably not one. Our gun violence compared to the rest of the civilized world is just one reason that constantly having to advertise "greatest country...EVER!!!" might mean that we know we're not.

Quote :

"Now, that term "greatest" might have a lot of different meanings to each of you(positive or negative), but it's true, we top the charts in a lot of ways. What does it mean to you?"

To me? It means that the greatest percentage of the country's populace has the greater quality of life. Sadly, we're up there, but definitely not the top.

Quote :

"Do you feel the past 232 years have been good to the peoples of this planet?"

Depends on which peoples. Which section of the world? Because some of them have just been pissed all over, not just by These Here United States of America, during the past 232 years. Are you just talking about Americans? Even then, which ones? Rich white guys? Poor minorities? Women? Because it's definitely rocking the niceness more to some than others.

Quote :

"Do you feel we are heading in the right direction?"

We're seeing the erosion of human rights, the erosion of the right to privacy, the erosion of religious freedom, using far more of the world's resources than is proportional and having the nerve to be surprised when other countries on the rise start taking a piece of it and drive up our costs, a doctrine of preemptive war and occupation, our international stature get killed along with our dollar, the tanking of our economy, the dropping of several treaties meant to make the planet a safer and better place, political discourse focused more on lapel pins, bowling scores, and age than on anything that actually matters, and American Idol is still the biggest thing that ever happens in a given year. So I'd say we're definitely due for a change of course.

Quote :

"Have we as a country learned from our mistakes?"

No. We freed the slaves, but still go out of our way to keep black people marginalized. We gave women the right to vote, but have the nerve to be surprised when one of them wants to actually run for the highest office we have - so we slam her with hilarious bits about ball-busting, pants suits, and crying(I say that as a guy who had Clinton 5th on his depth chart when the original field of Dems was announced). We've screwed ourselves by relying on oil and leaving our consumption of it unchecked while not researching alternative means of energy, and the only answer people seem to have is "drill more." We destabilized a volatile region in the middle east without giving so much as a passing thought to how we'd put it back together and a lot of people seem eager to vote for a guy who wants to go ahead and do the same in Iran. No, we haven't learned a damn thing.[/quote]

Quote :

"Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles?"

It upsets me that people think this in spite of...what's it called?...HISTORY. It upsets me that people use this idea as an excuse to jam a bastardized version of my faith down people's throats while having the sheer audacity to yell "religious freedom!!!" at the top of their lungs. It upsets me that, because of this, people view my faith - which I hold very dear and personally - as a collection of morons and jackasses who are uncomfortable with anything that doesn't fit into their 1800's world view. It upsets me that Jesus' teachings could so plainly tell us to look after the less fortunate, but a good portion of those who "share" my faith ignore this in favor of crusading against buttsex and evolution. It upsets me that I sit next to the people who have done this to my faith on certain Sundays and hear the same readings, sing the same hymns, recite the same creeds as they do and still feel as though we're worshiping two different gods.

Quote :

"I'd like to hear your thoughts about this nation and if you plan on living in it and supporting it or if you plan on leaving to another one for various reasons."

I do my best to support it, though it's been hard. I still think that the model that started These Here United States of America is solid. But there's a reason that the founding fathers, who we love to think were so damn perfect, made the Constitution amendable. And it wasn't to remove people's rights. It was to allow our country to evolve with the world.

Quote :

"[obligatory AMERICA FUCK YEH]"

You get that the song in question there was supposed to be a joke, right?

Quote :

"Thank you all."

Oh no, thank you for making a half-assed generalization about "you liberals" designed to troll out angry responses such as the one I just finished. Thank you further for ignoring the responses to your questions by focusing only on the people who responded to your poorly phrased and equally poorly researched history. It's been a good time.

6/9/2008 6:07:22 PM

Do you feel the past 232 years have been good to the peoples of this planet?
--Overall, yes.

Do you feel we are heading in the right direction?
--Overall, yes.

Have we as a country learned from our mistakes?
--Some.

Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles?
--It wasn't...

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this nation and if you plan on living in it and supporting it or if you plan on leaving to another one for various reasons.
--Only way I'd ever move out of this country is if our rights were trashed completely. If that were the case, New Zealand, one of the Scandinavian countries and Canada are my top choices.

6/11/2008 12:38:59 AM