you've already admitted defeat.

Quote :

"so you can, or can't show that the renovations are whats responsible for the increased power bill? otherwise your logic from step 2 to step 3 is completely fucked"

Quote :

"i can't you know what? neither can you so what is your point? "

but its fun to watch you flap around trying to divert attention.

please continue

6/18/2008 5:28:43 PM

Quote :

"you're saying the price of power has been constant?"

no thats not what i'm saying...you know that question seems like its phrased pretty rhetorically...not "are you saying"...but "you're saying"...you're insinuating that that was what i was saying...putting words in my mouth...strawman

btw learn how to edit a post instead of double posting again and again

6/18/2008 5:29:55 PM

Quote :

"btw learn how to edit a post instead of double posting again and again"

make me

6/18/2008 5:31:22 PM

you're such a troll (but thats been obvious for quite some time)

6/18/2008 5:31:59 PM

Quote :

"you're such a troll (but thats been obvious for quite some time)"

ahh and the final sign of defeat

a huge troll calling someone else a troll


my work here is done

6/18/2008 5:32:44 PM

your trolling here is done

would you call it something different? maybe just being a faggot? acting like a douchebag?

Quote :

"a huge troll calling someone else a troll"

ironic that you'd say this

6/18/2008 5:33:08 PM

Quote :

"i can't you know what? neither can you so what is your point? you're the one whose nitpicking my comment in an effort to suck off gore some more"

Al Gore may still well by a hypocrite, but nothing in this thread so far reinforces that idea.

Considering it obviously makes no sense, in general, for his power usage to go up after installing green energy systems, then it should also be obvious that something else is factoring in, that no one can likely control. It would only be blind, zealot-like hatred of Gore to argue against this.

Either the house was used so much more after the renovations that the excess made up for the drop in power

The renovators themselves used the power while renovating.

Or the numbers the tennessean crunched are incorrect.

6/18/2008 6:14:22 PM

Quote :

"Al Gore may still well by a hypocrite, but nothing in this thread so far reinforces that idea. "

Everyday I become more and more amazed by some people on here.

6/18/2008 6:28:26 PM

if you look at the two articles, he decreased his power usage.

the only hypocrisy is that he uses a lot of energy. he clearly has a very large, old house. if it's just him and his family living there, that is ridiculous.

6/18/2008 6:49:10 PM

i'd like to see where his spokesperson got the 40% figure...it says "utility bills" so I guess that could technically be saying he cancelled some of his cable tv channels or something

6/18/2008 6:53:25 PM

Of course his power consumption went down since November. The house is heated by natural gas, not electricity.

Worth looking at:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

6/18/2008 7:28:10 PM

^ I absolutely love that.

6/18/2008 7:29:46 PM

There are talkers and there are doers

6/18/2008 7:33:21 PM

Quote :

"Completely disagree. If Al Gore moved into a shack, I would most certainly listen to him"

Then you're in the minority, and to claim otherwise would be dishonest -- although, frankly, I think you're already being pretty dishonest, because I doubt there's much anything Al Gore could do, short of becoming a Republican, that would cause you to listen to him at all.

Quote :

"and who says he has to live in a shack? how about just a normal house?"

We're talking about a former Senator, Vice President, and Presidential candidate who still strives to be active and relevant in politics. A normal house might as well be a shack. I don't necessarily like it, but it's true. This isn't the Soviet Union where living a spartan existence boosts your commie cred. In order for the man to effectively work for his goals, he needs a high-end place to impress visitors and from which too coordinate his operations.

Aside from all this, there's the fact that he has a family. Maybe Tipper Gore's devotion to the cause is great enough that she'd be willing to sacrifice creature comforts just so people couldn't call her husband a hypocrite. Maybe it isn't. And I'm not going to call a man a hypocrite because he wants his family to live in the comfort associated with their station.

Quote :

"yeah, no one takes you seriously when you live in a shack. - Ghandi LOL, true that - Mother Teresa"

These were people who, during their periods of greatest relevance, stressed the spiritual benefits of a life of poverty. I don't recall Al Gore ever preaching poverty as a lifestyle.

Quote :

"In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month."

This in itself is a pretty shady quote. Take a year's power and compare it to a month's. Did you guys know that last year Average American used enough electricity to power 12 Other Average American's houses for a month?

Now yeah, I get that he's still using quite a bit more electricity. Which brings me back around to the other 90% of my first post, which you completely ignored to focus on the word "shack."

Quote :

"^^uh oh, a spokesperson for Gore (someone he pays to say the right thing) is saying his utility bills are less! "

Says the person whose taking his information from a right-leaning "watchdog" organization, which of course has no incentive to hound Al Gore.

6/18/2008 8:13:43 PM

Quote :

"This isn't the Soviet Union where living a spartan existence boosts your commie cred."

HOwever, he's telling us that we should be driving smaller cars and we should be using less energy at home and that we shouldn't have our thermostat set lower than 75.

How can you possibly see this as a nonissue?

6/18/2008 8:17:47 PM

^^when looking for reasonably objective information about al gore i'll take a right-leaning "watchdog" organization any day over Al Gore's personal paid spokesperson who would never say anything negative about her boss who pays her to speak on his behalf in public

besides, i agree that the year/month thing was misleading...they couldve just said his house used 20x more energy than an average house...its still excessive when you've made your mark in this world by preaching how important it is to not be wasteful and conserve energy

and like you said about people disliking gore for any reason, thats kind of similar to the people who will bend over defending him for any reason

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 8:22 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/18/2008 8:19:57 PM

Quote :

"And I'm not going to call a man a hypocrite because he wants his family to live in the comfort associated with their station."

None of his kids live with him. It's Al and Tipper in a 10,000 square foot house.

The only part that bothers me is the fact that he implored people to do their part, but only did his after he was called out and lost face. But fuck it, he was in a Melissa Ethridge video. I can't stay mad at him.

6/18/2008 8:36:24 PM

Quote :

"HOwever, he's telling us that we should be driving smaller cars and we should be using less energy at home and that we shouldn't have our thermostat set lower than 75."

I don't know what Al Gore keeps his thermostat at. I don't know what kind of car he drives. I know that he made an effort to make his home use less energy. I also know that "using less energy at home" isn't normally followed by "at the expense of your productivity" in most of his speeches.

Quote :

"How can you possibly see this as a nonissue?"

For any of the other numerous reasons I've mentioned that you continue to ignore so you can keep quoting things about the goddamn shack.

Quote :

"when looking for reasonably objective information about al gore i'll take a right-leaning "watchdog" organization any day over Al Gore's personal paid spokesperson"

That's reasonable. It might also be reasonable to wait just a little bit and see what actually pans out. What she said may be true and it may be a bald-faced lie, but luckily for us, we are absolutely certain to find out because she offered a verifiable number.

On the one hand, this makes it less likely for her to have lied, because she's bound to get called out on it. If she's right, and since the renovations were completed Gore's energy use has dropped, we'll know (although I somehow doubt that the TCPR will be the one pointing it out in that case). If she's wrong, TCPR and others will roast her alive and she'll pretend she made a mistake. Then we can both call her a liar together because we'd all know that's bullshit.

So why, why go ahead and dismiss her out of hand when the truth of the matter is bound to come out in short order?

Quote :

"its still excessive when you've made your mark in this world by preaching how important it is to not be wasteful and conserve energy"

OK, here's something I think is key. Wasteful. You have no earthly idea what all that electricity is going to. Neither do I. And for that reason neither of us is qualified to call it wasteful.

If it's powering old-school incandescent bulbs left on when nobody's in the room when Al Gore can clearly afford low-energy fluorescents, that'd be wasteful.

If it's going out the window because of shitty insulation when Al Gore can clearly afford better in that department, that'd be wasteful.

If it's going to pay for the inherently higher costs that come with a larger house, that's not even really wasteful, because Al Gore never told you or anyone else to move into a smaller house.

If it's going to pay for what I suspect is fairly elaborate security, communications, and information systems, that's not wasteful, because those are all things that a person in Al Gore's position needs if they want to continue to be relevant and active in the political world.

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 8:46 PM. Reason : ]

6/18/2008 8:43:04 PM

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to live in a 50,000 sf house and run all the lights and appliances 24/7 if they want to do that, but I don't want that person preaching to me how I should conserve everything...I mean I have long given up on politicians having integrity and Gore's house seems to be just another example of a politician saying "do what I say, not what I do" and essentially giving the idea that its ok for him to do it but you shouldn't...people don't want to be told what to do in the first place, and you combine that with finding out the person telling you to do those things is a huge hypocrite, and people don't like it

To me its not the house or the bills, but its those things combined with his message of how climate change is wrecking our planet and how we have to change even though he doesn't seem willing to change

6/18/2008 8:58:09 PM

Quote :

"I don't have a problem with someone wanting to live in a 50,000 sf house and run all the lights and appliances 24/7 if they want to do that"

Yeah, but those are two wildly different things. With the right efforts, technology, and (possibly unrealistic) investment, a 50,000 square foot house can use less far less than an average-sized home. Hell, take that even further, and you can conceivably take the whole thing off public utilities and nonrenewable resources altogether.

At the same time, if I, in my smaller-than-average townhouse, run everything 24/7, I can use up considerably more energy than the average household.

Lumping the two together is dishonest.

Quote :

"its those things combined with his message of how climate change is wrecking our planet and how we have to change even though he doesn't seem willing to change"

What does "willing to change" mean here? Does it mean giving up on certain technologies necessary to be plugged into global politics? Does it mean giving up on security systems that are reasonable for the protection of a major political player? Does it mean, in effect, that you should quit doing your job?

No, it doesn't.

He's demonstrably willing to spend his resources on taking steps to follow his own example. Perhaps he had to be prodded into that, but notwithstanding he did it. It's possible -- but far from certain -- that those steps were not entirely effective, but he did practice what he preached.

6/19/2008 2:58:44 AM

Quote :

"Lumping the two together is dishonest."

Once again, the point is, its not the house that he lives in if its a beat-up shack or the Biltmore Estate that people criticize him for, its living in a really nice house that uses a ton of energy while chastising other polluters. It's not where he lives, its the hypocrisy. That he is so adamant about the dangers of emitting carbon and using energy, yet he doesn't feel the need to practice what he preaches

Quote :

"What does "willing to change" mean here?"

Willing to live in something slightly more meager than a 20-bedroom mansion with a $15,000/month power bill?

6/19/2008 10:23:44 AM

Quote :

"Worth looking at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp"

while I appreciate the measures used in building the bush ranch home, its not like he did it for environmental reasons. he lives in the middle of the desert where its hot and dry. To keep the house cool and with enough water would cost an extreme amount of money using conventional methods. Those measures were more of an effort to save money than anything.

Still cool though.

6/19/2008 10:52:26 AM

6/19/2008 10:56:22 AM

Quote :

"He basically runs an international non-profit agency from his home."

Exxon is also a non-profit agency

6/19/2008 11:06:01 AM

Quote :

"energy savings his advocacy has provided."

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6/19/2008 12:54:58 PM