^ Yeah, "typical" according to whose stereotype? And since Obama brought up the French, you know who dislikes them the most? The French!

Dislike of French

44% among French

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18334627/

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=474915

I'm not "embarrassed" by my country like Obama and some of you are--I unapologetically love my country and I always will. Do we have some assholes that don't reflect well on Americans as a population when they travel abroad? Of course. Many other countries breed assholes, too--and the continent of Europe has been specializing in it for centuries.

[Edited on August 18, 2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2008 11:55:29 PM

your patriotism brings a tear to my eye. I shall go attach a flag to my car now.

8/19/2008 12:08:11 AM

^ This one, am I right?

8/19/2008 12:31:15 AM

Quote :

"Do we have some assholes that don't reflect well on Americans as a population when they travel abroad? "

Yeah but the sad fact of the matter is a disproportionate number of Americans traveling abroad manage to make themselves looks like jerks or completely clueless compared to other English speaking nationalities. I don't know if it's that Americans just do less research on the culture/language/etc of a place before going to it or if we simply don't care about those things, but it's something you definitely notice when abroad for awhile.

As an aside, apparently Chinese have the reputation for being annoying as shit when they go sightseeing around Asia

8/19/2008 2:17:38 AM

^ Can you prove the former?

8/19/2008 2:22:02 AM

How exactly would I go about proving that? It's simply observation. And obviously a lot of people observe this for it to have become a stereotype like it is. I'm not saying that forcing everyone to learn a second language would change anything. Personally I don't think it really would.

If I had to make a list of troublesome tourists from English speaking countries, based on what I've observed since living in a foreign country, it would probably go something like:

1) US and England
2) Ireland
3) Australia
4) Canada

From what I've seen here.

8/19/2008 2:37:52 AM

^ While I can appreciate your observations, anecdotal evidence in this situation just doesn't do it for me--and if some here were to be candid (for once), it wouldn't do it for them either. No, the allegations of bad behavior smack more of a self-perpetuating myth that fits all too conveniently into an anti-American narrative--we're all obnoxious cowboys. Yeah, and everybody in Mexico wears a sombrero, too.

I find this part of your post particularly troubling, though:

Quote :

"And obviously a lot of people observe this for it to have become a stereotype like it is."

If this logic were broadly applied, do you realize how many populations would be smeared by the unfortunate actions of often small subsets? I have witnessed Blacks, for example, committing crimes--does that mean that they're mostly or all "jerks or completely clueless"? The answer, of course, is self-evident.

8/19/2008 3:02:28 AM

Quote :

"How exactly would I go about proving that? It's simply observation. And obviously a lot of people observe this for it to have become a stereotype like it is. I'm not saying that forcing everyone to learn a second language would change anything. Personally I don't think it really would. If I had to make a list of troublesome tourists from English speaking countries, based on what I've observed since living in a foreign country, it would probably go something like: 1) US and England 2) Ireland 3) Australia 4) Canada From what I've seen here."

I think you are just more self conscious of your fellow country men and thus more aware of when one of them makes an ass of themselves.

I have traveled pretty extensively and I rarely see the stereotypical American. I more commonly see the stereotypical European who already has a opinion about Americans, and are more than willing to let you know it.

And it isn't embarrasing because the average American doesn't need to be as multilingual as the average European. Someone living in Iowa has little need to learn another language compared to someone living in Belgium. It's human nature. I live in Iowa I can travel thousand(!) of miles and speak English with anyone I meet. I live in Belgium and I can travel to the next town and have to speak Flemish, or French, or Dutch, or German, or Walloon.

Also, having lived in Scotland for 2 years. I don't recall the average Brit being any more multilingual than Joe American.

8/19/2008 11:56:04 AM

When you think about it, almost all non-speaking nations will automatically have significant numbers of their citizens learn a second language, English, in order to operate in the greater global community for their given fields. For better or worse, English is still the common medium for the financial, scientific, and academic communities of the world, and not being able to speak it puts you at a disadvantage, especially if you want to compete on the international stage.

8/19/2008 1:21:41 PM

^^ I think you are correct that I am more aware of it because I am American. I can't really speak for American tourists in Europe though. Pretty much all of my experience is with American tourists in Asia.

^^^ I'm not saying that the stereotype is true, I'm just saying that stereotypes are built upon observation and unfortunately for Americans obnoxious behavior is what is observed a lot of the time in American tourists. I think this speaks more for the sorts of people who are traveling and not for Americans as a whole or all American tourists.

Stereotypes, while most often incorrect, don't come completely out of nowhere

8/19/2008 10:29:02 PM

I dunno. I think it's really easy and fun to hate on Americans.

I mean, when my friends visited Italy, their group (of Americans) was making jokes to the bus driver about being obnoxious Americans. And the bus driver said he really liked his American groups. The worst offenders, according to him? Asians, specifically the Chinese. He said they were cheap, pushy, and smelly.

Maybe we're all being a little self-centered when we think Americans are sooo bad and embarassing.

8/20/2008 2:08:54 AM

o rry? the chinese are smelly?

i think he was probably busting on chinese because the bus was chinese-free at the time. which ever group is missing, that will be the group he'll say is "the worst"... the groups that are on the bus, will be his favorite.

i had a korean friend who said white folks smelled funky. not as bad as the blacks, in his opinion, but kind of funky.

i can't say ive ever smelled an Asian. they generally seem to be pretty clean and fairly free of sweat glands.




[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 2:14 AM. Reason : ]

8/20/2008 2:11:27 AM

^It wasn't just the one bus driver who said it. And we considered your point. However:


http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/21/business/tourists.php
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1228/p01s02-woap.html
http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/179181.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/international/asia/14laos.html
http://www.danwei.org/tourism/whos_responsible_for_chinese_t.php
http://en.invest.china.cn/english/2006/Oct/183079.htm

The most recent thing I could find. It's from July 4, 2008...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1820358,00.html?imw=Y

What do you know? Chinese rank the worst. Then Indians. And then the French.

And an interesting bit...

Quote :

"American tourists fared well in some surprising ways. Despite being notoriously language-limited, for example, they top the list of tourists credited with trying to speak local languages the most, with the French, Chinese, Japanese, Italians and Russians coming in last in the local-language rankings."

Anyway, I'm beginning to question whether or not you've ever left the country if you think Americans are so bad.

[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 2:56 AM. Reason : ]

8/20/2008 2:45:54 AM

me? i never said americans were so bad.

8/20/2008 9:52:23 AM

That poll focused on hotel operators, Bridget. I wouldn't take its results as authoritative.

8/20/2008 10:31:54 AM