2

8/17/2008 8:42:02 PM

It's amazing to me that electronic transactions can't be processed almost instantaneously. In fact, I can think of very few reasons for transactions of any kind not to process as they happen. The bank shouldn't need to be open in order for most things to process. Yes, if I deposit a cash or a check on friday I can see it not processing until Monday, but outside of that it should happen in real time. Processing things out of order should not be legal.

8/17/2008 9:04:41 PM

Quote :

"Every bank I have used has had some kind of very visible reminder posted that states their deposit availability timeline"

Meh. Two months ago, they lied to me. I deposited a check, and the chick told me that since it was a Wachovia check, they could verify the funds and it would go into my account immediately. So I went and got some Starbuck's. And then a pack of cigarettes. The smokes and coffee ended up costing me around $78.

There's nothing transparent or honest about their business practices.

8/17/2008 9:12:58 PM

pooljobs

Big Business is always right because in USA #1 capitalistic freedom country they can do whatever they want. On the other hand 99% of the population are just financially stupid drones who deserve to have their money taken from them by the elites of society.

8/17/2008 9:55:25 PM

^Don't kid yourself. 99.99999999999999999 percent of us are drones.

Just look at what the supposedly elite wealthy do with the money that we "deserve" to have taken from us...the same unimaginative shit that everybody else would do.

8/17/2008 10:03:33 PM

Quote :

"On the other hand 99% of the population are just financially stupid drones who deserve to have their money taken from them by the elites of society."

Given that the only thing that causes you to overdraft your account are you own bad choices, seems like an accurate description. What's the phrase about a fool and his money? Regardless of whether transactions should or shouldn't happen in real time, the fact is they don't, nor is this a surprise to anyone that reads their contracts, or the signs posted around their bank, or does some rudimentary research into how their various forms of payment work. Besides, if you really need the money from a check right away, you can always cash it. We don't need laws, we need people to not be fucking idiots, and to vote with their money. If you don't like your banks policies, go someplace else and let them know why you're leaving.

[Edited on August 17, 2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason : adsf]

8/17/2008 11:55:04 PM

Everyone who is coming to Wachovia's defense on this has not even taken a second to pay attention to their business practices.

If you deposit cash in to a bank account it should post immediately. Cash does not need to clear. Wachovia will hand you a receipt verifying the deposit and post date and then still charge overdraft fees as that money is spent because the money has not "posted" to the account yet.

I'm sorry but once you got the money in your register it should be posted. The conveniently not applying funds in order to trigger an overdraft should stop.

8/18/2008 12:11:45 AM

The two figures are different, that is why Wachovia lists them separately on its web site: Posted Balance and Available Balance.

8/18/2008 9:54:39 AM

If you have a receipt from Wachovia with an deposit effective date of the day you deposit and they still charge you overdraft, you have a legitimate gripe, as you didn't actually overdraft (provided you already had money in the account to cover the days purchases). But most people who bitch about over drafting are people that deposit their pay check on Friday afternoon and seem surprised when they overdraft over the weekend, even though almost every bank will not post a check deposit made after 2 or 3 PM until the next business day (monday). Look, I hate overdraft fees as much as anyone, but why do you need a law, when it's really simple to avoid the fees in the first place by not over drafting your account?

8/18/2008 9:58:38 AM

The role of government should be to restrict unfair and deceptive business practices. I am pretty sure what Wachovia is doing would fall in that category.

8/18/2008 12:14:04 PM

What is unfair or deceptive about it? Wachovia has signs all over their banks that say "Deposits made after 2PM will be credited the next business day." It doesn't get any clearer than that. Deception is not defined as ignorance. Just because you are ignorant to how the financial instruments you use work doesn't make the business practices behind that instrument deceptive. At no time does Wachovia make any promises as to the immediate availability of your deposits, your assumptions aside. Take a little responsibility for your own money and you might find that you and your bank get along quite nicely.

8/18/2008 1:04:51 PM

there was way too much to keep reading.

pretty much

Quote :

"Better than BB&T,"

signed, and fucking signed. i hate that bank so much.

i had that account for years and kept at least 2k in it, but gradually stopped using it as much and only as a means to pay things such as my car payment and bills, etc... each month. In order to cover this i had my company direct deposit a certain amount in that account every month. We got a bonus and i deposited that check at an outside ATM on a wednesday, and on friday I used that account to buy plane tickets. The check was for roughly 1200.00. I then used that account during the weekend to buy plane tickets to NYC, which were approximately 300. When i checked my statement a week later i had over 200 in charges. I received overages for the plane ticket, and then also for each of my bills that were automatically drafted that same day. the claim they made was there was a mandatory 7 - 10 business day hold on live checks over 1000 if they've never processed that check for a person before. Despite the fact that i had been autodepositing checks from other companies for over two years and for that one for almost a year the live check had to abide by those stipulations. I had to go in and argue with them for hours and then be involved with many phone calls and still only received 115 of it back. I immediately stopped banking there, and will never be involved with that bank again.

8/18/2008 1:07:12 PM

I'm with 1337 b4k4 on this. Either read the rules (and the friggin' signs) and figure out how to live within them or go to a different bank. Afterall, the first page of this thread is full of banks which either charge very low fees (less than a $1) or no fees whatsoever. If you don't want to have to worry about overdrafting, then change your situation to satisfy that desire. Don't penalize the rest of society to achieve your goals.

8/18/2008 2:12:16 PM

It's okay to try to screw people. If they fall for your tricks, they deserve the pain. Hell, we can even say they want it. If not, they wouldn't let it happen.

Ah, capitalism.

8/18/2008 2:45:50 PM

I still fail to see how it's a trick or deceptive when they spell everything out in plain english on signs posted all over the bank. So tell me, how in any way shape or form has Wachovia been deceptive? What promises have they made or implied that would make you think one thing yet reality is something else. If they were really tricking and deceiving people, they would have been sued for fraud long ago. Clearly that isn't the case.

8/18/2008 3:18:07 PM

I like how they will debit my checks before they credit my deposits. Even if the deposits were made before the checks were written.

But it never hurts me anyway.

8/18/2008 3:47:37 PM

Quote :

"This is one of a few occasions i do not mind gov't involvement in the economy and business regulations."

half of America will walk around all day quoting free market tennets like they were the New Testament; but that same half would shit a brick the minute our government either becomes unwilling or unable to subsidize our oil.

that's right, your shit is subsidized. other countries go ahead and call it a spade, but we call it "long term strategic military presence in the middle east".

won't lead this thread astray with how i think we need an Apollo Project for energy... just want to point out that the government is full and well involved in the economy.

8/18/2008 3:56:26 PM

While the thread is going that way, it is a case that everyone supports free markets in general, but they similarly oppose free markets for themselves.

Well, if we are going to have regulation on this issue then judging from the fact that big banks can hire big lobbying campaigns, I suspect the law passed will outlaw overdraft fees, but be carefully worded to accidentally prohibit overdraft protection at all, forcing everyone to pay bounced check fees instead, with the obviously benefit of eliminating competition from smaller banks which had been winning customers by offering free or nearly free overdraft protection, but are now forced to charge the same as everyone else since states already regulate bounced check fees. Big banks stop losing customers to smaller banks, customers lose money, congressmen get to look good for a few months, and the whole system grinds on to the next customer protection act which suceeds in nothing more than curtailling competition.

8/18/2008 5:53:55 PM

Quote :

"Don't penalize the rest of society to achieve your goals."

please explain how enacting such a law would penalize the rest of society. I'm not seeing any harm coming to citizens because of this and screaming "what about the tax dollars" would not be appropriate because i do not see this causing a great deal of tax dollars to implement, and would cost none that would not already be used to begin with.

Also, can you please tell me from the situation I did above, how that was in my fault? You can argue that some place within the thousands of pages of literature I should have known that depositing that check would create such a stir. While these excessive pages of literature do not constitute "posted all over the bank" they did in fact contain the rule alluding to my situation, this i admit. however, to my defense, it states that for the first time they receive a check over 1000 from a party. They had received checks from my company before, which were in excess of 1000, but only by direct deposit. It was this line that I pointed out in order to erase the debits they created by the drafting fees.

furthermore, associating this incidents that can take place with people living "beyond their means" is completely erroneous. In my situation i was living within my means and aware of how much money i had and what was allocated where, but the order in which they felt the need to process the funds is what created the charge. this intentional arrangement of deductions which results in benefiting the bank and the bank alone can be considered predatory and if they choose not to act responsibly and curtail it themselves then a law should be put in place. if you have the money you should be able to spend that money and not have to worry about the order in which you spend it. i fail to see the connection with these events and penalizing society. if you would like to make that connection for me please feel welcome to do so, but do it without using an obtuse example such as the bank now doesn't pull in as much money so timmy has to lose his job and now timmy's family can't eat and doesn't participate in society and needs unemployment type bullshit. i would like realistic and legit examples, thanks.

8/18/2008 6:03:20 PM

Quote :

""Deposits made after 2PM will be credited the next business day." It doesn't get any clearer than that."

When the next business day? That's right--midnight the next business day.

So really it's more like, "Deposits made after 2PM will be credited the after the next business day."

It doesn't get any clearer than that!


Fucking idiots.

8/18/2008 6:37:18 PM

So really the fair thing to do would be to hold the deposits in outer space until the person has racked up enough in fees to hand it all over to the bank.

This would be fair as long as they posted a sign stating they will arbitrarily credit things whenever they get around to it.

8/18/2008 7:37:12 PM

Quote :

" Despite the fact that i had been autodepositing checks from other companies for over two years and for that one for almost a year the live check had to abide by those stipulations."

Are you talking about direct deposit (autodepositing)? If so, direct deposits are giros, not checks.

8/18/2008 8:12:55 PM

Quote :

"When the next business day? That's right--midnight the next business day. So really it's more like, "Deposits made after 2PM will be credited the after the next business day." It doesn't get any clearer than that! "

It's your responsibility to pick a bank that has the policies that fit you best. If you want to have you deposits clear faster, talk to your bank or find one that has better policies. Again, are they making any implications or promises that things are different than reality? Where are you deceived?

Quote :

"Also, can you please tell me from the situation I did above, how that was in my fault? You can argue that some place within the thousands of pages of literature I should have known that depositing that check would create such a stir. While these excessive pages of literature do not constitute "posted all over the bank" they did in fact contain the rule alluding to my situation, this i admit. however, to my defense, it states that for the first time they receive a check over 1000 from a party. They had received checks from my company before, which were in excess of 1000, but only by direct deposit. It was this line that I pointed out in order to erase the debits they created by the drafting fees. "

Direct deposits are not checks. As I said before, your ignorance of the financial instruments that you use does not constitute fraud on your bank's part.

8/18/2008 9:14:37 PM

Speaking of banks last Wed I choose to withdrawal $500 from my sharebuilder account back to my checking account. Friday rolled around and it was still "processing"; finally today it posted according to sharebuilder. Yet my checking account was never credited with $500.

Where the fuck is my money.....

I have deposited and withdrawn money from sharebuilder before and never had such problems.

8/18/2008 9:34:21 PM

Quote :

"Since it is the weekend though on the following Monday when the bank processes all the stuff from the following weekend will process the largest amount of $65 FIRST, which will of course cause the account to go to overdraft. The bank will then process the next two transactions both of which will also overdraft since their was an effective $0 left in the account. So Bob will end up getting charged $75 in overdraft fees."

just did this to me to charge me $105 in fees.

8/18/2008 10:12:33 PM

I think banks take time to "process" fund transfers is because they are milking customer capital off the interest they can make. Gotta squeeze the joe schmoe for every penny they can.

8/18/2008 11:07:31 PM

Quote :

"It's okay to try to screw people. If they fall for your tricks, they deserve the pain. Hell, we can even say they want it. If not, they wouldn't let it happen. Ah, capitalism."

Yay for naive combining of the just-world fallacy and fundamental attribution error.

8/18/2008 11:24:26 PM

Quote :

"Again, are they makinhttp://brentroad.com/images/image.gifg any implications or promises that things are different than reality? "

yes. that is the simple answer, but i take it you were not expecting that. perhaps you've never met a salesmen, in which case, touche.

8/19/2008 2:20:59 AM

Quote :

"It's your responsibility to pick a bank that has the policies that fit you best. If you want to have you deposits clear faster, talk to your bank or find one that has better policies. Again, are they making any implications or promises that things are different than reality? Where are you deceived? "

Yes, dipshit.

I've already revealed to you the bullshit surrounding the "next business day." They say the next fucking business day...they mean the day after the next fucking business day minus one second.

And what the fuck happens at midnight??? Why can't people who walk in with cash, with checks drafted at the same bank, get their money posted and availble? What the fuck is going on with our money?

We live on fixed incomes. And forgive us if it pisses us off a little bit to hear people bragging about their free checking, free online banking...it's not free. We, the least wealthy and least greedy, pay for all your free bank services. Enjoy...but don't act like I'm irresponsible when I pay for everybody else's shit.

[Edited on August 19, 2008 at 5:36 AM. Reason : ]

8/19/2008 5:35:22 AM

Bridget, you are not paying for our shit because you use a completely different bank from us. You could give your bank a gift of a billion dollars and it would have no benefit to our financial institutions. You are paying for <insert your bank here>'s shit, not ours. And if you want to know what is happening with your money then you should ask your bank teller, I'm sure she will tell you of the hours of backroom work for someone to go back over all the deposits of the day making sure the teller did not make a mistake or engage in criminal activity. That is why deposits cut off at 2pm, so time is available to do this before the business day ends. ATM deposits can take up to four days to process.

Quote :

"Also, can you please tell me from the situation I did above, how that was in my fault?"

IRSeriousCat, you were addressing a different situation from overdraft fees which I myself got slapped with by Wachovia, which is why I switched banks. All I can tell you is that all banks have different rules for check deposits for the same goal of limiting fraud. People can open up an account with stollen information, deposit a dozen fake checks each at a different branch and then withdraw the cash before the bank gets the checks returned as frauds in three to five business days from the Government. As such, passing a law to force banks to immediately deposit checks, rather than allowing them to hold them for up to five days, would be a dream come true to fraudsters. Now, various banks set policies to let people around this. Wachovia tellers were allowed to deposit checks over $1000 immediately if they knew you. Some banks will let them deposit immediately just from your "home branch" (a single branch of your choosing).

So, while they clearly did not give you as much warning as they gave Bridget which had a sign informing her, your suffering is nevertheless necessary. Which is all the more reason for you to switch banks. Afterall, if you had free overdraft protection then you would not have cared that they held your deposit for five days, since $500 (or more with good credit) of it would have been covered by overdraft protection.

Quote :

"When the next business day? That's right--midnight the next business day. So really it's more like, "Deposits made after 2PM will be credited the after the next business day.""

If you had deposited your money at 11am, what time would you have expected it to post to your account? Either way, had you had free overdraft protection then you would not have cared when it posted, as it would have cost you a nickel in interest.

8/19/2008 9:45:47 AM

^fair response.

8/19/2008 10:29:16 AM

Quote :

"yes. that is the simple answer, but i take it you were not expecting that. perhaps you've never met a salesmen, in which case, touche. "

I was expecting that answer, but I was also hoping you might provide real examples rather than assuming I'm going to take you at your word. So far no one has shown me where the bank says one thing but another thing happens. Show me the bank deceiving you rather than you assuming something and not verifying your assumption with the bank.

Quote :

"Yes, dipshit. I've already revealed to you the bullshit surrounding the "next business day." They say the next fucking business day...they mean the day after the next fucking business day minus one second. And what the fuck happens at midnight??? Why can't people who walk in with cash, with checks drafted at the same bank, get their money posted and availble? What the fuck is going on with our money? "

Perhaps you should ask your bank. Incidentally if you walk into your bank with cash most (including Wachovia) will credit your account the same day. But again, it's your responsibility to verify information with your bank. Wachovia says deposits after 2 PM credit the next business day, and that credit time is usually 11:59 PM. SECU has a policy of crediting your account the same business day unless they tell you otherwise. My old bank in NY had a policy of crediting your account the next business day at noon. As I said, it is your responsibility to choose a bank who's policies fit you and your needs.

Quote :

"We live on fixed incomes. And forgive us if it pisses us off a little bit to hear people bragging about their free checking, free online banking...it's not free. We, the least wealthy and least greedy, pay for all your free bank services. Enjoy...but don't act like I'm irresponsible when I pay for everybody else's shit. "

Please, you don't pay for shit. Banks make money by having money on hand to loan. Your free checking account with an average balance of $25 doesn't make the bank any money. The fees you get hit with every month even though you know the policies of the bank probably just barely cover the costs of maintaining your account and paying for a rep to explain to you each month the bank policies.

But if choosing a new bank is such a difficult thing for you to do, you do have another option. Go to walmart or food lion or any of the other places arround, cash your check and pay the $3 charge for the convenience of having access to that money now as opposed to when the bank you chose credits your account. Surely that $3 is much cheaper than 4 or 5 overdraft charges right?

8/19/2008 10:37:05 AM

^ taking the integral of everyone that only has a $100 balance adds up. It is the like picking up a nickel you find on the ground at the parking lot. Except the nickel does not choose to take out car loans / mortgages unlike joe schmoe. Plus you are building consumer loyalty in the case that the customer becomes successful. Unless you inherited your wealth many affluent individuals had to start somewhere. The fact is the big banks don't give a fuck about the average person. They manipulate the banking industry or pay for lobbyists to influence politics in order to maintain the "status quo" that allows them to offset risk through milking depositors with fees.

8/19/2008 9:35:20 PM

The integral of everyone that only has $100 in the bank does not add up, because there are costs associated with having you as a customer. They must mail you statements every month, easily 50 cents each, process and honor your checks when you write them, accept losses whenever one of you refuses to pay back your overdraft protection, and maintain an army of tellers and ATMs just in case you want you money. All this costs money, yet they manage to provide all this to you in exchange for earning interest on your $100, or 50 cents a month. The also earn whatever they get from your debit card purchases from retailers, which I suspect is far more than the interest on your $100.

Nevertheless, they can only maintain the status quo if you let them. Switch banks now and show them who's boss.

8/19/2008 11:41:43 PM

Wachovia is one of the worst offenders for this sort of crap

8/20/2008 1:50:35 AM

I always like to screw them back when I can. When I banked with Wachovia I would accomplish this by withdrawling big when I new I was going to overdraft. I'd take out something like $250 in cash knowing they could only charge me a $30 dollar fee for that overdraft. Then, just to piss them off, I would walk back into the bank and pay them the fee with the cash I just withdrew and pocket the rest until I got paid and then deposit what was left. This of course was way back in the day. I'm not sure you can do this anymore but man it was fun while it lasted.

8/20/2008 9:58:55 AM

^^^THe bank doesn't mail me shit. Plus, with the service fees paid by non-members of banks more than covers the costs of running the ATM. After all, the ATM actually cuts down on the costs of the bank since they do not have to employ someone to operate the ATM like they do with tellers.

8/20/2008 10:37:38 AM

you guys act like its so hard to keep track of your money.

Quote :

"For Example Let's say Bob deposits $100 into his account on Friday. After which a check bob wrote 3 weeks ago finally gets cashed for $50. Let's say Bob has $50 in his account now. Over the weekend he makes three debit card purchases in sequential order of $5.00, $12.00, and then (thinking he still has $83) a purchase of $65. "

Bob is dumb and deserves to get charged any and all fees .





[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 11:01 AM. Reason : g]

8/20/2008 10:55:13 AM

I know a guy that got completely raped by BB&T for a deposit he made before 2:00 on Friday. They nailed him for overdrafts all weekend ($170) then on Monday when he is like oh yeah the policy was changed we mailed it in the statement.

So I tell this guy close your fucking account and go to SECU or CFCU immediately or you are a huge vagina. He is like "oh yeah i might do that, but then my dad cant put money in there anymore........."

At that point I was like fuck it. The problem is not just the companies having assrape policies, but also the consumers that are too fucking lazy and stupid to change when they are being treated unfairly.

8/20/2008 11:35:44 AM

It is starting to sound like even if some people had free overdraft protection they would simply leave it maxed out and them complain when they get slapped for overdrawing the available funds.

Quote :

"Plus, with the service fees paid by non-members of banks more than covers the costs of running the ATM."

[citation needed]

What is your point nutsmackr?

8/20/2008 11:56:41 AM

the longer this thread goes on the more and more it belongs in chit chat.

8/20/2008 12:26:52 PM