lol drudge report is tanked at the moment

8/29/2008 11:39:49 AM

Quote :

"72 and statistically a higher and higher risk of health problems whatever they may be"

Just a minor point - but once POTUS, all people have a MUCH higher chance of health problems regardless of age and physical condition. As in they have a statistically significant risk of being shot.

I think you are right though, she's not experienced enough. On the other hand, Palin seems to be a smart, honest, and effective person on first inspection.

8/29/2008 11:45:01 AM

Quote :

"the teenagers who support Obama are starting to panic and get angry because they're not getting their way"

ha! so true

8/29/2008 11:54:08 AM

the teenagers that support obama aren't smart enough to know if this is good or bad for obama's chances.

8/29/2008 12:05:38 PM

Wouldn't you all say that McCain and his people did a better job of keeping the Palin announcement a secret and a surprise than Obama and his people did with Biden? I want a president that can keep a secret and surprise people when necessary.

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2008 12:06:36 PM

I imagine as a former beauty queen, she will have already stated her politics many times on stage. She will no doubt want to have world peace and find a cure for cancer and poverty.

8/29/2008 12:14:25 PM

One cool thing about the pick is that she agrees with Obama already about energy, and she said so this month!

Quote :

"On August 5, Sarah Palin sent out a press release applauding Obama's embrace of natural gas and his plan to give $1,000 tax rebates to deal with rising energy costs. Alaska Governor Sarah Palin -- occasionally mentioned as a McCain vice presidential prospect -- has put out a press release praising Obama's energy plan. Alaska energy politics seem to trump national politics here, though it's also interesting to see a red(dish) state Republican so willing to associate herself with the Democratic nominee. "I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska‚s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs," Palin says in the release. "The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs." More: Governor Palin also acknowledged the senator's proposal to offer $1,000 rebates to those struggling with the high cost of energy. "We in Alaska feel that crunch and are taking steps to address it right here at home," Governor Palin said. "This is a tool that must be on the table to buy us time until our long-term energy plans can be put into place. We have already enjoyed the support of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and it is gratifying to see Senator Obama get on board.""

8/29/2008 12:19:09 PM

I have to agree with the impression that this is going to help the McCain ticket tremendously and most likely will win him the election.

8/29/2008 12:30:34 PM

I think the Democrats ought to avoid trying to portray Palin as weak...millions of people, and many of them women, voted for Hillary in the primaries...many of them jumped to Obama's side when Hillary was out of the running, but many others reluctantly jumped to Obama's side thinking it was simply better than McCain, and might jump to (McCain's) Palin's side if they feel Obama's campaign makes the wrong critiques of Palin

8/29/2008 12:31:41 PM

^ I disagree.. to an extent. It completely depends on what Palin decides to come off as in the Media, debates, and rallies. The Obama camp needs to be reactionary in their response to her. If she comes off as butch, then stick it to her. If she comes off as a soccer mom, then play it safe. If she stays neutral, then act like she isn't there.

8/29/2008 12:33:55 PM

Quote :

"I have to agree with the impression that this is going to help the McCain ticket tremendously and most likely will win him the election."

Explain this with a rational argument. I'm curious - how do you figure? What does she bring in that shifts the electoral odds and map...

8/29/2008 12:34:21 PM

^^I'm just saying in general, there are women voters who feel snubbed by Hillary being pressured to give up in the primaries...many of them are still swing voters...Obama's people need to be careful with how they criticize Palin, specifically not accidentally making derogatory remarks about the abilities of women

I mean in the primaries, in a sense, Obama had an advantage over Hillary with black voters, and Hillary had an advantage over Obama with women voters, right? At the time though, either one of them had an advantage over McCain for attracting both minority and women voters...well now that Hillary is out and Palin is on McCain's ticket, it seems McCain's side just got a huge advantage in the women voter population

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM. Reason : ^^]

8/29/2008 12:35:30 PM

She's speaking live right now.

8/29/2008 12:37:08 PM

I'm watching it. I promise I'm not trying to troll but they look awkward together. I mean, she looks like his daughter. Doesn't matter who you support, isn't the visuals of this odd?

It's unfair of me to criticize using this basis but I'm just sayin..

8/29/2008 12:38:38 PM

Quote :

"Explain this with a rational argument. I'm curious - how do you figure? What does she bring in that shifts the electoral odds and map..."

She brings in independent women and a sizeable percentage of hardcore former Hillary supporters. She also energizes the base with her social stances. They might not win Pennsylvania, but the addition of Palin means that McCain has a much better chance in Ohio, Florida, and the northwest.

8/29/2008 12:40:06 PM

Wow--I just feel in love with Palin as a candidate. *Swoon*

8/29/2008 12:40:28 PM

Take this for what it's worth but this is from a republican point of view...

Quote :

"So it's official - John McCain has thrown a Hail Mary and tapped Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. The trad med types are ga-ga about what a game-changing choice Palin is. And they're right. It is a game-changer. The Palin pick takes a race already leaning toward Obama and pushes it further into his corner. Why? Because Sarah Palin is the most unqualified VP nominee in modern history, with the possible exception of Admiral Stockdale. She's worse than Quayle. After his selection in 1988, Dan Quayle was rightly lambasted as a dim, inexperienced lightweight with no real pertinent experience who was named by George H. W. Bush as a gimmick - a case of an old, out-of touch candidate trying to appear relevant by teaming up with a much younger pol. Now, Palin's not Quayle - by all accounts, she's quite bright. But she's fantastically inexperienced, far more so than Quayle was when he was tapped. And she possesses an attribute far worse than Quayle's stupidity - she's a big corrupt wheel in Alaska's big corrupt Republican Party, arguably the most corrupt political apparatus in the United States. We're told that McCain really wanted to pick his old friend Joe Lieberman to run with him, but that Karl Rove and the rest of the elite Republican politburo nixed the idea, and told McCain that he had to take a conservative. And as he has at every step of his campaign, the one-time "maverick" sold out to the venal, icy core of the Republican leadership, and acquiesced by selecting Palin. Palin is really a Republican after Rove's heart - she's a product of the party that produced the indicted Ted Stevens and ethically tarred Don Young, and she's embroiled in a Troopergate scandal of her own, with state investigators looking at serious allegations that Palin abused her office by pressuring the state Public Safety Commissioner to fire "an Alaska state trooper involved in a rough divorce from Palin's sister." Sounds like a woman after Karl Rove's heart. In addition to further associating McCain with the Republican culture of corruption, the Palin pick undermines one of his main anti-Obama narratives. It's going to be laughable to hear McCain assail Obama's supposed lack of experience after naming the first-term governor -- only one-and-a-half years into her term -- of the 47th largest state to be his running mate. Palin lacks any foreign policy experience, and is bereft of even the two core areas of policy expertise that governors are supposed to bring to a ticket -- ag policy (Alaska doesn't have much in the way of traditional agriculture) and urban affairs (Anchorage is the 65th largest city in the US, behind giants such as Corpus Christi). She's easily the least experienced running mate in recent memory, which is pretty scary, given McCain's age and his history of cancer. By picking Palin, McCain revealed his desperation to make a splash to rival the genuine excitement generated by the Obama campaign. But desperation leads to poor decisions -- and McCain's Hail Mary, like most last second desperation moves, is destined to fail miserably. He's smeared himself with the pungent mud of Alaska Republican corruption, while cutting the legs out from one of his most reliable attacks against Obama. And he's presented Americans with the prospect of electing a dangerous neophyte to be a heartbeat away from the presidency, behind a man whose life expectancy is less than two presidential terms. We all expected McCain to pick someone underwhelming to run with him. But we never could have expected a pick worse than Quayle. Yet that's what we got. Thanks, John!"

8/29/2008 12:41:54 PM

Can McCain even make the experience argument with a straight face? I guess his message will be "Don't worry, I won't die."

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2008 12:42:21 PM

^^

Quote :

"Take this for what it's worth but this is from a republican point of view..."

Daily Kos is from a republican point of view?? WTF are you talking about?

8/29/2008 12:46:36 PM

McCain is really pulling a bunch of gimmicks to win this campaign. Palin just spoke and basically admitted she was chosen to get Clinton's voters.

8/29/2008 12:47:51 PM

LOL I was about to post the same thing.

This guy is sadly misinformed if he's trying to throw Palin in with Ted Stevens.

8/29/2008 12:47:53 PM

HAHAHAH she just mentioned hillary clinton in her speech. Unbelievable. Is this amateur hour? I'm liking this pick more and more

8/29/2008 12:48:45 PM

I'm a little late to the game, but who the heck is Palin????

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ???]

8/29/2008 12:49:43 PM

I <3 Sara Palin

8/29/2008 12:50:40 PM

Quote :

"Explain this with a rational argument. I'm curious - how do you figure? What does she bring in that shifts the electoral odds and map..."

Alright, I'll give it a quick shot while I'm here at work in the form of fragmented sentences since I don't feel like writing out an argument in essay form.

- It will not win the Repubs a significant number of the Hillary supporters. However, it will bring many reluctant hardliner Republican women to the voting booth and it will win him some significant support among independent women who aren't deterred by Roe v. Wade.

- The experience argument is not a non-starter at this point. The fact is, as Palin herself and most VPs in history* have said themselves, that the VP does very little in office. It will be hard to make the case that her experience is an issue even with McCain's declining health. If you want to go down that road, then the Right can quite reasonably apply the same logic that Obama is an assassination risk, that Biden is about the same health risk as McCain, and so if you're voting for Obama you're really voting for Nancy Pelosi!!11! If the Obama camp decides to go on the offensive about it all she has to do is appear non-aggressive in her responses about the issue and she will be seen even more as someone who can 'transcend partisan politics' (which has already appeared as a key Republican talking point).

- On that note, the Obama camp has very few options in using her as leverage whereas she is leverage by just being on the ticket to the McCain camp (due simply to her sex and her stances on the issues). As mentioned above, Obama can't attack her or it will strengthen her image of being someone who can reach across the isle to make things happen.

- While many Obama supporters are saying that the experience issue is the biggest argument in favor of this being a bad pick, you can apply similar reasoning that it greatly strengthens the McCain ticket as the ticket that can transcend party politics. At least that will be a major talking point going forward and will probably be fairly effective in the independent voting block.

* except John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Andrew Johnson, Chester A. Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, Harry S. Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson, and Gerald Ford. Note four of the nine took the Oath after an assassination and four took the oath after a death of natural causes.

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:58 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2008 12:52:24 PM

Quote :

"I <3 Sara Palin "

8/29/2008 12:53:52 PM

Quote :

"many Obama supporters are saying that the experience issue is the biggest argument in favor of this being a bad pick"

see i don't completely get that either...how does Palin change the FACT that McCain has more experience than Obama? Is Palin running for President or something?

8/29/2008 12:54:15 PM

Nice pick McCain. You just totally flip-flopped on your own #1 issue "ready from Day 1".

She has no credible experience...1 1/2 years of one of the least populated states.

No foreign policy experience.

She is not your woman change candidate politician. Anti-abortion, Pro-gun, anti-gay marriage, tax breaks for Big Oil... Yeah McCain she is JUST like Clinton. She is not "change". Republicans by definition are pro-status quo or let the market figure things out. And guess what, she's a Republican.

People are going to see this for what it is for, and that McCain insulting Obama and Clinton's historic year by saying "Oooh oh lookie at us Republicans, we can make history too guys!".

This should be a hoot. This was a crude and shady political calculation by Rove and old elite guard GOP standard bearers.

8/29/2008 12:57:56 PM

Thanks for putting out your reasons....I see what you are saying but I don't think that's giving McCain an edge at all.

How's she going to get independent or dem women when she is..

- Very vocal pro-lifer.
- Wants to drill ANWR, doesn't care about enviroment
- She is a creationist! Anti-science and science in classrooms. A vocal one at that.

?

8/29/2008 12:57:58 PM

Quote :

"I <3 Sara Palin "

Me too!

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:01 PM. Reason : But it's "Sarah." Sorry. ]

8/29/2008 12:59:25 PM

this seems like a good pick simply from how riled up the Dems are getting about it

8/29/2008 12:59:28 PM

^ LOL! Yep!

8/29/2008 1:01:50 PM

How does picking a conservative governor do anything to appear bipartisan? How does being attacked make someone appear bipartisan or post-partisan? If you are right that will be great for Obama.

Also, you kind of left off the last 2 VPs. Are you really arguing that Gore and Cheney haven't elevated the role and shown the importance of a VP?



Palin's lack of experience is a bigger issue for McCain than many candidates due to his age. If anything it elevates the age issue. I'm not sure "Don't worry, I won't die," will resonate with voters.

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:03 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2008 1:02:15 PM

I believe there are a good number of independent women who lean to the Right - just as many that lean to the left. As I mentioned Roe v. Wade is only one issue and not necessarily a non-starter for even most independent women.

Drilling in ANWR can be used to the Republican's advantage. If anything it highlights the fact that a large majority of the state itself wants to drill in ANWR.

The last point can be overcome by her simply staying silent and dodging the issue during questioning. Still, it is a possible weakness if she continues strong vocal support of the issue.

8/29/2008 1:03:18 PM

Quote :

"She is under state investigation. She fired her state trooper brother-n-law who was beating up her sister. "

I fail to see that as an ethical flaw. If he can't control his behavior in private, it's doubtful he would be able to do so under the protection of a gun and badge, especially since the behavior is question is a crime. Sounds like she identified a problem and eliminated it before it became a real problem.

8/29/2008 1:04:19 PM

McCain is 6 years older than Biden

i like how Obama supporters like to portray McCain as someone who is 96 years old and on life support, when their VP candidate is only 6 years younger

8/29/2008 1:05:31 PM

Or Obama as young and inexperienced when Palin is several years younger and has no national level experience and very little state level.

8/29/2008 1:07:51 PM

Quote :

"Wouldn't you all say that McCain and his people did a better job of keeping the Palin announcement a secret and a surprise than Obama and his people did with Biden? I want a president that can keep a secret and surprise people when necessary."

Yea why should the public know what's actually going on. That couldn't possibly go wrong.

8/29/2008 1:08:55 PM

Quote :

"this seems like a good pick simply from how riled up the Dems are getting about it"

Exactley. When Biden got picked....the right was just kinda *shrug*, whatever. The libs are soo up in arms about this pick. "Ofcourse McCain only picked her because she's a woman!"

The left can't use her lack of experience because their presidential candidate has just as little experience.

8/29/2008 1:10:49 PM

Quote :

"Obama as young and inexperienced when Palin is several years younger and has no national level experience and very little state level."

i didnt know Palin was running for President

8/29/2008 1:11:34 PM

Sorry and although she's hot and will make a temporary bump in the polls...the whole 'out of left field' factor will work for a couple weeks but clearly there are serious pitfalls to this hail mary, and that's why I'm even more excited about the pick.

Quote :

" - Her experience. She forfeits the McCain campaign's attack that Barack Obama is too inexperienced (more on this in a moment). She ran for governor of Alaska - a position she's held for all of a year and a half. - Token woman. Because no regular American outside of Alaska has heard of Governor Palin, one questions why she was put on the ticket. Seeing her thin list of accomplishments, it's easy to conclude it's a transparent ploy to siphon women voters and nothing more. It's the ultimate pander. Hillary Clinton - who has the necessary credibility among the voters this decision targets - could have a field day with this decision and campaign against odds on her and destroy her credentials. - JMcCain's judgment. This plays nicely into the Obama campaign's criticism of McCain's judgment. "You had your choice of dozens of qualified picks, and you chose her? This is who you trust to lead a country at war on two different fronts; a country in economic peril; a country facing new challenges every day in rising fuel and food costs, Russian aggression abroad, and the crisis of global warming?" - John McCain's age. He's 72 years old. Age was a liability before. Are people comfortable with the idea of "President Palin"? I remember an ad from the 1988 campaign similarly questioning a "President Quayle". Prior to that, a very effective ad from the 1968 campaign about "President Agnew".... - Oil. Lots of discussion about her relationship to big oil and gas (Oil and Gas Commission appointee, other Alaska lawmakers, outsourcing pipeline construction to Canada, husband with BP - it's like mini-Cheney without the foreign policy experience) - Biden. While he has to be mindful of the media looking for him to "bully" Palin in a debate, this is no contest. Biden's fire and tendency to go off-message is a concern that he may inadvertantly say something "mean", but you have to love the matchup. - Troopergate. She's being investigated folks."

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:22 PM. Reason : -]

8/29/2008 1:14:12 PM

i like how you just cut and paste DailyKos without ever citing the source

let alone earlier when you cut and pasted DailyKos and you said it was from a republican point of view

wtf is wrong with you?

8/29/2008 1:15:31 PM

Quote :

"wtf is wrong with you?"

8/29/2008 1:17:23 PM

It was from 538, not dailykos.

Here's some quotes then:

From Town Hall's Ron Fournier:

Quote :

"If Obama is an empty suit, as McCain has suggested, is Palin suited for the Oval Office herself? She is younger and less experienced than the first-term Illinois senator, and brings an ethical shadow to the ticket. Just 20 months ago, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town of 6,500 where the biggest issue is controlling growth and the biggest annual worry is whether there will be enough snow for the Iditarod dog-mushing race. "

From MSNBC's Joe Scarborough:

Quote :

" It Sounds Like a Harriet Miers Decision. Let's Find a Woman, Whether She's Experienced or Not. "

Quote :

""She Just Is Not Ready to Be Commander-in-Chief" [said] Pat Buchanan on MSNBC just now, about Sarah Palin. I'm liable to agree. "

[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:18 PM. Reason : - ]

8/29/2008 1:17:58 PM

Palin might have been a good choice, in that it could have gotten the disaffected Hillary supporters as it obviously was calculated to do... but McCain fucked it up.

and here's why:

after Hillary's unifying speech on Tuesday, the group-hug-fest nomination on Wednesday, and then last night's absolutely amazing nomination speech, practically ALL of the fence-sitting Hillary supporters are now FULLY on board the Obama bus.

if he had picked Palin 2 weeks ago, given time for her bio to be propagated through the media and the water coolers across the nation, allowed her a few press conference speeches.... a lot of Hillary supporters may very well have made their switch.

but this is too late. they're already committed. the DNC nomination process was cathartic and unifying almost to a person.

McCain missed the boat.

all he's going to get now are a few previously-disaffected pro-life evangelical women to be more enthusiastic about voting for him.



[Edited on August 29, 2008 at 1:22 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2008 1:19:49 PM

actually its from DailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/124122/618/965/578727

^somebody sounds awfully worried

8/29/2008 1:19:50 PM

LOL, the Democrat attack machine is out in force.

8/29/2008 1:20:04 PM

No I was referring to the 'republican point of view' post

8/29/2008 1:21:36 PM

news flash twista:

thats just not from kos. thats pretty much from every media outlet in existence. not to mention all common sense arguments.

since when did you become GOP's mouthpiece man?

8/29/2008 1:21:59 PM

^^also from DailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/104611/395

^newsflash...the original source of both of those is DailyKos

8/29/2008 1:22:32 PM