theres plenty of things that govt has been involved in from the start that failed miserably and caused more problems than they solved

9/18/2008 5:34:34 PM

Quote :

"theres plenty of things that govtprivate sector has been involved in from the start that failed miserably and caused more problems than they solved"

9/18/2008 5:38:04 PM

Quote :

"Any time the govt makes things easier and more accessible to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it, shit goes wrong. I swear to all that is holy that I wish Darwin was alive today to run for Pres"

I wish he were alive too so he could tell you to stop misapplying his principles.

Quote :

"hilarious that this guy says its not fair to characterize people in a certain way"

Reread what I said; I hope you'll figure out the error in your reasoning, but I am not holding my breath.

9/18/2008 5:41:57 PM

you constantly unfairly characterize groups of people

yet you say its not fair characterize the democrats as a whole as being for big govt

no re-read necessary, just pointing out your hypocrisy which you're obviously too stubborn to admit

9/18/2008 5:46:32 PM

Look people...

I made a blanket statement and of course I don't 100% with it because that would make me ignorant....and a Republican...neither of which I am. However, I resent when people who know better, fuck up...and then want to be rescued. Much like I think those fucking morons who COULD have evacuated somewhere where they were told they SHOULD...and DIDN'T and then uses up resources when they end up getting 'fucked' for not evacuating...I apply this to everyone because I live by this rule and everyone else should too.

Do I think that people who are mentally handicapped should have government help? Absolutely...they don't know better. Do I think that people who are unemployed and have to provide for their children should be helped by the government? For a period of time sure...but if they got into that situation and had 2 kids at the time, and now have 5 kids, then send them to a deserted island right after kid #3 is born.

Do I think that companies, that are/were backed by the government should get help when their shit fails should get help from that same government to save them? Absolutely not.

You know there was a freeway somewhere in AZ where they used tax money to build a pedestrian bridge across it. Not because there weren't other ways around it, but because one person decided that he didn't want to go there but rather decided to cross the actual freeway and was killed. So some dumb fucking moron knew better (he wasn't handicapped) and decided to say, 'FUCK IT' and then his family members made such a stink about it that they built a bridge so that the next time that a fucking retard wants to cross the freeway, they can, without getting killed. Misapplying Darwin's principles? This is exactly what he meant. Strong survive and procreate creating more strong and the weak die off therefore not creating more weak.

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 6:12 PM. Reason : stupid ghost]

9/18/2008 6:10:31 PM

how hard do u guys work. hard working dudes. how many hours u put in. workin hard playin hard. how many gallons of sweat do u drip off ur brow each day. how much dollars per sweat do u get from ur hard work.

9/18/2008 6:14:00 PM

Those must be statements because I see no question marks.

9/18/2008 6:28:09 PM

^^ anyone care to translate?

Quote :

"no wonder the democrats want to tax the rich. they want to tax the hard working republicans. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CELEBRITIES THAT ARE DEMOCRATS AND RICH???!?!?!??? "

maybe it's an easy come, easy go thing. most of those people don't become multimillionaires the hard way, and don't have the same appreciation for what it takes to get rich as, say, I do.

Quote :

"I swear to all that is holy that I wish Darwin was alive today to run for Pres""

he wasn't a natural-born American citizen, though.

Quote :

"yet you say its not fair characterize the democrats as a whole as being for big govt "

i think it's pretty damned fair to characterize Democrats as being for big government. the exceptions are very, very few and far between.

of course, Republicans are nowadays more often than not for big government, too...there are probably a few more exceptions on the GOP side, and at least a few of the rest of them pay the concept some lip service from time to time.

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : asdfasdfasd]

9/18/2008 6:31:58 PM

^^^Yeah...I don't get that

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : ]

9/18/2008 6:32:10 PM

are we not in a cycle of government backed banks over lending (due to the government backing) and thus in time falling only to be bailed out again? repeat repeat?

i can't help but feel libertarian on this one. These banks wouldnt be so stupid if they were 100% liable for the outcome.

$85 billion of our tax dollars just went to bail out a private bank.. yeh, maybe it was necessary to save the short term economy, but the principle is wrong. would we better off in the long wrong by breaking the cycling and letting some doom and gloom in as a wake up call?

9/18/2008 6:45:32 PM

It's a perfect satire post. Bravo.

9/18/2008 6:45:46 PM

^^ that's the big reason i say that this mess is both a result of too much and not enough regulation.

mostly it's just a result of people being dumb and getting themselves burned, and i think that, to the max extent possible, we should just let them (both individuals and companies) learn the hard way.

9/18/2008 6:48:42 PM

Quote :

"are we not in a cycle of government backed banks over lending (due to the government backing) and thus in time falling only to be bailed out again? repeat repeat? i can't help but feel libertarian on this one. These banks wouldnt be so stupid if they were 100% liable for the outcome. $85 billion of our tax dollars just went to bail out a private bank.. yeh, maybe it was necessary to save the short term economy, but the principle is wrong. would we better off in the long wrong by breaking the cycling and letting some doom and gloom in as a wake up call?"

IT does seem things like this are cyclical, but I don't think the lassize-faire approace is the right one in this case. History has shown countless times that people don't learn their lessons. Regulations are far more persistent than peoples' memories, and if a simple rule in place would have prevented this problem, why not have it? Why wait for the cycle to happen again, let people "learn their lesson" for another 10 years, only for the next generation to start from scratch?

9/18/2008 7:07:07 PM

Quote :

"Misapplying Darwin's principles? This is exactly what he meant. Strong survive and procreate creating more strong and the weak die off therefore not creating more weak. "

*Carlface*

9/18/2008 7:12:06 PM

Quote :

"aren't the last few days proof that the more government involvement the worse off we are? "

LOL

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.

I find it hard to blame the liberals on the current crisis. I am surprised someone has not yet tried to pass the buck to Bill's Policies during the 90's "ZOMG changes in economic policies take a while to make an effect" as the excuse was during the tech bubble to alleviate Bush of blame. Well I am afraid if this is the case the blame can just as easily be put on the pre 2006 GOP congress and Bush.

Changes to economic policy made by the Dems, which btw was probably minimal due to a narrow margin of majority as well as Bush's veto pin, would not have really been fully seen by the time the housing bubble collapsed last year. Although we could attribute the dem congress for not reacting enough.

9/18/2008 7:14:03 PM

Quote :

"how hard do u guys work. hard working dudes. how many hours u put in. workin hard playin hard. how many gallons of sweat do u drip off ur brow each day. how much dollars per sweat do u get from ur hard work."

11ty

I make a good deal only b/c i'm probably one of the best in my field and that didn't come through some magical gift from god. you don't even believe god.

so in your terms it's survival of the fittest. I'm fucking more fit than you and will always be.

I'm not a stupid fucking moron that gets rich overnight and takes out a giant mortgage just to lose my job the next day and expect presidente obama to come in and save my ass by making all the other people pay for it.

I am more evolved and more fit than a whining democrat and don't need a clown house full of Oprah tactics to try and help me get a free pot of grits every once and a while.

I clown on ngrs like you b/c I'm smart and I work hard and I don't carry a credit card debt. I will outsurvive you and I will vote for the president that allows the hardworking evolved humans to survive with me.

That way when the tough times come, instead of making my family rely on social services, I'll help them out more than some government ever could. This is also why I won't abort children. Everybody has this equal opportunity I've given myself. None of you can take it away and I'm just thankful that my parents weren't hippies with no moral code.

You lose democrats. You always will. You'll always need your government as a crutch. You'll always be less evolved than us and you'll always be whining about it.

pwned

9/18/2008 7:17:39 PM

it must take talent to be so right and so wrong at the same time.

9/18/2008 7:19:34 PM

lol. and to answer his question I put in about 10-11 working hours a day.

9/18/2008 7:20:08 PM

csharp is such second rate trolling

it's transparent and isn't even genuinely funny (from any perspective)

9/18/2008 7:23:27 PM

Quote :

"[quote]are we not in a cycle of government backed banks over lending (due to the government backing) and thus in time falling only to be bailed out again? repeat repeat? i can't help but feel libertarian on this one. These banks wouldnt be so stupid if they were 100% liable for the outcome. $85 billion of our tax dollars just went to bail out a private bank.. yeh, maybe it was necessary to save the short term economy, but the principle is wrong. would we better off in the long wrong by breaking the cycling and letting some doom and gloom in as a wake up call?"

IT does seem things like this are cyclical, but I don't think the lassize-faire approace is the right one in this case. History has shown countless times that people don't learn their lessons. Regulations are far more persistent than peoples' memories, and if a simple rule in place would have prevented this problem, why not have it? Why wait for the cycle to happen again, let people "learn their lesson" for another 10 years, only for the next generation to start from scratch?[/quote]

What kind of rule? I mean sure, we have rules like the 'no monopoly' rule in place to help check a free market. What kind of rule do you have in mind in this instance?

9/18/2008 7:23:48 PM

LOL

Quote :

"I'm not a stupid fucking moron that gets rich overnight and takes out a giant mortgage just to lose my job my job as a CEO of a large investment company that goes bankrupt then the next day expect presidente obama George W to ask the tresury/fed to come in and save my ass by making all the other people pay for it. I am more evolved and more fit than a whining democrat Redneck bitching that the mexicans are Taking Are Jobs pick berries and doing landscaping and don't need a clown house full of Oprah tactics Rush Limbough to try and help me get a free pot of grits every once and a while feel good by blaming my ignorant simple lifestyle in the trailer park on minorities and liberals."

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 7:37 PM. Reason : l]

9/18/2008 7:37:01 PM

you really need to stfu with your "they took our jobs" shit...you've probably posted it like 500 times (no exaggeration)

i dont disagree with your overall view that each side has tons of issues, and i also use far right or far left stereotypes to make points, but simmer the hell down on your DEY TURK UR JOBS thing

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 7:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/18/2008 7:37:38 PM

and you have the time to do that shit. lol^^




[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 7:39 PM. Reason : a]

9/18/2008 7:39:12 PM

They have some crazy robots at my company that run the warehouse. They magically find the boxes off the investory rack; pick them off the conveyor, sort the cases according to the 100's of parallel orders, and even somehow gently packs each box placing them on a pallet for shipment.

Those 10 damn robots probably replaced about 40 hard working AMERICANS. They are worse than the illegals because they work for FREE!!! I am surprised this has not come up as a hot button issue in politics yet. Those robots tuk my friends Jerb!!

9/18/2008 7:40:34 PM

Quote :

"I am surprised this has not come up as a hot button issue in politics yet"

it has...20 years ago when tens of thousands of factory workers were losing their jobs to robotics

9/18/2008 7:41:52 PM

^ robots don't work for free, it takes electricity and maintenance costs to run them. They probably work for below minimum wage though.

9/18/2008 7:42:17 PM

hur would have made a great politician

































in the 60's

9/18/2008 7:43:01 PM

Quote :

"They have some crazy robots at my company that run the warehouse. They magically find the boxes off the investory rack; pick them off the conveyor, sort the cases according to the 100's of parallel orders, and even somehow gently packs each box placing them on a pallet for shipment."

That's so hot.

Expect to see more of this in the future.

9/18/2008 7:44:41 PM

Quote :

"when tens of thousands of factory workers were losing their jobs to robotics"

u are right; but part of politics is bringing up issues that people forgot about and using them as a distraction of the real issues.

9/18/2008 7:47:05 PM

Obviously you don't understand that people were borrowing/spending well beyond their means for years and its finally caught up with us. Given there was some predatory lending going on and whatnot, but no one forced the hands of those who signed on variable rate mortgages. They made their own bed and now they have to lie in it.

Also, they borrowed before the housing market dropped, if they could afford it then, they should be able to afford it now. Those who can't didn't plan accordingly. I know life can throw us all curveballs, but thats why you have to plan for allowances in your budget to offset unforseen costs. Once again, those who didn't are the ones in trouble and it is their own fault.

What does it all come down to in the end? Personal Responsibility, no one has a right to own a house, we must all spend within our means and budget our money.

9/18/2008 7:48:24 PM

Quote :

"They have some crazy robots at my company that run the warehouse. They magically find the boxes off the investory rack; pick them off the conveyor, sort the cases according to the 100's of parallel orders, and even somehow gently packs each box placing them on a pallet for shipment. "

If only the government could be so efficient... They'd surely put DMV workers on the job.. throw in a few post office employees and an IRS agent and they'd be golden...

9/18/2008 7:50:46 PM

^^ The borrowers are only 1/10th of this issue. The main issue is the lenders who took their loans and packaged them up as CDOs in a way to inflate their rating, then sold these CDOs that they knew to be backed by sketchy loans as the highest-rated level of security (essentially fooling the buyers in to thinking they were safe). If it wasn't for this process, we wouldn't have had the problems we're having now.

If the people borrowing money just couldn't pay for it, the lenders would be out that amount. But the lenders tried to sell the bad loans as good investments, significantly amplifying the amount of money that's being lost.

The lenders are what caused most of this problem, not the borrowers. We could let all the borrowers default, and it would be a relatively small portion of the money being spent to bail out these investment banks.

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

9/18/2008 7:52:49 PM

the commodity futures modernization act removed regulations and freed financial institutions from oversight of their CDS transactions

financial instutitions can now take on bad debt because the risk is passed on to insurers or other investors. they can lend money without fully knowing the risks because there is now no federal oversight.

shit hits the fan

the CDSs have to be paid for all of the bonds that probably wouldn't have been made if there wasn't this risk free opportunity.

this triggers a chain reaction that involves trillions of dollars and threatens to take down many other markets

but yeah... more government is bad

Quote :

"Obviously you don't understand that people were borrowing/spending well beyond their means for years and its finally caught up with us."

thats not what is taking down the major financial institutions, you don't have a very good understanding of this situation

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 7:54 PM. Reason : .]

9/18/2008 7:53:18 PM

I blame both predatory lending, unfair loan practices in the fine print, people living above their means, and people unresponsively using debt. Both are to blame and both are suffering. I do not think every Avg Joe should be bailed out of his mortgage or horrendous debt. However, we can't just bail out our friends in Big Business while letting the people flap in the breeze.

9/18/2008 7:53:39 PM

Quote :

"However, we can't just bail out our friends in Big Business while letting the people flap in the breeze."

there is a reason why governments all over the world are flooding money into the markets right now, because the price of letting some of these institutions fail would be too high for everyone

9/18/2008 7:55:53 PM

its kind of ironic that SOME of the people who are completely endorsing all these govt bailouts for these financial institutions also seemed to be heavily opposed to any govt bailouts to farmers...food is kind of important you know

9/18/2008 7:56:10 PM

Quote :

"its kind of ironic that SOME of the people who are completely endorsing all these govt bailouts for these financial institutions also seemed to be heavily opposed to any govt bailouts to farmers...food is kind of important you know"

Only ironic if you're in a position of epistemic infancy

Oh hi TreeTwista I didn't see you standing there

Do you seriously think liberals hate food too?

9/18/2008 7:57:16 PM

oh look an alias and his strawmen

do you think conservatives hate money and houses?

9/18/2008 7:58:20 PM

You must be disoriented or something.

Allow me to remind you on which side of the issue the GOP stands so you know where to plant your knees.

9/18/2008 8:00:18 PM

i love the GOP so much that i always vote for them

9/18/2008 8:00:44 PM

what the hell are you even talking about?

9/18/2008 8:01:46 PM

pooljobs can you be a little more specific?

are you referring to most of my posts in this thread which are genuine, or are you referring to my last 2 posts which were simply dumbing things down to Str8foolish the troll's posting level when he decided to come in and derail the thread?

9/18/2008 8:06:10 PM

Perhaps my understanding of economics is not complete and this may sound naive, but where does all the money go when analysts says "billions/trillions" were lost???

Does the money simply somehow vanish or is someone hoarding it in a saving account or something.

9/18/2008 9:05:23 PM

how did the stupid fucking idiot democrat get rich overnight btw

9/18/2008 9:09:42 PM

^^they have to cover all the cdss

9/18/2008 9:47:12 PM

If Dems believe in big government, how come the deficit rises so damn much under Republican presidents?

:repare for Backpedaling::

9/18/2008 10:10:14 PM

Quote :

"How about we trade FCC regulation for something that regulates the stock market? "

For the same reason the gov't doesn't regulate a horse race so that everyone who bets wins. The stock market is one big gambling house. If you want to play, then don't come crying to the gov't when you lose and get abused.

There is nothing in the Constitution that protects you while gambling.

9/18/2008 10:18:22 PM

The problem isn't the deregulation of an industry it was government involvement in the first place that caused this mess. If there hadn't been pressure from the govt on the banks to issue loans to people that they know could not afford then we would not be in this mess. Why for all these years has this never been a problem? Well that is because these banks and other financial institutions are in things for profit and they do not want to make loans that people will not pay back. When the govt comes in and pressures them to do so anyways and pretty much winks at them saying don't worry we will cover it if things go wrong, then you have problems.

Before you start to respond I said nothing about republicans or democrats because I believe that neither have their hands clean in this mess.

9/18/2008 11:11:52 PM

actually with gambling there are rules to assure that you will be aware of all risks and your odds of winning. before the commodity futures modernization act banks underwrote mortgages but with CDSs the risk is passed on allowing lenders to make loans without knowing the risks.

Quote :

" If there hadn't been pressure from the govt on the banks to issue loans to people that they know could not afford then we would not be in this mess. "

deregulation encouraged this, not the other way around

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 11:17 PM. Reason : .\]

9/18/2008 11:16:09 PM

Quote :

"If there hadn't been pressure from the govt on the banks to issue loans to people that they know could not afford then we would not be"

Arguing between liberal hippy douches and redneck conservative jackasses could go around and around. Libs could argue more regulation would have kept in check aggressive shady loans by the banks to make money on the ignorant common joe. Conservatives could argue that jesse jackson affirmitive action types pressured the banking industry to allow "equal opporunity" to all home buyers; although in reality they couldn't afford.

Neither is right. The housing bust and the current crisis on wall street are merely symptoms of larger problems. Truly do I believe a paradigm shift is needed if we want to maintain our USA #1 status and to prevent shit from hitting the fan.

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason : a]

9/18/2008 11:24:56 PM