If people are selling because of capital gains right now, it doesn't make much sense to me. We've known for a while Obama was going to win, you're only fooling yourself if Tuesday night was a surprise. You've also got until Dec. 31st to unload your capital gains pre Obama, and I would think the market between now and then will touch 10K at some point, so I'd wait until it hits 10K to unload long term gains if you're scared of Obama. Just curious, how many on here have a singificant % of thier portfolio in things they've held 12 months?? I know some ETF's get taxed at 60/40 capital/regular income regardless of how long you've held it. Also, to the OP, did you miss The week of October 10th when we had a 777 point selloff in one day, and 400 of that 777 was in the last 90 minutes, which essentially is 90% of this EPIC two day loss? Also, we're still 12% higher than that intra day low a couple Friday's ago (think it dipped to 7800???)....And besdies, I'll worry about capital gains when I have....capital gains


[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 5:02 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2008 4:57:34 PM

the market is not going near 10k again for a while

11/6/2008 5:06:15 PM

Quote :

"I guess if I was 31 and didn’t understand how investments work, I would be ignorant too"

You don't even know the difference between IRAs and 401ks. You are in fact the guy that said this

Quote :

"Everyone needs to watch your 401ks as it will be taken from you and given to Social Security..."

:facepalm:

11/6/2008 5:40:47 PM

Plus it's not just a "few thousand" dollars in an IRA. That calculator has you contributing 200 dollars a month initially and increasing as the years go by.

11/6/2008 5:58:16 PM

Quote :

"the market is not going near 10k again for a while"

I too, lol'd at his 20% gain estimate in 2 months during a recession

11/6/2008 6:13:25 PM

it will go to the mid 6000 and bottom up and begin to rise slowly. this will not be the fault of obama could take until the first month or so of his term to play out.

as for previous things said. anyone would be a fool to liquidate their assets now before any new laws have been enacted in anticipation of what is to come. they could easily continue to make the gains and then sell it at the end of hte year as someone said above. if these really are true captains of enterprise they would be well aware of this litlte fact.

11/6/2008 7:52:26 PM

For those interested, in the 1990's during the Clinton administration, there was a plan by democrats to levy a one-time 15% tax on the outstanding balance of all private pension and 401K retirement plans. Luckily, it never happened.

I'm just glad the Democrats don't have a filibuster proof senate.

Just some food for thought.

11/6/2008 9:42:41 PM

Citigroup, Wells Fargo, and BOA all took it on the chin today.

11/6/2008 10:00:05 PM

look at today's rise in stocks so far...i guess that makes obama the best president ever and proves the people have complete faith in his economic plan.

normally i would suggest that it is standard market volatility, but the repubs in this thread have taught me otherwise.

11/7/2008 10:43:43 AM

150 point mid day rebound != 900 point loss

Quote :

"it will go to the mid 6000 and bottom up and begin to rise slowly. this will not be the fault of obama could take until the first month or so of his term to play out. "

Funny that the big stink of this election was over the economy and here you are saying that there is nothing Obama can do to change it....it just has to "play out."

11/7/2008 1:07:23 PM

CAN WE PLEASE GET OVER IT?

11/7/2008 1:08:02 PM

Quote :

"150 point mid day rebound != 900 point loss"

i was really pointing out the volatility and demonstrating that it isn't necessarily related to one thing or the other.

Also i'm not saying there isn't anything that he can do about it. As a president he is in a position to make things better or worse for the long-term, but things that continue to take place over the next few months (up to 4 or maybe 6 from now) aren't going to be a direct result of anything that he has done, even if the market would go up to 15000.

so i'm not saying there is nothing that he can do to change it but i am saying that while he is not in office what happens in the market will not be directly associated with him, whether it be good or bad.

11/7/2008 1:14:51 PM

Quote :

"if the market would go up to 15000."

11/7/2008 1:16:35 PM

Quote :

"i am saying that while he is not in office what happens in the market will not be directly associated with him, whether it be good or bad. "

that's not what the public was led to believe in this election

11/7/2008 1:21:00 PM

am i not a member of the public? its what i believe. How was I led, specifically. What specific things were said that made the public believe that between the first minute of taking office and the first weeks following inauguration that anything that happened in the economy would be due to obama. i know no one who thinks this way. it may have been a take you had on things but i don't think anyone who actually voted for him thought this way and it would be next to impossible for you to believe that he did.

11/7/2008 1:26:27 PM

Democrat elected, stocks tank. We should know this by now.

11/7/2008 1:28:19 PM

Stocks are up 170 today. Obama's policies changed things fast.

11/7/2008 1:29:23 PM

Quote :

"What specific things were said "

Specifics?
Yes that is what everyone has been asking for the entire campaign.
However, up until recently, Obama and everyone in the media were touting how Obama was going to fix the economy in the short run for the working class and relieve the crisis for those struggling day to day.

Of course you get to his first speech as president elect and he is already back peddling to 2012.....asking for an extension before he even gets started.

All this man has ever done is campaign for his next vote

11/7/2008 2:20:27 PM

WWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Way to pick and choose which part of the question you want to answer in the hopes that no one will call you out on the deluded little reality you've created for yourself...

11/7/2008 2:22:03 PM

there were only 2 questions asked
do you want me to comment on membership to the "public"?

Specifics were asked for.
I, too, am asking for specifics.

Are you saying that he didn't say he was going to fix the economy?
Are you saying that he didn't ask for more time to fix the economy that, prior to his election, he was proclaiming he would be better solving sooner?

Most of the points on this board end with some liberal bitching about specifics that would take a hour and a page to produce even though they are already aware of the points

This election was about the economy. Why don't you show me where Obama said that anything that happens within the next 6 months will have no correlation with him being president. You can't because he would never want to lead the public to believe that. But you have just said it here.

11/7/2008 2:36:08 PM

Are you really a Finance major? That is a scary thought.

You seem to be crafting a bit of an alternate reality for yourself.

Quote :

"However, up until recently, Obama and everyone in the media were touting how Obama was going to fix the economy in the short run for the working class and relieve the crisis for those struggling day to day."

Actually, the people feel like he is the better man for the job. They ran on a campaign of not another 8 years of Bush, not a "I will fix this economy within 3 days of being elected". I'll give you the part about specifics and as an Obama voter, this is what I struggled with the most. Barring that, I looked to who he was surrounding himself with on economic policy, and let me tell you, his advisers trounce McCains people. Trounce. He's already had one conference call with the likes of Buffett, Rubin, Volcker, Summers, and a couple of other private industry reps (TWC head I think) to discuss this economy. This is clearly a man on the mission and I already feel happy about my vote.

Quote :

"Of course you get to his first speech as president elect and he is already back peddling to 2012.....asking for an extension before he even gets started. "

I'd rather have someone tell it to me straight than bullshit me. And anyway, he said in campaign speeches it was going to take time to fix the economy. Stop with the sour grapes and trying to act like anything he is saying now is different than before. Did you even pay attention before?

Quote :

"Why don't you show me where Obama said that anything that happens within the next 6 months will have no correlation with him being president. You can't because he would never want to lead the public to believe that. But you have just said it here."

I disagree with Stoned on this point. The tough medicine that has to come is forcing the bad debt on the banks books into the open. The market will purge some more, unemployment will go up more, the economy isn't going to avoid going into a recession. The difference in plans will be whether we fuck it up worse with the wrong government meddling, or if we can come up with a comprehensive plan to get the wheels moving in the right direction again (like, national infrastructure upgrades, new energy initiatives, etc).

11/7/2008 2:49:44 PM

Actually, I never said anything other than this Norrin Radd dude was making shit up to fit into his reality, which you already agreed with...

11/7/2008 2:57:37 PM

Quote :

"They ran on a campaign of not another 8 years of Bush"

you are correct, however...

The entire quote was look at how bush has screwed up the economy, we can't "afford" more of the same. Who is crafting what? Are you saying there is no implication there?

So you voted for Obama's advisors.....not the man himself. This is somthing I have long believed in. I don't understand why we don't get to know the presidents cabinet until after they are elected. These are the decision makers and we have no say in who is chosen.

And yes I paid close attention before, being an independent, and you could see the gradual progression in his speaches when it became clear that he had the lead. He shifted his goals from 4 years to 8 years, looking to lock that image of 2 terms in voters minds

11/7/2008 3:13:34 PM

Quote :

"Actually, I never said anything other than this Norrin Radd dude was making shit up to fit into his reality, which you already agreed with..."

Sorry, I meant seriouscat.

Quote :

"The entire quote was look at how bush has screwed up the economy, we can't "afford" more of the same. Who is crafting what? Are you saying there is no implication there?"

I guess you are right, the implication is there, however, it is just that. You are greatly exaggerating the language that was used leading up the the election.

Quote :

"So you voted for Obama's advisors.....not the man himself. This is something I have long believed in. I don't understand why we don't get to know the presidents cabinet until after they are elected. These are the decision makers and we have no say in who is chosen."

Yes, this was a piece of the puzzle for me.

Quote :

"He shifted his goals from 4 years to 8 years, looking to lock that image of 2 terms in voters minds"

Maybe you paid closer attention than I did, but I'd offer that in the first half of the year, the slowing economy didn't look like an 8 year problem. It looked like a financial/bank issue and a correction in home prices. Something that certainly should work itself out sooner than later. By the mid point of the year that had turned into a full blown bubble burst and by September it had reached crisis levels. Now, what we are staring at is one of the weakest recession recoveries in history post 2000 crash, wages that didn't keep up with production efficiency gains, house prices artificially inflated and a massive amount of fake GDP created, consumers that are spent out, and a huge bulk of mfg jobs that have long since been shipped overseas. Just what does America offer the world anymore? In the 90s it was the rise in tech, that was something worth selling. Since 2000 we've offered up bullshit paper wealth. Here's to hoping someone figures out a new direction.

11/7/2008 3:23:08 PM

it didn't look like an 8 year problem if you weren't paying attention.....however i remember saying to a coworker the day that the dow topped 14,000 that it was time to pull out because they economy wasn't there to support those numbers. Hell the value of my parents home doubled in 10 years. An average 8% return per year on home values should have indicated to you that shti was inflated. I've seen estimates that 90% of our jobs are service related. We produce almost no raw good anymore, because it cost so much to do it here.

It is my belief that unions have shot them selves in the foot by driving up wages all these years. Their companies can't compete with that kind of over head, and now they are losing their jobs all together.

You can only think about me me me for so long. Now you're employeer can't compete and is laying off or closing their door all together. You'd be happy with $2 less an hour now that your out of a job wouldn't you.

I'm not saying there aren't employeers that exploit their workers, but there are workers that exploit their employeers as well. Earn your place in the workforce, don't have it handed to you by a union.

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 3:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/7/2008 3:47:28 PM

Quote :

"it didn't look like an 8 year problem if you weren't paying attention.....however i remember saying to a coworker the day that the dow topped 14,000 that it was time to pull out because they economy wasn't there to support those numbers"

Sure buddy, you knew exactly when the market was at it's peak. Why aren't you fantastically rich now? You couldn't have shorted everything in sight with as little as 10 grand and been well on your way.

There are very few folks that saw this mess evolving into the monster it has become. Even the most bearest of bears didn't see the disaster we have on our hands. So, save the "I called it" talk unless you literally have some proof, because no one is believing a finance major from NCSU posting on the wolf web is that clever.

11/7/2008 4:12:35 PM

Where do you guys think they'll have the bread lines? I don't want to have to walk to far...

11/7/2008 4:47:41 PM

umm...Obama isn't in office yet.

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 7:41 PM. Reason : what again did he actually DO???]

11/7/2008 7:40:57 PM

I just upped my 401k contribution.

11/7/2008 8:10:16 PM

Quote :

"with as little as 10 grand and been well on your way"

too bad I was 6 months out of school with enormous student loans and didn't have the capital or ability to get someone to loan me $10,000 cash.

must be nice to have the life where you think everyone can pull $10,000 out of their ass when ever they feel like it.

the dow went from around 12,500 when i started working to 14,000 in 5-6 months, with no real progress in our economy. Just because you are to stupid to see a bubble doesn't mean I am. The other clue is that everyone and their brother was getting a contractors license to build houses. The reason for this was huge influx of people moving in from the north and other parts of the country. Those same people were used to paying through the nose for a house where they were from.....so anything here looked like a bargain to them. Cue the inflated home values from the not so dumb southerners making a quick buck of the not so smart notherners.

I was surrounded by people in the industries that were seeing the biggest inflations and my family has been in this area for generations. I have friends and parents of friends that are contractors/realtors and I am in a job where i am watching the market everyday. Do conclude that everyone is as naive as you. I don't claim to have called the top but I do know that 14,000 was an inflated number. In fact to be honest I believed it would drop, but never this much. I was prepared for it to go to around 12,000.....but everything snowballed

11/7/2008 8:16:59 PM

I'm sure all of you are way more qualified than the CEA. I bet Bush and Obama are currently perusing t-dub for tips.

11/7/2008 8:21:58 PM