i was going to pursue the same argument, but i dont care nearly as much as he obviously does, nor do i have the energy to argue about something that is admittedly an unpopular view that i hold

so just let it ride

ALCOHOLIC/CANCER 2012, LETS DO THIS SHIT.

12/24/2008 2:19:43 PM

there has yet to be any scientific evidence pointing towards alcoholism involving an actual specific gene.

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

12/24/2008 2:21:10 PM

Quote :

"yeah, b/c all of those are active personal choices"

and alcoholism is?

how many people do you know have chosen to become an alcoholic?

at the end of the day, your body's ability to process alcohol is not up to you - its up to your genes

or your fucking intelligent design if you're one of those people

you're right, there are probably millions of people out there who carry the genes for alcoholism but have never had a drink, and there are probably millions of people on skid row who are "weak willed" and don't actually have that genetic disorder

but for you fuckers to blanketly dismiss every person addicted to alcohol as some kind of faker, thats despicable

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 2:26 PM. Reason : ^ Pandey et al.?]

12/24/2008 2:23:44 PM

12/24/2008 2:25:32 PM

Quote :

"but for you fuckers to blanketly dismiss every person addicted to alcohol as some kind of faker, thats despicable ignorant"

12/24/2008 2:26:14 PM

making the choice to throw your life away abusing alcohol sounds like a personal choice. a person can't choose their height or the skin color, but they can decide to not drink themselves to death.

12/24/2008 2:28:28 PM

Quote :

" at the end of the day, your body's ability to process alcohol is not up to you - its up to your genes"

you're kidding right?

12/24/2008 2:28:40 PM

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 2:29 PM. Reason : pic fail]

12/24/2008 2:28:55 PM

Quote :

"-3 uncles and 5 great uncles have died of dysentery must be geneticthe oregon trail"

12/24/2008 2:30:53 PM

lol ok that was humorous

12/24/2008 2:31:40 PM

hahahahaha

12/24/2008 2:31:57 PM

Quote :

"you're kidding right?"

i'm not kidding at all

12/24/2008 2:31:57 PM

Quote :

"^ Pandey et al.?"

his research appears to be on alcohol changing DNA function, not on alcoholism being genetic.

12/24/2008 2:32:24 PM

im gonna bump my beer thread in honor of this thread

12/24/2008 2:33:25 PM

Quote :

"making the choice to throw your life away abusing alcohol sounds like a personal choice. a person can't choose their height or the skin color, but they can decide to not drink themselves to death. "

alcohol affects your ability to make proper choices.

12/24/2008 2:37:12 PM

Quote :

"his research appears to be on alcohol changing DNA function, not on alcoholism being genetic."

o rly?

Quote :

"The CREB gene transcription factor regulates the expression of the gene encoding neuropeptide Y (NPY), and decreased concentrations of NPY are implicated in anxiety and alcohol drinking behaviors. Therefore, decreased function of CREB in the central nucleus of the amygdala might regulate anxiety and alcohol intake via decreased expression of NPY, and might provide a common link between anxiety and alcohol abuse disorders. I also suggest that, via CREB, NPY might interact with other CREB target genes, such as the gene encoding brain-derived neurotrophic factor, and that this CREB-mediated interaction might be important in the regulation of anxiety and alcohol drinking behaviors."

Quote :

"Ethanol withdrawal but not treatment significantly decreased the phosphorylation of CREB protein and protein levels of Ca2+/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase IV without modulating the protein levels of total CREB and [alpha]-catalytic subunit of protein kinase A (PKA-C[alpha]) in the central and medial amygdala. However, these changes were not observed in the basolateral amygdala. We also investigated the effects of manipulation of the phosphorylation status of CREB in the central amygdala by infusion of the PKA activator (Sp-cAMPS) or inhibitor (Rp-cAMPS) on anxiety levels in rats during ethanol withdrawal. When Sp-cAMPS is specifically infused into the central amygdala, it dose-dependently normalizes the decrease in CREB phosphorylation and prevents the development of anxiety in rats during ethanol withdrawal. On the other hand, Rp-cAMPS infusions into the central or basolateral amygdala decrease CREB phosphorylation, but only infusion into the central amygdala provokes anxiety and increases alcohol preference in normal rats. We also found that alcohol preference provoked by decreased CREB phosphorylation is related to decreased expression of the neuropeptide Y gene in the central amygdala."

it sounds to me more like his work looks more at how different brain structures respond to alcohol, and looks to identify how these differences come to exist, i.e., possible genetic patterns/differences

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 2:44 PM. Reason : whatever]

12/24/2008 2:43:03 PM

damn

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 2:53 PM. Reason : image didnt work]

12/24/2008 2:52:31 PM

you should read more than that excerpt. He describes how alcohol abuse modifies DNA function and makes withdrawal much more dificult. He doesn't try to claim that alcohics are predisposed to tougher withdrawal to begin with.

12/24/2008 2:54:09 PM

does he offer that all dna can be altered by alcohol?

i'm not going to lie, in papers and journals like that, the abstracts are about the only thing i can keep up with on my own...

12/24/2008 2:55:50 PM

12/24/2008 3:01:03 PM

12/24/2008 3:02:15 PM

^

12/24/2008 3:05:31 PM

WEAK-WILLED

12/24/2008 3:09:26 PM

it has helped in repopulating the earth though

12/24/2008 3:10:51 PM

my mom told me a few times while i was in college to be sure to not get alcohol poisoning but that's about as far as it went

12/24/2008 3:11:49 PM

i got "the talk" back in february when i got really drunk and passed out on the sidewalk in front of a bar in greenville and woke up in the emergency room. something about how almost all of my mom's brothers and sisters are alcoholics and my dad's side has some alcoholics and blah blah blah

12/24/2008 3:20:17 PM

I'm pretty sure "the talk" involves something about sex, which my mom so eloquently described as "it goes in, it comes out."

12/24/2008 3:20:38 PM

yes roll your eyes at your own poor life choices

12/24/2008 3:25:44 PM

Dammit, Otto, you're an alcoholic.
Dammit, Otto, you have lupus.

12/24/2008 3:26:53 PM

i'm saved by the buoyancy of citrus

12/24/2008 3:27:47 PM

Alcoholism itself isn't a personal choice, I guess. Once you're to that point, you often don't have the ability or willpower to get better. At the same time, I'm not willing to fully embrace the progressive view of alcoholism that pretty much says people are powerless to prevent it. In the end, alcoholics are alcoholics because of bad decisions. Yes, it's their fault. That doesn't mean they can get better on their own, though.

12/24/2008 3:34:16 PM

Quote :

"yes roll your eyes at your own poor life choices"

i will, because i know i don't have a problem. i just happened to fuck up one time in my many years of experience with alcohol. it's pretty common to look back on a mistake and brush it off. get off your fuckin high horse, buddy.

12/24/2008 4:13:53 PM

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure "the talk" involves something about sex, which my mom so eloquently described as "it goes in, it comes out.""

and yes, that typically is "the talk"

12/24/2008 4:15:33 PM

well as long as you learned something from the experience

oh wait

12/24/2008 4:19:13 PM

Quote :

"well as long as you learned something from the experience oh wait "

i did, ass. i won't be taking that many shots in such a short amount of time ever again. but maybe i should just quit altogether because ALCOHOLISM is a disease and i can't control my actions or ever act responsible in the presence of it

[Edited on December 24, 2008 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

12/24/2008 4:28:48 PM

Ooops I feel responsible for getting rtc407 into drinking... you still owe me for throwing up on my wall that time! LOL

12/24/2008 4:29:07 PM

well there you go

go on brush yo shoulders off

12/24/2008 4:29:56 PM

Quote :

"diabetics, people with autism, and people with asthma need to man up and stop making bad choices"

I missed you, Woodfoot

12/24/2008 7:55:27 PM