Quote :

"Yes much like your entitlement that compels you to think that society should subsidize your ability to swim to be healthy when you could just as easily jog for free on any sidewalk... or park."

Actually, if the pool weren't there I would just jog in the winter and swim for free all summer. But alas, I'm a person. I don't have a problem with my money going to public services for people. I gladly pay my share for basketball courts and playgrounds for the kids in the city. Where we differ is the thought that dogs deserve some sort of taxpayer subsidy. Dogs are not part of our society. They do not contribute to our society (minus the extremely rare cases where dogs are put to work.) They will not grow up and become functioning members of our society. You have a choice to get a dog. In fact most people "buy" their dog whether it comes from a breeder or through adoption fees. It's basically a commodity. That's why I have no problem saying that if you want to have a dog you should be responsible for it's needs, not me.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM. Reason : l]

2/4/2009 12:36:55 PM

Quote :

"Vix, you're a fucking moron (which most people in here already know)"

Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean I'm stupid.

2/4/2009 12:41:58 PM

^^when it comes down to it, sure dog parks could be financed with a little money from dog owners. But in the grand scheme there are a hell of a lot more things your taxpayer money is being spent on that you should be pissed at the gov't for.

^Oh my mistake, an opinion; based on nothing. You just assumed something about dog parks b/c to you its inconceiveable that dogs could congregate without making noise! Try actually going to a dog park, and then form an opinion based on...oh i dunno, real world experience.

2/4/2009 12:50:28 PM

Quote :

"Where we differ is the thought that dogs deserve some sort of taxpayer subsidy. "

Noone is saying that. It's not as if dog's get to leave the house and trot up to the dog park with their friends. Like I said before, just like the pool contributes to your overall health and happiness, the dog park contributes to mine. I get to be outside and have a big space where I can relax and play with my dogs without worrying who is around or whether my dogs will get hit by a car.

Some people enjoy going to parks with flowers and plants to relax and enjoy nature. I just enjoy my outside time in a different way.

2/4/2009 1:26:59 PM

So now your saying its because of choice... because of adoption? so does that mean adopted children aren't as good as children born to their parents? After all the adoptive parents are making the choice to take in someone that isn't directly related. Walking a thin line there.

Besides not all children are going to become functioning members of our society.. so what should we do with them? Perhaps pen them up 24x7.. oh wait we do, its called jail and mental institution. So now we spend money to grow children who don't function, then spend more on them to stay alive, but not bother us. Genius.

Plus you are once again getting lost in the dogs are = to children argument. What I am saying is subsidy goes to things you don't use, so why a playground for kids and not a park for dogs? I could just as easily say, I don't want my taxes subsidizing art or history museums, local libraries, buses, or one of a million other things, simply because I don't use them or don't have a need for them.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2009 1:55:34 PM

Quote :

"Vix: However, I'm much more staunchly oppposed to government funding for parks of any kind."

What the fuck, dude?

We got a crazy obesity problem, and you wanna shut down public parks?

Public parks are vital for any decently planned community. These gigantic, sprawling neighborhoods with big yards are not smart or sustainable.

2/4/2009 2:38:40 PM

^ this is true. If Europe shows us anything it's that in time, you will simply run out of space. I actually like the way some of those countries put their infrastructure together so that you live in an apt type setting but have good access to public transport, stores, and such.

2/4/2009 2:43:36 PM

Quote :

"So now your saying its because of choice... because of adoption? so does that mean adopted children aren't as good as children born to their parents? After all the adoptive parents are making the choice to take in someone that isn't directly related. Walking a thin line there."

Quote :

"While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

2/4/2009 2:48:49 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=539594

2/4/2009 2:52:09 PM

Actually skack that would not qualify as straw man since you were only taking part of what i said and not the entire argument, nor were you understanding that point having obviously taken it out of context. otherwise you would have realized that what I was showing you is that saying adoption is a reason, isnt really a good reason. I was also showing you that saying you do it because they(children) are becoming functioning memebers of society wasnt always a fact.

and finally i was explaining to you that you were arguing an invalid point since the idea is not that dogs are = to children, it was that subsidizing one thing over another based on whether it impacts you or not was not a valid point per my list of reasons. It is quite obvious, to exemplify this again, that art is both subsidized and a commodity as it can be bought and sold.

2/4/2009 3:03:04 PM

Here are some more straws you can grasp at.

2/4/2009 4:14:52 PM

Hah putting up straw men of your own now? I see you don't have arguments, only antics.

2/4/2009 4:31:15 PM

Quote :

"You just assumed something about dog parks b/c to you its inconceiveable that dogs could congregate without making noise! "

Is it ridiculous to assume that there will be at least some barking wherever a dog park is put up?

I don't want to live somewhere that I have to hear barking at all, I don't want to live next to any type of public park or business simply because noises from these types of places will wake me from slumber.

Just because I wake easily from sleep (believe me, I would not choose to be this way if I had any say it in it) and don't want to live around these places does not make me stupid.

All these ad hominem attacks point to some sort of personal issue and are not furthering your argument.

2/4/2009 5:19:19 PM

That fearful mother sounds absolutely ridiculous. A dog, even if off leash, is not going to pass up heading to the dog area in favor of mauling a child.

Quote :

"Having dog parks in your area means more well socialized and thoroughly exercised dogs. That means less overall aggressive behavior typically."

This is true for some areas. I don't think it's true for Raleigh. We've been to Millbrook numerous times and there was always at least one dude with an unneutered pit bull on a chain that wanted to rip everyone a new one. He sure wasn't learning to socialize. Aside from that most people's dogs seemed to be running amuck (knocking people over, growling and pissing off other dogs, etc) while the owners ignored their existence. The dog park near our house in Wilmington always has very responsible owners who keep close tabs on their dogs, and make sure they play appropriately.

Quote :

"Dogs are not part of our society. They do not contribute to our society (minus the extremely rare cases where dogs are put to work.) They will not grow up and become functioning members of our society."

Any one of the millions of people who have painstakingly chosen their puppy, trained it, and raised it to serve as a service dog, military dog, police dog, therapy dog, rescue dog, seeing eye dog, handicapped companion dog, etc. would find that statement EXTREMELY insulting. I really just want to slap you for that.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 6:06 PM. Reason : grrr]

2/4/2009 6:02:58 PM

Quote :

"During a meeting before the city's parks board last fall, Quinn Campbell, the mother of two young children, pleaded with board members to remove the dog park from the Strickland Road park plan. She feared that an unleashed dog, running from a car to the park, might hurt someone."

so why not just outlaw dogs? this is so stupid.

the parks I go to are fairly nice except for the occasional shitheads who bring aggressive dogs. but then what does them buying an aggressive dog have to do with the dog park?

2/4/2009 6:07:39 PM

Quote :

"Is it ridiculous to assume that there will be at least some barking wherever a dog park is put up? I don't want to live somewhere that I have to hear barking at all, I don't want to live next to any type of public park or business simply because noises from these types of places will wake me from slumber. Just because I wake easily from sleep (believe me, I would not choose to be this way if I had any say it in it) and don't want to live around these places does not make me stupid."

Your complains, and points, are ridiculous. Basically you're saying you can't get any sleep unless you live in the middle of nowhere. Trucks, rednecks with freeflowing exhaust pickups (and ricers), dump trucks, fire trucks, etc etc all make noise comparable or worse to a dog park. Everyone else in this thread gave up on you so I'm not even sure why I am.

I just wanna say the dog park at Carolina Pines park is fantastic and I've never been to a dog park (2 in Raleigh, 4 in NYC) where people brought aggressive dogs and/or wouldn't remove them if there was a problem.

2/4/2009 8:06:14 PM

Quote :

"Any one of the millions of people who have painstakingly chosen their puppy, trained it, and raised it to serve as a service dog, military dog, police dog, therapy dog, rescue dog, seeing eye dog, handicapped companion dog, etc. would find that statement EXTREMELY insulting. I really just want to slap you for that."

What part of "minus the extremely rare cases where dogs are put to work" didn't you understand? The vast majority of those dogs would never go to a dog park anyway. Oh, and "millions" of them? "Millions?" I highly doubt there are millions of them in the US today.

2/4/2009 9:52:21 PM

Quote :

"Your complains, and points, are ridiculous."

You made an ad hominem attack on my personal preference. In addition to being unneccesary, this is a logical fallacy. Therefore, I think your complaints are the ones that best qualify as "ridiculous"

I was asked to give my preference, and I did, which is to live in the middle of nowhere or at least somewhere very quiet. That's not ridiculous. It's just an opinion.

2/4/2009 11:01:24 PM

Not sure I really get this whole 2 pages of arguing.

If you don't want to hear dogs barking -- don't live next to a house with dogs. The dogs at the dog park RARELY bark, and it's only open from dawn to dusk. It's the homes where people leave their dogs out back that cause all the ruckus.

I'm saddened that the News & Disturber has nothing better to do than interview stuck-up, ignorant bitches who can't get over their own fears of dogs. Dog parks are wonderful places. Carolina Pines is great, and is right next to the people park. If anything, you're going to wake up from psycho screaming kids or tee-ball Saturdays.

Having public funds used to help socialize dogs is great, and for those who don't have dogs, it shows them how nice dogs CAN be -- thereby potentially helping the Wake County Animal Shelter and SPCA adopt out some loving pups.

Public funds are used for all sorts of things, take the disc golf park OFF KAPLAN. What if the homeowners around there decided it was too loud/trashy/dangerous? We'd be up in arms about that.

I just think it's all silly and too much drama. If you don't want to hear barking, go live in an apartment that doesn't allow pets, or your own house with at least a mile btwn other homes..... b/c remember, in the country, sound travels pretty far. BARK.

2/5/2009 1:44:56 AM

Quote :

"If you don't want to hear dogs barking -- don't live next to a house with dogs. "

Yeah, because I should pick up and move whenever my neighbors buy a dog

Having lived next to a dog owner who didn't give two shits about his dogs for years has given me an immense loathing for barking dogs. I imagine some of the people complaining about the dog parks feel the same way. Doesn't mean they're right in assuming that dog park = barking at all hours of the day, but it doesn't make their concerns less worthy either.

In reality the city should just tell them to STFU and do what they originally intended to do. You can't please everyone though I do agree that the service should be paid for just as you have to pay for a city pool.

2/5/2009 2:33:03 AM

There's something really wrong with people who are so in to their pets.

I own two dogs, and i don't get it.

if they both died today, I'd only be upset at all the money i just spent on vet bills and all the time i invested in training them and then get a couple more dogs.

you people are fucking insane.

2/5/2009 7:01:21 AM

I :heart: dog parks

2/5/2009 10:30:57 AM

^^ I'm still trying to figure out when it became normal for dogs to be treated as children. A ton of my friends growing up had dogs, but they were not thought of or treated as children. They were dogs. People loved them and took care of them, but they didn't devote a huge part of their lives or assets to them. Basically, they didn't let the dog run their lives.

2/5/2009 10:51:47 AM

I think there's a difference between letting the dogs run your lives, and giving the dog what it needs. You shouldn't adopt a pet if you can't take care of it. And one of the viable options for providing adequate exercise for a lot of pet owners is a dog park. Just because you want dog parks doesn't mean you're structuring your lives around your pets.

Pets deserve love and attention. If you can't provide that, you shouldn't be a pet owner.

2/5/2009 10:57:07 AM

^^^^so you basically view dogs the same as other material objects that require upkeep, like an automobile. That's some crazy thinking.

Quote :

"I imagine some of the people complaining about the dog parks feel the same way. Doesn't mean they're right in assuming that dog park = barking at all hours of the day, but it doesn't make their concerns less worthy either."

That's all well and good but dog parks aren't louder than a non dog park. So basically you're either for or against parks in general.

2/5/2009 12:13:51 PM

Okay I was at the dog park yesterday (CP) and there was some small little shit down there that would not shut the fuck up.

So it was loud and annoying this time

2/9/2009 1:26:28 PM

Quote :

"There's something really wrong with people who are so in to their pets. I own two dogs, and i don't get it. if they both died today, I'd only be upset at all the money i just spent on vet bills and all the time i invested in training them and then get a couple more dogs. you people are fucking insane."

so why exactly do you have dogs? i mean, if you get no enjoyment out of owning them, which i am inferring from your comment about not caring if they die except for the $ you spend on them, then why have them at all? save your money and get a stuffed animal.

2/9/2009 1:36:47 PM

i beat my dog...she behaves herself at the dog park, now

2/9/2009 1:41:42 PM

Went to the dog park yesterday. It was a good time. The people at the basketball court next to the dog park were louder than anything happening inside the dog park.

2/9/2009 2:10:13 PM

they should make cat parks

2/9/2009 2:25:20 PM

oh man! yoshi would be alllll over that!!!

2/9/2009 3:55:32 PM

hehe look at yoshi all stylin in his neck tie!

2/9/2009 5:03:46 PM

Have not people realized that no matter what you do someone will complain and someone will be unhappy.

At some point our congressman ratified the 11th amedment guarteeing the right to never be insulted/annoyed/inconvienced

2/9/2009 5:06:34 PM

i too went to the dog park this past weekend. both saturday and sunday, in fact. both parties involved had quite a bit of fun.

2/9/2009 6:44:43 PM

Quote :

"So basically you're either for or against parks in general."

Something tells me some of these same people complaining about dog parks would also bitch about playgrounds/basketball courts/etc being built near their house.

2/9/2009 7:16:44 PM

everytime we leave oakwood the pup's stick their heads out the windows and I can hear two neighborhood dogs barking. I hear them barking all the time. Maybe they're confusing those dogs chained outside to the well behaved dogs 300 feet away from their homes. Idk, I'd just be very sad if they took that privilege away, especially since we're paying 'city tax' on these dogs.

imo, dog parks are necessary but should be considered similar to baseball fields and children's playgrounds. Of course some noise is going to come out of these areas, occasionally the fly ball. Don't punish the dogs!

2/9/2009 8:36:41 PM