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3/11/2009 12:38:33 PM

I agree with most of the people here. 'Detox' cleanses are absolutely ridiculous. I have a friend on the lemonade cleanse now for a week, and she's gone absolutely batshit- she's been starving herself and subsisting on sugar-~600 calories- a day. Her actual mental clarity has gone out the window, and I can't trust her opinions right now involving a non-profit board. Her strength also isn't where it normally is- she can't bike at all.

Do your body a favor, and do what you're supposed to do in the first place and long term- everything in moderation. Don't drink too much, eat a wholesome, well-balanced diet, and do moderate cardio and strength training exercise 4-5 x a week. This isn't fucking rocket science! If you are having trouble with proper digestion, I can guarantee whole grains, beans, fruits and veggies will take care of that (I'm vegetarian, believe me, constipation isn't a problem).

And the reason your body 'cleanses' itself on these diets is because you are taking laxatives, not because there's any real cleaning going on. You will also put the weight right back on after you abuse yourself like this.

3/11/2009 12:43:53 PM

I've wondered about these detox products, as there don't appear to be any scientific studies that show that they work. However, if there aren't any such studies, wouldn't that also mean that there aren't any that show that they don't work? Are there such studies? Wouldn't that settle the issue once and for all?

And what is that black shit-rope really made of? Is that for real?

3/11/2009 12:47:26 PM

Quote :

"wouldn't that also mean that there aren't any that show that they don't work? Are there such studies? Wouldn't that settle the issue once and for all?"

there's nothing to study. Science already knows what happens when you take laxatives - you shit your brains out. No need to study that any further. The whole issue of "detox" itself is just a made-up controversy. The human body already has a natural detoxification system - it's called the kidneys and the liver. If your kidneys and liver are working fine, then you do not have a buildup of "toxins" that need to be flushed. If you do get a buildup of toxins somehow, either through a poorly functioning kidney or liver or from over-consumption of anything from alcohol to sugar, then you will know it because you will get sick. If you're not sick, then you don't have anything to worry about.

and no, a study would not settle the issue once any for all. Pushers of crank products and pseudo-science have never, ever let the facts get in the way of what they're trying to sell. Why do you think the anti-vaccination movement is still going strong after dozens of studies in the past decade have proven them wrong. Or why people continue to go to, and offer acupuncture, when double-blinded studies show benefits no greater than placebo (i.e. it's all mental). As long as it is legal to sell these products, and it is (in large part to deregulation of the "alternative medicine" market in the 90's), then people will continue to sell this stuff with virtually no oversight by the FDA or USDA or anybody, except the occasional FTC lawsuit for fraudulent marketing, which is just a "cost of business" for these companies.


the black shit-rope thing is mostly gelatin. You only get that after you take a little brown pill, then a day or so later, all that crap comes out of you and you think "OMG WTF, that pill helped me dispense with all that crap built up inside of me!" But the pill itself is what creates the rope-thing. It's made of some kind of expanding gelatinous powder that just interacts with the water in your digestive system to expand into a gel.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2009 1:37:26 PM

My roommate bought some of this kinda stuff in the store a little while back...we share a bathroom. It was a really tough month and I eventually told him to stop using the shit. If you want to detox or whatever, I would definitely say to go natural (not that I really know anything about it). That stuff from the store is terrible.

3/11/2009 2:11:55 PM

lol... Keep snake oil medicine safe and legal.

Quote :

"the black shit-rope thing is mostly gelatin. You only get that after you take a little brown pill, then a day or so later, all that crap comes out of you and you think "OMG WTF, that pill helped me dispense with all that crap built up inside of me!" But the pill itself is what creates the rope-thing. It's made of some kind of expanding gelatinous powder that just interacts with the water in your digestive system to expand into a gel."

link??
http://www.snopes.com/toxins/fecal.htm only debunks the meat-diet-compacted-shit issue with Elvis and John Wayne -- I want to know what that shit-rope really is. I mean, why isn't a study done, even if "science already knows what happens"? Someone is losing money over this, right? Legitimate doctors, perhaps? Why don't they put out their own infomercial with proofs of various hoaxes?

3/11/2009 3:03:20 PM

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

Quote :

"These pills consist mainly of bentonite, an absorbent, expanding clay similar to kitty litter. Combined with psyllium, used in the production of mucilage polymer, bentonite forms a rubbery cast of your intestines when taken internally, mixed of course with whatever else your body is excreting. Surprise, a giant rubbery snake of toxins in your toilet. It's important to note that the only recorded instances of these "mucoid plaque" snakes in all of medical history come from the toilets of the victims of these cleansing pills. No gastroenterologist has ever encountered one in tens of millions of endoscopies, and no pathologist has ever found one during an autopsy. They do not exist until you take such a pill to form them. The pill creates the very condition that it claims to cure. And the results are so graphic and impressive that no victim would ever think to argue with the claim."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite [emphasis mine]

Quote :

"Sodium bentonite expands when wet, possibly absorbing several times its dry mass in water. Because of its excellent colloidal properties (see Odom ref below) it is often used in drilling mud for oil and gas wells and for geotechnical and environmental investigations. The property of swelling also makes sodium bentonite useful as a sealant, especially for the sealing of subsurface disposal systems for spent nuclear fuel [1] [2] and for quarantining metal pollutants of groundwater. Similar uses include making slurry walls, waterproofing of below-grade walls and forming other impermeable barriers: e.g., to seal off the annulus of a water well, to plug old wells, or as a liner in the base of landfills to prevent migration of leachate."

Quote :

"Much of bentonite's usefulness in the drilling and geotechnical engineering industry comes from its unique rheological properties. Relatively small quantities of bentonite suspended in water form a viscous, shear thinning material. Most often, bentonite suspensions are also thixotropic, although rare cases of rheopectic behavior have also been reported. At high enough concentrations (~60 grams of bentonite per litre of suspension), bentonite suspensions begin to take on the characteristics of a gel (a fluid with a minimum yield strength required to make it move). For these reasons it is a common component of drilling mud used to curtail drilling fluid invasion by its propensity for aiding in the formation of mud cake. Bentonite can be used in cement, adhesives, ceramic bodies, and cat litter. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyllium

Quote :

"Upon absorbing water, the clear, colorless, mucilaginous gel that forms increases in volume by tenfold or more. Psyllium is mainly used as a dietary fiber, which is not absorbed by the small intestine. The purely mechanical action of psyllium mucilage absorbs excess water while stimulating normal bowel elimination. Although its main use has been as a laxative, it is more appropriately termed a true dietary fiber. The United States is the world's largest importer of psyllium husk, with over 60% of total imports going to pharmaceutical firms for use in products such as "Metamucil"."

the funny thing is that a lot of the detox companies don't shy away from admitting that bentonite and psyllium are used in their products. They claim, though, that those ingredients "absorb toxins", when in fact all those ingredients do is what they do naturally - absorb water to expand and form rubbery snakes (bentonite), then make you shit (Psyllium).


you're being a bit too..... logical with they "well, why don't doctors and scientists just make their own informercials". well, yes, technically you're right. But it just doesn't work that way, for many, many reasons.
1) scientists and researchers do do research on medicines, compounds, molecules, etc, and publish their findings in appropriate outlets, like scientific and medical journals. Occasionally the mass media will pick up on some of the studies and reprint them in normal media, but they often don't. The mass media especially doesn't often pick up on negative studies, because they're just not that interesting.

2) The people selling the products are in the business of making money. They make bogus claims (they come as close as possible to the FDA guidelines about making specific medicinal claims without actually making those claims), people buy their stuff, they make money, and they use that money are more marketing and advertising. That's their business. It's not the scientists job to mass-market their findings, and they don't have the same incentive as the people who are actually selling stuff and making profit.

3) Negative studies come out all the time, and they are ignored. Acupuncture, homeopathy, and the vaccine-autism link have been studied and disproved time and time (and time) again. They are either simply ignored by the proponents of the practices, or the proponents "shift the goal posts" (e.g. once one of their claims is debunked, they just move to another claim), or they claim it's a conspiracy, etc etc.

Quote :

"Someone is losing money over this, right?"

yeah, mostly the people who buy the stuff.

Legitimate doctors aren't losing a lot of money, because when people have legitimate problems, then they mostly go to real doctors. A doctor isn't losing money when someone buys a detox kit, because a real doctor does not sell a detox kit or offer that service, because the service is bullshit. Therefore, only the person buying the detox plan is the one losing money. When people use alternative medicine to treat real problems, like cancer, then two things happen: 1) in addition to the alternative treatments, they seek legitimate treatment as well. So doctors are still providing real care to the patients. Again, only the patient is wasting money by supplementing the real care with the crap care. Or 2) the patient forgoes real care, and is ultimately harmed or killed in the end. In that case, it's a tragedy the patient died, but the numbers are still relatively small that real doctor's aren't in such a pinch they need those people's money.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 4:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2009 4:04:43 PM

Shitwater Jello. Huh... interesting.

Quote :

"psyllium .... a true dietary fiber."

Now wait. Dietary fiber is good for you, right?
If the claim is that this "jello shit-rope" removes more fecal matter than your normal bowel movements would typically remove, wouldn't it be conceivable that these shit-rope pills act to clean the intestine like a colonic? In other words, even if it doesn't -- isn't that a "plausible mechanism"? It still seems like actual studies should be done.

Certainly it's a scam to say that the shit-rope is all shit (that was in you to begin with,) and not some shit mixed with shitwater jello, but still.... Might this procedure provide at least some benefit? ...something similar to colon hydrotherapy? If doctors and/or scientists have conclusively shown otherwise, why not speak up?

Quote :

"yeah, mostly the people who buy the stuff."

Quote :

"the patient forgoes real care, and is ultimately harmed or killed"

Then consumer and patient protection groups should do the infomercials, right? I mean, actual scams piss people off... There's certainly a market for conclusive information about myths and such.... Perhaps snopes should get involved as more than just a web site.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 4:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2009 4:36:53 PM

i kinda wanna try the poo pills just for the giggles

3/11/2009 4:46:13 PM

i kinda wanna try the poo pills just for the giggles youtube hits

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2009 4:52:53 PM

^^^ you're giving these people too much credit.

Yes, fiber is good for you. But there are a thousand ways to get fiber without buying expensive pills.

Your bowels don't need any "help" cleaning themselves out. Haven't you seen videos of colonoscopies? It's smooth and pink up in there. Yes, patients take normal laxatives before colonoscopies to clear themselves out, for the sake of cleanliness and and ease of taking the measurement. But no GI doctor would tell you that those are necessary for normal use or that they "remove toxins".

Quote :

"Then consumer and patient protection groups should do the infomercials, right? I mean, actual scams piss people off... There's certainly a market for conclusive information about myths and such...."

money, dude. it's all about money. The people selling this stuff are making tons of money, and the people speaking out against it are not making money for doing so. For the most part, even if people accept this stuff is a scam, most people will just say "whatever, whats the harm".
but, of course..... we know there eventually is harm in most of this nonsense http://whatstheharm.net/
http://whatstheharm.net/coloncleansing.html

you want links and studies? here
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/gastro.html

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2009 4:58:28 PM

Quote :

"Your bowels don't need any "help" cleaning themselves out."

So, are you saying that colonics are scams, too?

3/11/2009 5:07:17 PM

assuming they are performed for basically the same reason these detox plans are, then yes.

I mean, pretty much everything has to be qualified with "for a normally functioning, healthy person.....". Sure, maybe colonics are needed in certain situations. Sure, maybe some people need to use laxatives for certain reasons or specific conditions.

But as a normal part of being "a healthy person" or something like that? please.....
http://www.poopreport.com/Doctor/Knowledgebase/colonictruth.html

Quote :

"I would say that for the most part, colonics are a farce, a waste of time, and a waste of money. The only reason I could see a colonic having some benefit would be in the case of chronic constipation. But in that case, increasing the dietary fiber would be a more effective and healtier option. Also, a fleet enema is easier and much cheaper and just as effective if an enema is necessary to treat constipation. I am not really sure what the rationale behind a colonic is. I am also not sure how popular this sort of practice is. I do know that a lot of money is charged to have this procedure performed. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that colonics have any impact in decreasing the risk of digestive diseases any more than simple fleet enemas and/or an increased fiber diet. In addition, all of the bacteria and fecal debris that a colonic expells will re-appear quite fast. The billions of bacteria in the colon will re-populate and unless you starve yourself, the fecal remains will soon re-accumulate. So please, do not waste your time and money with colonics. The evidenced supporting a benefit of this practice is very limited. The benefit of a high fiber diet is far greater than any benefit of a colonic. _________________ Dr. Adams is a resident in the Department of Internal Medicine at North Shore University Hopsital in Manhasset, NY. Got a question for him?"

http://www.burnthefat.com/colon_cleansing_scam.html

Quote :

"It's tough to address all "cleansing" programs in one short Q & A column because there are so many things that fall into this category and because the various programs, products and claims are often very different. Let me do my best though because I know this is a common question. Just about everything that falls under the umbrella term of "cleansing" is pseudo science or scam, unless you consider increasing your fruit, vegetable and fiber intake from whole foods as "cleansing." A fiber supplement might be useful in some circumstances, but the products you take that cause a mass of gunk to come out of you are a scam and I daresay, a blatant deception. The gunk only comes out of the people who take the product, because the gunk is created by the product! There is also no evidence whatsoever that "cleansing" will increase the effectiveness of a diet that follows the cleanse. Any increase in fat loss during a "cleanse" can be attributed to a huge calorie deficit, and increases in weight loss can be attributed to the normal intestinal contents clearing out, and loss of water, glycogen or lean tissue."

Quote :

"Now, if by "cleansing," someone is referring to simply "cleaning up your diet" by eating more fruits and veggies, of course I'm all for that, or if you mean "cleansing" by increasing your fiber intake, I'm all for that too. If someone really wants to take a fiber supplement like a psyllium based product, etc., that is certainly an option and it may very well help with a constipation issue. El cheapo brands from drug store or supermarket are just fine - no need to "blow" a lot of money (bad pun - a few people will get - intended). Just realize that the optimum solution is high fiber, natural foods, unless your doctor has advised you of some other course of action. We have no scientific evidence that anything "sticks" to your insides and causes disease or body fat gain. We have no evidence that "cleansing" before a diet makes the diet work better afterwards. It's these claims, and use of scare tactics (photos of "pounds" of "gunk" that supposedly was sticking to your insides), more than anything that are way off base and unethical. If you want even more proof that colon cleansing is a scam, ask a gastroenterologist who has done colonoscopies or even surgeries. Seriously, who would know better than someone who looks at the insides of colons on a regular basis? Ask a medical student or medical examiner - why don't autopsies routinely find clogged up intestines and colons in the deceased? (Especially folks who died of diseases supposedly caused by the alleged "clogged up, toxic system.")"

Quote :

"American Journal of Gastroenterology: 100(1) 232-42. 2005, mueller-lissner, et al. "Myths and misconceptions about chronic constipation" "There is no evidence to support the theory that diseases may arise via "autointoxication," whereby poisonous substances from stools within the colon are absorbed." Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology: 1989 Aug;11(4):434-41., Chen TS, et al. "Intestinal autointoxication: a medical leitmotif" "The idea that putrefaction of the stools causes disease, i.e., intestinal autointoxication, originated with physicians in ancient Egypt. By the 1920s, the medical doctrine fell into disrepute as scientific advances failed to give support. However, the idea persists in the public mind." European Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology. 24(4):196-8. 1997 "Colonic irrigation and the theory of autointoxication: a triumph of ignorance over science." "Autointoxication is an ancient theory based on the belief that intestinal waste products can poison the body and are a major contributor to many, if not all, diseases. In the 19th century, it was the ruling doctrine of medicine and led "colonic quackery" in various guises. By the turn of the century, it had received some apparent backing from science. When it became clear that the scientific rationale was wrong and colonic irrigation was not merely useless but potentially dangerous, it was exposed as quackery and subsequently went into a decline. Today we are witnessing a resurgence of colonic irrigation based on little less than the old bogus claims and the impressive power of vested interests. Even today's experts on colonic irrigation can only provide theories and anecdotes in its support. It seems, therefore, that ignorance is celebrating a triumph over science.""

http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2004/12/mucoid-plaque-dubious-idea.html

3/11/2009 5:19:08 PM