Quote :

"nobody gets lung cancer from going to a bar now and then you're a moron if you think you can be exposed to so little cigarette smoke and get lung cancer"

no, the moron is the one who thinks that susceptibility to various carcinogens are the same for everyone

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 2:57 PM. Reason : page 2]

3/24/2009 2:57:12 PM

I really don't understand why this shouldn't be up to the establishments in question.

Why do we need a law to take away a bar owner's right to choose a smoke-free establishment for themselves?

3/24/2009 2:57:29 PM

Quote :

"are you really that fucking stupid or do you just play a dumbass on the internet? you are fucked for life if you get lung cancer. some people don't survive it. quit being a fucking nimrod."

hey guy

I wasn't saying lung cancer doesn't fuck you...we all know its fucks you in the ass

I was saying you can't just get it the first, second or tenth time you'll around people smoking, like you can get AIDS from the first bugchaser you fuck

Its a long process...its not something you just "get"

3/24/2009 2:57:40 PM

Quote :

"The bill's sponsors say they want to protect workers and members of the public from having to breathe unwanted secondhand smoke."

They don't exactly have the option, do they?


Stop playing devil's advocate all the time, it's getting fucking old.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 2:58 PM. Reason : to treetwista]

3/24/2009 2:57:57 PM

Quote :

"no, the moron is the one who thinks that susceptibility to various carcinogens are the same for everyone"

if you get lung cancer strictly from 2nd hand smoke at a bar, your shit genes should be weeded out from the human race

3/24/2009 2:58:29 PM

^ yeah i'd be nice if the people who didn't smoke went to the non smoking bars or just sucked it up.

i don't smoke, but i recognize that people should be able to if the business permits it. if i hate smoke, then i'll go to a non smoking bar. it REALLY is that easy.

Quote :

"So that's your defense? "I may be a douchebag, but more people agree with me, so I win." Well, hope democracy doesn't come back to bite you in the ass someday."

you have to understand that quag doesn't use logic in his arguments. it's sad, but true.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:00 PM. Reason : eh]

3/24/2009 2:58:56 PM

Quote :

"They don't exactly have the option, do they? Stop playing devil's advocate all the time, it's getting fucking old."

As we all know, it's impossible to get a job elsewhere. It's like those career chips in Futurama - once you're there, you're in for life.

3/24/2009 2:59:31 PM

^

it doesn't take a genius to figure that out... oh wait maybe it does considering all the posts in this thread.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM. Reason : eh ]

3/24/2009 3:00:52 PM

1.) This isn't just about the public. It's also about people having the right to a job where they don't have to inhale smoke during their entire shifts.
2.) It doesn't ruin businesses. Every place where these bans have taken effect have turned out fine, albeit with some short terms business drops.
3.) I understand wanting business owners to be able to decide themselves, but that doesn't take employees into account. A safe workplace is a right that everyone should enjoy. I know you "don't have to work there if you don't like the smoke," but the fact is, some people have to take certain jobs. They're stuck with them.
4.) I love being in NY and other places where I can come home and not smell disgusting.
5.) This will pass one day, whether it passes this time or not.
6.) I'd like to see some kind of contingency for a small number of bars being delegated smoke-friendly or something, though I don't know how you'd work out the details.
7.) You guys will deal

3/24/2009 3:01:00 PM

every establishment already has rules and regulations. its part of owning a business. so "this is just the government telling a place how to run their business" is not even worth bringing up. "you can't have this many people in a place. must hold certain cleanliness standards. must have handicap accessibility."

3/24/2009 3:01:21 PM

And it isn't like anyone who works in a bar wasn't expecting it to be full of smokers all the time when they applied.

3/24/2009 3:01:25 PM

Quote :

"but the fact is, some people have to take certain jobs"

maybe if they dont want to be exposed to cigarette smoke, they could take another job, like inside a coal mine

3/24/2009 3:02:06 PM

Quote :

"if you get lung cancer strictly from 2nd hand smoke at a bar, your shit genes should be weeded out from the human race"

i love it when you bring this stuff up...there's a man down at the miami serpentarium that's immune to a number of potentially deadly snake bites

i think YOU should let a king cobra bite you in the fucking eye...if you live, kudos...when you die, we all do a little dance...after all, it's all about the genes, RIGHT?

stop your bitching, okay? if you don't fucking like it, leave the country

3/24/2009 3:02:09 PM

hahaha threads like this remind everyone how big of a pussy faggot quagmire is

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:04 PM. Reason : no offense to gay people]

3/24/2009 3:02:55 PM

Everybody says "Well you can go to a non-smoking bar!!!!!11oneone"

What I want to know is: Where the fuck are all these non-smoking bars? They act like they're all over the place and if they are I certainly have never stumbled into one.

3/24/2009 3:05:06 PM

you can say faggot and not be talking about gay people

its an acceptable generic insult at this point

3/24/2009 3:05:24 PM

i know of about 10 non-smoking bars in charlotte and i'm sure there are plenty more

3/24/2009 3:05:40 PM

Quote :

"This isn't just about the public. It's also about people having the right to a job where they don't have to inhale smoke during their entire shifts."

Which is why it's good thing people aren't forced to work at one job forever, now isn't it?

Quote :

"3.) I understand wanting business owners to be able to decide themselves, but that doesn't take employees into account. A safe workplace is a right that everyone should enjoy. I know you "don't have to work there if you don't like the smoke," but the fact is, some people have to take certain jobs. They're stuck with them."

Because, what, bartending is now a five-year contract kind of operation? I didn't realize it was like joining the Army or something.

Quote :

"4.) I love being in NY and other places where I can come home and not smell disgusting."

Great, and a simple solution exists: Patronize establishments that already forbid smoking. If more people actually did rather than bitch and moan and still go to smoky places, the comparative advantage would be obvious.

But instead, people who push these things want to piss and moan and force the entire world to accommodate their demands rather than to even consider changing their own routine.

Quote :

"5.) This will pass one day, whether it passes this time or not."

And so that makes it right? I don't seem to recall such reserve when things and people you don't like control the agenda.

Quote :

"6.) I'd like to see some kind of contingency for a small number of bars being delegated smoke-friendly or something, though I don't know how you'd work out the details."

Like - gasp -allowing the owners to set the policy in the first place? Or, forbidding that (since we all know owners can't be trusted with that kind of power), through a limited permitting process?

Quote :

"7.) You guys will deal"

So can you. Oh wait, no, you prefer to piss and moan to the government. I forgot.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 3:06:36 PM

Quote :

"you have to understand that quag doesn't use logic in his arguments. it's sad, but true."

haha, you really think that this has ANYTHING to do with logic? there is no LOGIC when it comes to your OPINION on what your natural rights are...your belief in what you should and should not be allowed to do is COMPLETELY and 100% subjective, as it is a result of your personal moral code

you don't get it, do you? you might THINK it's your "right" to smoke wherever you fucking feel like it, but the truth is that there is no universal rule regarding what you can and cannot do (in terms of morality or your "rights" to do so)...if you want to say there is, then it's a matter of religion, which i'm sure you're not trying to bring into this argument...are you?

here is some logic for you - you have NO choice in the matter...if it passes, you can either 1.) get the fuck over it, or 2.) stand up for what you believe is "right" and pay the legal penalty for your actions...if it doesn't pass, then i can do the same

don't like it? move the fuck out of the country...until you do, just continue to bitch on a fairly anonymous intarweb forum and see how far that gets you

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 3:08:16 PM

you're the main one bitching

i've been to bars, and even whole cities that didnt allow smoking...i dealt with it

i didn't get all heated and pissy like you are doing

OMG CIGARETTE SMOKE I MIGHT DIE TONIGHT

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 3:09:41 PM

there's a good chance i'll be able to go to any bar i want not have to breathe cancer or come home smelling like an ashtray

i'm feeling pretty good, actually

3/24/2009 3:10:57 PM

Quote :

"you don't get it, do you? you might THINK it's your "right" to smoke wherever you fucking feel like it, but the truth is that there is no universal rule regarding what you can and cannot do...if you want to say there is, then it's a matter of religion, which i'm sure you're not trying to bring into this argument...are you?"

I, for one, don't even smoke.

I also don't believe in anyone's inherent "right to smoke wherever the hell they want."

I do believe the owner of an establishment has the right to permit smoking or forbid it.

You, on the other hand, feel you have the holy right to walk into whevever the hell you want and demand they accommodate your preferences.

Which of us has the overweening sense of entitlement, again?

Quote :

"here is some logic for you - you have NO choice in the matter...if it passes, you can either 1.) get the fuck over it, or 2.) stand up for what you believe is "right" and pay the legal penalty for your actions don't like it? move the fuck out of the country...until you do, just continue to bitch on a fairly anonymous intarweb forum and see how far that gets you"

And look at that, the law currently permits owners to set their own policies. Well hey, if you don't like it you get giiiiiit out.

Funny how that argument works both ways and yet not at all, doesn't it?

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:12 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 3:11:44 PM

I hope this shit passes. I hate going to a bar and inhaling all that smoke all night.

3/24/2009 3:12:21 PM

actually it's a great point to bring up b/c you think that having certain standards means that another one is just fine. esp. if it something that is completely voluntary. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK THERE.

that's what pro-smoking ban people don't get.

your arguments are completely moot, considering all the people who work there, choose to do so. just like you choose to start smoking and get lung cancer. you know that smoking causes cancer and you do it anyway. tough shit. don't want to breathe in smoke? don't. it's that easy.

don't bullshit anyone by saying that they HAVE to work there. there are other bars in this city that are non smoking. try there. oh wait, they don't earn as much per night. tough, you made your bed, now lie in it.

Quote :

"1.) This isn't just about the public. It's also about people having the right to a job where they don't have to inhale smoke during their entire shifts."

well do pork processing workers have the right not to work in the refrigerated section? do they have the right not to wade around in knee high blood and guts? yes, don't work there.

Quote :

"2.) It doesn't ruin businesses. Every place where these bans have taken effect have turned out fine, albeit with some short terms business drops."

some places can't weather a short term drop in sales. should those businesses get a bailout? or should they be allowed to fail b/c of a short sighted ban?

Quote :

"3.) I understand wanting business owners to be able to decide themselves, but that doesn't take employees into account. A safe workplace is a right that everyone should enjoy. I know you "don't have to work there if you don't like the smoke," but the fact is, some people have to take certain jobs. They're stuck with them."

really george, really? do you want to coddle everyone? of course it takes employees into account. it's called personal responsibility. something severely lacking in a lot of people nowadays. you don't HAVE to take a certain anything. pigeonholing people is silly.

Quote :

"4.) I love being in NY and other places where I can come home and not smell disgusting."

don't patronize those places. personal responsibility.

Quote :

"6.) I'd like to see some kind of contingency for a small number of bars being delegated smoke-friendly or something, though I don't know how you'd work out the details."

what? do you want to pay the non-smoking bars to stay open? share the wealth? do they need a bailout too?

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ']

3/24/2009 3:13:05 PM

i dont really agree with the govt. choosing for buisness owners what they can and cannot do, but as a smoker, i have been to states that do not allow you to smoke in the bar. Most just put up an outdoor canopy for you, which is great for getting to know new people, especially womenz, so i am not against this bill entirely

3/24/2009 3:13:22 PM

Quote :

"there's a good chance i'll be able to go to any bar i want not have to breathe cancer or come home smelling like an ashtray"

good...god forbid evil smokers infringe on your right to get completely wasted

3/24/2009 3:13:50 PM

Yo PM me or list in here a few of the non-smoking Charlotte bars pls.

3/24/2009 3:14:49 PM

^TreeTwista... not everyone goes to the bars to get completely hammered. What about DDs?

3/24/2009 3:14:51 PM

Overall, if it is something that would infringe on other's personal experience on a consistent basis (to the point where a large portion of people would have to feel uncomfortable) then unless that something is actually important (like fucking cars, which you think is a good comparison) to every day life, then I see no problem with it being up for discussion.

3/24/2009 3:17:13 PM

Quote :

"What about DDs?"

wait outside or breathe in the smoke b/c it's a BAR. the soda that you drink is filled with artificial sweeteners or HCFS, that'll kill you too.



[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : ']

3/24/2009 3:17:26 PM

I just don't understand how ban supporters can currently go into a smoking establishment when they obviously think its at such a detriment to thier health and there are non-smoking alternatives...

If I feel that strongly about the ill effects of something, you'd better be damn sure I'm not going to do it.

3/24/2009 3:17:55 PM

personal responsibility.

3/24/2009 3:18:18 PM

Quote :

"Thing is, I am not aware of any bars that voluntarily say NO SMOKING."

Tobacco Road doesn't allow smoking....haha oh the iorny.

3/24/2009 3:20:52 PM

Hickory Tavern in South Charlotte lets you smoke cigs but not cigars

which I find odd and annoying, since whenever I smoke, 90 percent of time its a stogie

3/24/2009 3:22:01 PM

Quote :

"I just don't understand how ban supporters can currently go into a smoking establishment when they obviously think its at such a detriment to thier health and there are non-smoking alternatives... If I feel that strongly about the ill effects of something, you'd better be damn sure I'm not going to do it."

Because it's a matter of personal convenience. The people pushing these bills don't give a rat's ass about "working conditions" or other bullshit they throw out; when it comes right down to it, it's these two simple ideas:

-"I want to be able to go drinking and come out not smelling like smoke"
-"I want to do it at the bars I like to drink at."

If the omnipresent threat of secondhand smoke was so dear to these people, I doubt any one of them would willingly expose themselves to this hazard on a regular basis. They'd go somewhere else. They'd drink at home.

Which tells you where their priorities are, for certain.

3/24/2009 3:23:41 PM

Quote :

"I just don't understand how ban supporters can currently go into a smoking establishment when they obviously think its at such a detriment to thier health and there are non-smoking alternatives..."

That's the most hilarious part. The anti-smoking crowd can't just go to non-smoking bars, they HAVE to go to the same bars as everyone else to the point that they'll enforce legislation to get their way.

Bunch o' pussies.

3/24/2009 3:25:31 PM

Quote :

"Funny how that argument works both ways and yet not at all, doesn't it?"

dude, i AGREE with you...the entire argument is complete and utter bullshit depending on how you want to look at it...you'll never convince me that anarchy is better than the government saying when and where a person can smoke (because, really, by the smoking argument, why are there any laws at all?)...and i'll never convince you that some people just need to get over their addictions for the good of the whole

and yeah, sure, i'm a pinkie (gotta beat twista before he starts with his ass-old insults)

3/24/2009 3:26:34 PM

I wonder how many non smokers have smoked at least one cigarette in their life.

3/24/2009 3:30:42 PM

I welcome this legislation. I would like to destroy my liver without coming out smelling like the Marlboro Man.

^ I seriously have never once smoked a cigarette.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:32 PM. Reason : *]

3/24/2009 3:31:47 PM

Lets just legalize MJ and everyone will be happy.

3/24/2009 3:32:36 PM

^^ amen! at least when you destroy YOUR liver, you leave alone the livers of everyone else in the vicinity

^ pot doesn't smell good, either...but it doesn't smell worse than cigarettes or cigars

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 3:32:47 PM

^^ I wouldn't want to smell that either...

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:33 PM. Reason : *]

3/24/2009 3:33:00 PM

Quote :

"I would like to destroy my liver without coming out smelling like the Marlboro Man."

and again, if you feel that strongly about it, why partronize a smoking establishment anyway?

3/24/2009 3:33:55 PM

^^^Unless you are driving after you do it, and then you kill that nice little old lady driving to church.


Yeah, but if you're sitting in a bar full of pot smoke you won't be complaining either.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:34 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 3:34:14 PM

^^ Because I REALLY want to destroy my liver.

^ Actually, I bet I would.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM. Reason : *]

3/24/2009 3:34:54 PM

Then go to Tobacco Road or the Stinger Lounge...both are non smoking

3/24/2009 3:35:35 PM

I don't know where those are, I'm in Charlotte.

Oh I'll readily admit that my opinion on this matter is entirely self serving. I don't give a shit. If I can have ALL bars be smoke free, then great. I really don't care what reasons were used to make it happen.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:37 PM. Reason : *]

3/24/2009 3:36:26 PM

Quote :

"Thing is, I am not aware of any bars that voluntarily say NO SMOKING."

I can name at least a half dozen in Raleigh, which is why I think this is a fucking stupid bill.

I'm not a smoker.

3/24/2009 3:37:10 PM

well while we are listing, know of any good places for pool that are nonsmoking?

3/24/2009 3:40:01 PM

Interesting debate here...

However, I'm all for this bill.


Oh and SET 'EM UP

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:46 PM. Reason : set em up]

3/24/2009 3:40:37 PM