i'd hit it. hard

4/1/2009 8:17:28 AM

SandSanta and others would rather make fun of me and joke around because I posted a thread about two dead cats. That's fine, I suppose you are entitled to your opinion.

While these are "just" two cats, as someone who has cats, I can't imagine leaving them for a month with no food or water. While they aren't my kids and aren't human, they are still my responsibility. My fiancee and I grabbed them from a shelter where they were starving and malnourished, brought them home, and gave them a better life.


If you take in an animal, they are now your responsibility, just as if you had a kid. What bothers me the most is the blatant lack of personal responsibility from people these days, and this is just one small example. Animals out in the wild are responsible for their own lives, but animals that are kept in someone's house and are fed and sheltered by humans -- they are now the responsibility of the humans, especially if the animals can't get outside to catch their own food.


All of the aforementioned horrors of the past (Holocaust, 9/11, etc etc) were terrible, but this wasn't exactly meant to be compared to those although some of you apparently thought so. I think this is still a tragedy in its own small way.

4/1/2009 9:40:44 AM

speaking of killing cats.

i opened up my window last night and forgot to put the screen down and my fuckin cat was sittin on the ledge. 4th floor.

jesus. cats.

4/1/2009 11:01:31 AM

I don't think anybody is arguing that what she did isn't criminal but the way you posed the thread is as if this event finally shattered your faith in humanity and thats just plain absurd.

4/1/2009 12:01:20 PM

HYPERBOLE IS NOT PERMITTED IN SOAP BOX

EVER

It is literally the worst thing in the entire universe.

4/1/2009 12:15:02 PM

Quote :

"They're just fucking cats. Don't ruin this woman's life because she forgot to feed her cats. "

4/1/2009 1:20:20 PM

SandSanta has always been a buzzkill, and always will be. He's a poor-man's devil's advocate with no original ideas of his own. Regardless of this fact, he's still got a point. It's just two cats.

4/1/2009 1:20:29 PM

Point me to an 'original idea' posted in soap box in the last year.

4/1/2009 3:21:31 PM

Quote :

"speaking of killing cats. i opened up my window last night and forgot to put the screen down and my fuckin cat was sittin on the ledge. 4th floor. jesus. cats."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEJ-LFPcH0

4/1/2009 3:56:53 PM

Seriously, 10 years in prison for neglecting some cats. I don't know sounds kinda steep. What do people who leave their babies left in the car with the window rolled up in the summer get?

Regardless how much of a shit head this lady is.

Human Life >>> Animal Life

4/1/2009 9:49:29 PM

Quote :

" i opened up my window last night and forgot to put the screen down and my fuckin cat was sittin on the ledge. 4th floor. jesus. cats."

aha, one of the cats I have now used to belong to a friend. He would keep her on his balcony when he was at work. The balcony was on the 6th floor and one day she decided to jump off. It was soon after that we volunteered to keep the cat for him

^ They usually get felony charges too.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 9:54 PM. Reason : babies in cars]

4/1/2009 9:54:12 PM

Quote :

"What do people who leave their babies left in the car with the window rolled up in the summer get? "

If it's too low, it should be higher. There's no point in comparing the two. If everything else stayed the same and the penalty for 1st degree murder were changed to a $50 fine, would your complaint be that child molesters should get a $25 fine?

4/1/2009 9:57:53 PM

^ if its not worth comparing those two unrelated things, why did you then decide to compare two other unrelated things?

4/1/2009 10:25:16 PM

Quote :

"Human Life >>> Animal Life"

Perhaps to you, but don't presume to think that everyone else feels the same way.

4/1/2009 10:43:35 PM

so youre saying you'd lay down your life right now to save an animal?

4/1/2009 10:44:44 PM

Am I saying that? Perhaps you should be asking whether or not I would lay down my own life for another human being.

4/1/2009 10:54:21 PM

Quote :

"if its not worth comparing those two unrelated things, why did you then decide to compare two other unrelated things?"

To demonstrate the central, crucial flaw of your post.

4/1/2009 10:54:35 PM

Society and the legal system are concerned by the abuse and neglect of animals because it's just one step away from treating humans in the same way. There is a very strong link. Many people who go on to perpetrate crimes against people begin with animals.

4/1/2009 11:32:13 PM

Quote :

"Perhaps to you, but don't presume to think that everyone else feels the same way."

Explain this further. Are you saying that you think Animal Life is just as important than Human Life?

If so, comment on the hypothetical situation. You have a baby and a puppy on a train track. The train is coming and you can only save one. Now if you think animals are just as important as humans then you should have no problems saving the puppy and letting the baby be squashed or visa-versa.

4/1/2009 11:48:22 PM

It's pretty obvious that he never said any such thing. He merely said that not everybody agrees that people > animals.

4/1/2009 11:51:04 PM

^^^ people want to think that things are connected like that but they usually arent. it's like with drugs. most people who smoke weed don't do other drugs, contrary to popular belief that its a gateway drug.

4/2/2009 12:04:53 AM

Quote :

"Society and the legal system are concerned by the abuse and neglect of animals because it's just one step away from treating humans in the same way. There is a very strong link. Many people who go on to perpetrate crimes against people begin with animals."

(citation needed)

I know someone whose employment consists of removing the heads of the animals that get through the automated execution machine alive, but was so disturbed by the movie Saw that they had to walk out.

There does seem to be a strong distinction made in people's minds between animal and human. I was told the story of someone that worked maintenance on the animal disassembly line but when a coworker had an accident with a knife and cut themself pretty bad, the sight of a human bleeding profusely was enough to make them faint.

4/2/2009 12:16:49 AM

I think it's pretty well established that the "gateway drug" theory was simply propaganda whereas several studies have shown a correlation between extensive animal abuse and abuse of people later down the line.

Do I think this case is an example of that? No.

^ What you are describing is different from the sort of abuse we're talking about. (Obviously, since butchering animals for meat/research is perfectly legal)

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : oops]

4/2/2009 12:18:30 AM

Quote :

"It's pretty obvious that he never said any such thing. He merely said that not everybody agrees that people > animals."

Umm yes, I know this. Read my post. I asked if he himself believed that Animal Life was equivalent to Human Life and if so answer a hypothetical question. I never accused him.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : -]

4/2/2009 12:19:22 AM

You obviously have some sort of social commentary lined up pending my selection so why not just save yourself the trouble and get to it. Your hypothetical is highly subjective. Is it my puppy? Is it my baby? Is it the puppy/baby of someone whom I am familiar with. I fail to see what your point is.

4/2/2009 2:27:41 AM

Also, wouldn't a puppy be able to jump off the tracks

4/2/2009 3:17:13 AM

Actually, I would put and in a cage match. The victor is obviously the one worth saving. Their weapons....cuteness!



The winner would face off against

4/2/2009 3:47:02 AM

I would blow up the empty train with a laser-guided bomb and pick up chicks with my new puppy and baby.

4/2/2009 8:51:23 AM

Quote :

"You obviously have some sort of social commentary lined up pending my selection so why not just save yourself the trouble and get to it. Your hypothetical is highly subjective. Is it my puppy? Is it my baby? Is it the puppy/baby of someone whom I am familiar with. I fail to see what your point is."

You dodge topics like a politician. If you don't want to share your opinion then you don't have too.

My point is that I think most people agree with me... Human lives are worth more than Animal lives. I think that even you would agree to this.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason : -]

4/2/2009 9:55:03 PM

For fuck sakes is this truely a partisan issue

Republicans= They are just animals i buy at the store; so not human! this woman should just owe for teh damages

Liberals= boo hoo this woman is evil and should be locked away for 40 years

Just seems like the people in this thread that bash obama in others are against this womans punishment and those that rant about global warming support throwing this woman behind bars.

-Obviously this woman should lose her job teaching. If she's not responsible enough to visit her house one a fucking month to feed ehr cats than how is she responsible enough to make sure lil johnny is not out getting run over by a school bus.

-She should pay all property damages and some punitive.

- This is pretty gross negligence and animal abuse. I would say 6 months to a year in minimal security prison.

that Davidson kid got 12 months for killing a Canadian goose

4/2/2009 11:38:18 PM

Quote :

"Human lives are worth more than Animal lives. I think that even you would agree to this."

Except that humans are animals. It would be foolish of you to assume anything about me. If you want an answer then ask a specific question and not just some vague, subjective hypothetical.

4/3/2009 12:18:48 AM

^^I'm a Republican. I think this woman is...well, if she isn't evil, then at least a horrible cunt that should do at least a year in prison.

Some crimes are really hard to prevent. They're either crimes of passion or desperation.* Animal cruelty isn't either. By definition you can't leave your cats locked up for weeks in a moment of passion, and there are much easier options to eliminate the cost of keeping cats than starving them to death. It's called an animal shelter. You can't get arrested for taking an animal there.

The good news is that it's often easier to prevent crimes that don't come about as a result of these things by jacking up the penalty a little more. If the punishment for speeding were death by firing squad, a lot fucking fewer people would speed. Of course, there has to be something of a balance there. But if the penalty for animal cruelty is increased (in this case, even to a place within the bounds of the law), and that result is publicized, I think you'd see a decline in animal abuse cases. Given a choice between feeding your damn animal, taking it to a shelter, and going to prison for a couple of years, I think most people will choose one of the first two.

*- There's always the chance this woman is severely mentally ill. As with any crime where mental illness is responsible, I suggest court-ordered psychiatric treatment until such time as the perpetrator is deemed fit to fully re-enter society.

4/3/2009 1:34:55 AM

I'm a Democrat and I think that felony charges for 2 cat deaths is very ridiculous. Basically, your previous statement saying that this a partisan issue is clearly not the case. I also agree that this woman should be punished, but felony charges are absurd.

4/3/2009 7:18:46 AM

^ thats cool; i just wanted to verify. I am somewhat relieved at my commenting being refuted by ^ and ^^.

Hell she could even have just set them loose outside.

4/3/2009 7:21:41 AM

I sprayed thousands of ants with raid. Is that animal cruelty?

I kill rats with mouse traps. It is possible that the rat did not die instantaneously. Maybe it squirmed and withered for hours before finally dieing. Is that animal cruelty?

I ran over a possum with my car and didn't stop to go put it out of its misery. It possibly laid on the side of the road for hours or days suffering. Is that animal cruelty? Should I be charged with a felony?

What if I had of hit a cat instead of a possum. Does that make it a worse crime?

Deer hunters who run dogs intentionally starve their dogs for hunting season. The dogs don't die but are starved none the less. Is that animal cruelty? Is this less of a crime than what this woman has committed?

What if the woman was just absent minded? Out of sight, out of mind. What if she is just ignorant and didn't think of the consequences, or perhaps she thought that the cats could drink out of the toilet indefinitely? (I know, but this is how stupid people think)

/rhetorical questions

4/4/2009 12:24:40 AM

Human society tends to draw distinctions between essentially brainless animals and those of a higher order. Perhaps you disagree with the distinction. You should provide an argument.

The extermination of pests which are uninvited and which present a demonstrable potential for health problems is one thing. The infliction of starvation upon animals which one invited into one's home for the purpose of caregiving is another.

The purely accidental and unexpected harm of a creature is different from the anticipated and expected infliction of harm on a creature. If the woman did not understand that leaving animals in an enclosed space for weeks at a time without food or water would kill them, she is mentally ill and should be treated as such.

The intentional starvation of animals for any reason constitutes animal cruelty. It may -- may -- be acceptable, from time to time, to restrict their feeding in an effort to promote certain behaviors, though I won't claim to know enough about the practice to speak one way or the other on it. But actual starvation is animal cruelty.

You don't own animals and then "absent mindedly" forget to care for them for weeks on end without being mentally ill. If she is mentally ill to such an extreme, she should be treated as such.

You don't get to ask a bunch of pointed questions and then try to wave them off as "rhetorical."

You're a pretty terrible poster. Not exceptionally so; many have come before you who were far worse. But you're still fucking terrible enough that I'd like to see you gone. Fortunately, subsentient mongoloids like yourself tend to flee the forum fairly quickly in the face of any opposition.

4/4/2009 3:50:44 AM

Quote :

"I'm a Democrat and I think that felony charges for 2 cat deaths is very ridiculous. Basically, your previous statement saying that this a partisan issue is clearly not the case. I also agree that this woman should be punished, but felony charges are absurd."

I'm a Libertarian and I think that felony charges for 2 cat deaths is absolutely appropriate. Basically, HUR's previous statement saying that this a partisan issue is clearly not the case. I also agree that this woman should be punished, and felony charges are appropriate.

[Edited on April 4, 2009 at 8:11 AM. Reason : ]

4/4/2009 8:10:54 AM

I would like to dredge up old wounds by pointing out that you, sir, are no libertarian.

I also found this relevant from 2005:
"Vera Ryan knew her son Martin as a charming, strong and energetic man, who never had a chance to start a family or develop a career owing to severe learning difficulties. He had Down's syndrome and epilepsy. It took him a while to get to know people because he could not communicate verbally and his behaviour was unusual.

But that lifelong condition should not have caused his death at the age of 43.

In November 2005 he suffered a stroke at a residential home where he had been living happily with carers in Richmond, south-west London. He was transferred to a general ward at Kingston hospital.

Doctors and nurses should have been immediately concerned about nutrition for a patient who could not swallow as a result of the stroke. He could not talk, but speech therapists and community nurses tried to intervene on his behalf.

The ombudsmen said: "They could not make themselves heard and nothing happened to help Mr Ryan. Nobody took any action to feed him."

After he had lain starving in a hospital bed for 18 days, the medical team realised that he needed to have a feeding tube fitted. But by then he was too ill to undergo the procedure. He died eight days later.

The death certificate gave the reasons as pneumonia and stroke, but the ombudsmen observed: "He was not fed for 26 days and it is an indisputable fact ... that without sufficient food people weaken and die."

4/4/2009 9:46:18 AM

Quote :

"I would like to dredge up old wounds by pointing out that you, sir, are no libertarian. "

You can go fuck yourself, you anthropocentric hyper-capitalist douchebag. Until I was forced to register unaffiliated, I was a registered libertarian from age 18. I have voted for every libertarian candidate that appeared on every ballot I've cast since I was 18. I was a founding member of two school libertarian groups. I was invited and attended the libertarian election night party in 2000. I was asked by the NC libertarian party twice (2000 and 2004) to be a fucking libertarian delegate to the national libertarian convention. I have met Barbara Howe, Mike Munger, and many other NC libertarians on many occasions. Back when they met at amedeos, I met with the libertarians on thursdays most of the time. I have read much more about libertarianism than most others who identify as such. You are a fucking fool. Lonesnark, you are a fucking fool. Seriously, go fuck yourself.

Quote :

"I also found this relevant from 2005:"

Relevant how? Starvation kills, duh.
What's your point?....that those doctors and nurses should've faced charges?

4/4/2009 10:11:04 AM

^x4 dude, get over yourself.

I just asked a few questions to stimulate thought. And you gave very good answers that I hadn't thought of. Actually I mostly agree with your response except for this quote.

Quote :

"You're a pretty terrible poster. Not exceptionally so; many have come before you who were far worse. But you're still fucking terrible enough that I'd like to see you gone. Fortunately, subsentient mongoloids like yourself tend to flee the forum fairly quickly in the face of any opposition."

My posts do contribute to the discussion. I only post when I have something worthwhile to add. I try to avoid calling people names and personally attacking them. I don't use all caps to yell at people. I keep an open mind and try to be sensible even when I totally disagree with someone else. I think if others adopted these rules, even you, the quality of TSB would improve.


[Edited on April 4, 2009 at 10:43 AM. Reason : -]

4/4/2009 10:39:50 AM

Quote :

"I try to avoid calling people names and personally attacking them. I don't use all caps to yell at people."

...Ooops -- I do this.
(I'll try to cut back....)

4/4/2009 10:51:28 AM

Quote :

"Relevant how? Starvation kills, duh. What's your point?....that those doctors and nurses should've faced charges?"

Yes. Yes that is my argument. Best I can figure, they were not even fired. Nevertheless, this women in florida is under arrest and being charged with a felony.

4/4/2009 11:24:33 AM

Quote :

"What if the woman was just absent minded? Out of sight, out of mind. What if she is just ignorant and didn't think of the consequences, or perhaps she thought that the cats could drink out of the toilet indefinitely? (I know, but this is how stupid people think)"

you gotta draw the line somewhere. otherwise whats to stop people from buying cats just so they can light them on fire or have a live shooting target. perhaps than dog fighting is "ok" since they are just property and the big evil gov't should not be able to tell me what to do with my property. People deciding to conduct their own animal "experiments".

4/4/2009 11:51:16 AM

Quote :

"Yes. Yes that is my argument. Best I can figure, they were not even fired. Nevertheless, this women in florida is under arrest and being charged with a felony."

Seriously? No... seriously? Are you suggesting that just because some people somehow escape punishment (or even being arrested,) for their crimes, that others that commit crimes should also escape punishment and arrest? What? That's what it sounds like you're saying....

4/4/2009 12:03:34 PM

Odd, given that the statement I stated I agreed to was "that those doctors and nurses should've faced charges"

But you enjoy arguing and calling people names, so you choose to misinterpret.

4/4/2009 12:18:25 PM

What's odd?
I agree that those doctors and/or nurses should've faced charges. But the fact that they didn't doesn't excuse others from committing crimes... Duh.

Are you saying...

Quote :

"that just because some people somehow escape punishment (or even being arrested,) for their crimes, that others that commit crimes should also escape punishment and arrest"

?

4/4/2009 12:23:44 PM

A libertarian that wants to send a woman to prison because she neglected her cats.

I guess your apathy extends only to poor people.

4/4/2009 10:07:21 PM

Quote :

"VBest I can figure, they were not even fired. Nevertheless, this women in florida is under arrest and being charged with a felony."

The doctors got lucky from the sounds of it. Not really sure what it has to do with this case.

4/4/2009 10:14:30 PM

Quote :

"A libertarian that wants to send a woman to prison because she neglected her cats. I guess your apathy extends only to poor people. "

damn right poor people choose to fat and lazy, drop out of high school, have 10 babies on a 15k salary, or to be content with their job as a burger flipper

The cat did not have a chance nor made a choice to be adopted by a neglectful whore who did not think that the cat may need water or food more than once a month. Even had she neglected the cats if they were outdoors at least they could run off and find food as a feral cat.

4/5/2009 12:17:27 AM

i hate that our legal system is filled with shit like this

4/5/2009 12:29:09 AM