page two of pilot questions

5/4/2009 11:55:36 PM

This thread really took off

5/5/2009 12:01:05 AM

youre really wingin it there

5/5/2009 12:05:24 AM

My good buddy works on the avionics systems (Autopilot) on the new 787, and consequently 747/777 as well. Are you planning on working up to the jumbo's or are you looking to go into non-commercial stuff (cargo planes, etc)?

5/5/2009 12:20:07 AM

Sweet puns.

^
Yeah I'd love to fly any of the three aircraft you just named, eventually. Ultimately the goal isn't really aircraft for me but rather sector: Legacy Airline, Corporate, or Major Cargo Carrier. All three of those generally pay well with seniority. Generally the larger the aircraft you fly, the more you make, with the exception of corporate aviation. I won't rule any of those out because you never can tell what the industry will look like by the time I'm qualified for those jobs. This career is a giant rat race and you have to get lucky to make the big bucks.


Alright. I'm hitting the sack. Keep firing away questions if you want. I'll check back tomorrow night.

[Edited on May 5, 2009 at 12:30 AM. Reason : .]

5/5/2009 12:28:29 AM

^ You aren't alone. Both the friend at Boeing, and another friend are going to be full-time pilots. I can't believe anyone could do it (the engineer guy is going to be taking like a 70% pay cut), but I guess love is love

What did you start out on? Do you rotate captain/co responsibilities, or do you have to move up in the ranks still to even be a captain?

5/5/2009 12:31:11 AM

The cockpit looks really complicated. What do all the switches and shit do? Surely it can't be that complicated.

This question is for you too, Darius.

5/5/2009 12:32:33 AM

seeing someone make 160-180k for doing something that seems more fun than sitting in an office would ordinarily make me think they are overpaid, but airline pilots are one of those occupations where i do not think their pay is nearly enough for the responsibilities they take on, much like a public school teacher.

Question: About how many flights (hours) does a normal major airline full time captain work per week?

5/5/2009 12:55:01 AM

lol this is the most complicated cockpit I've ever had to deal with. Logan, when are you gonna be back? I'll take you and Caroline up for a spin when you get back into town and show you the basics of flying.

[Edited on May 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]

5/5/2009 3:22:09 PM

In what year did the first fully-automated trans-Atlantic flight take place? (everybody else can guess too!)

If you look backwards, can you actually see the Trefftz Plane?

What are the two types of pilots who have flown a tail-dragger?

5/5/2009 4:29:57 PM

what kind of friendly (flight-based) competitions do you get into with your fellow pilots? Runway drag-racing (against the clock, obviously), transit time racing, etc?

if there are federal agents on board, will you know who they are or are you even notified that they're riding? Do they fly alone? What % of flights would have one on board?

How often are you home? Are you continuously flying throughout the week to make 40 hours or something? Sounds like it'd be awful for love/family life

Ever seen a UFO? Not necessarily alien craft, but anything that wasn't supposed to be in the air where you were?

Do you get parachutes?

5/5/2009 5:40:02 PM

Where can I get a job?

5/5/2009 5:54:23 PM

Quote :

"The cockpit looks really complicated. What do all the switches and shit do? Surely it can't be that complicated."

Not to someone who knows what each button/switch does. But I'd like to see the layman go in there and try to start the thing up with out ending up in the terminal building.

The aircraft has a bunch of different systems, thus a bunch of buttons/switches for each system. You've got hydraulic, pneumatic, and electrical systems for various components on top of a dozen computers.

Quote :

"About how many flights (hours) does a normal major airline full time captain work per week?"

FIrst of all, I make no where near 160-180k. I make less than you. And I don't even know what your job is. So think about that for a second hahaha.

Instead of giving you a cheap answer, like "it depends", I'll just say that the usual line length is around 80 hours per month. Now that's 80 hours of being in the cockpit with the doors closed. Obviously that doesn't include the time spent in the airport waiting around. Pilots get paid from the time that door closes to the time to door opens.

Quote :

"In what year did the first fully-automated trans-Atlantic flight take place? (everybody else can guess too!) If you look backwards, can you actually see the Trefftz Plane? What are the two types of pilots who have flown a tail-dragger?"

Not sure about the first. I'm sure I could look it up, but you obviously know the answer.

Dude, I will honestly say for the rest of it that I have no idea what you're talking about hahaha.

EDIT: Just looked up the Trefftz Plane. Trying to wrap my head around how you calculate induced drag from downwash already created as a result of said drag on a semi-infinite vortex line. Or am I completely missing the point? haha. I'll leave the math up to you. Push the stick forward houses get bigger, pull it backwards houses get smaller.

Quote :

" what kind of friendly (flight-based) competitions do you get into with your fellow pilots? Runway drag-racing (against the clock, obviously), transit time racing, etc? if there are federal agents on board, will you know who they are or are you even notified that they're riding? Do they fly alone? What % of flights would have one on board? How often are you home? Are you continuously flying throughout the week to make 40 hours or something? Sounds like it'd be awful for love/family life Ever seen a UFO? Not necessarily alien craft, but anything that wasn't supposed to be in the air where you were? Do you get parachutes? "

When I was flight instructing, the other flight instructors and I would often see who could get to certain places the fastest, who could be off the ground the fastest. Everyone was always talking shit about how they had the best landings, so landing contests were pretty common. I don't know how you figured out who actually won though hahah. Once we were gonna race a Piper Seminole and a Mustang GT on the parallel taxiway, but we didn't end up doing it. I thought that would have been interesting to see.

Once again, it's security sensitive and I'm not supposed to mention anything about the process. Sorry.

Right now I'm on what they call reserve (they call when they need me) and have a guarantee of 11 days off per month. The guys with high seniority sometimes can have around 16 days off per month, this does not include vacation or sick time.

I've seen a lot of weird stuff in the sky. Usually just blips and flashes, and then they're gone. And I'm not talking about "shooting stars" which I have seen a fair share of.

Nope, no parachutes. They'd rather see us try to save the multi-million dollar aircraft.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 11:56 AM. Reason : edit]

5/6/2009 11:41:15 AM

Quote :

"Not sure about the first. I'm sure I could look it up, but you obviously know the answer. Dude, I will honestly say for the rest of it that I have no idea what you're talking about hahaha."

ha
I don't remember the date, but it's extremely impressive. Something like 1945. One of our professors asked us in class one day, and we all guessed late 70's, early 80's. And then he boom smacked us down with the real date. It's just a very interesting piece of trivia.
(I'm having trouble verifying the date, but I'm pretty sure I'm close to right.)

The second one about the Trefftz Plane is a bit of aerodynamicist humor. I didn't figure pilots would have any reason to know about it, but I dunno what they teach you at flight school. The Trefftz Plane is a theoretical plane, perpendicular to the flight path, that exists infinitely far behind the plane. Measuring the amount of circulation inside that plane is a measure of how much lift is created by the wings. The vortexes shed from the wings create some nice circulation behind the plane, and this can be measured (in theory and computation methods) in the Trefftz Plane. It's kind of the same thing as taking a pressure profile behind the aircraft to see the changes effected by the motion of the aircraft. So it's just a bit of nerd humor to say that if you squint really hard, you can see the Trefftz Plane behind the aircraft.

The tail-dragger thing was "There are two types of pilots who fly tail-draggers: those who have spun out on the runway, and those who haven't ... yet." I'm not a pilot, so I don't know all the details, but I think the tail wheel kind of whips out and spins the plane if you're not perfect with the rudder during take-off.

5/6/2009 11:54:43 AM

^ Yeah I just put in an edit in my post after reading some mathematical mumbo jumbo. I deduced from the phrase "semi-infinite vortex line" that I probably won't be able to see any Treffetz plane hahaha. Never heard of it before, pretty neat stuff.

Yeah, I had a student who flew a Cub for a while. The tailwheel is definitely a different animal according to him. I need to get that endorsement sometime.

5/6/2009 12:03:26 PM

where is your base hub at....

a friend of mine lived in winston-salem, yet he had to fly to houston just to go to work....but he would be gone around 2 weeks, then be back for two weeks...now he lives in Dubai and makes about 3 or 4 times his salary in the states

5/6/2009 12:28:28 PM

^Detroit. Yeah Emirates pays well.

Speaking of which I was thinking. I just had the realization that I saw Matt Stafford last week. I wasn't sure it was him at the time, because he was waiting by the baggage claim looking lost. I didn't even put two and two together (I always forget I'm in Detroit). Damn. I'm pretty sure that was him.

5/6/2009 12:36:51 PM

I've got a pilot friend that flies for Southwest. He says he hits the autopilot and does crosswords for most of his flights...

5/6/2009 12:50:35 PM

How old are you?

What kind of schedule do you have (work time vs off time)? Is this flexible - do you get to choose your flights, etc? How do flights get chosen (based on seniority, first come, first serve, etc?)

Do you have a distorted sense of time and space...being in different places/time zones all the time?

What do you do in your off time?

5/6/2009 3:39:12 PM

Do you keep an E6B in the cockpit... just in case?

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM. Reason : -]

5/6/2009 4:35:08 PM

lol... if so much shit has gone wrong that an e6b would help then i think they are fucked any way

5/6/2009 4:44:34 PM

Shouldn't you be using your E6B BEFORE you take off?

5/6/2009 4:51:37 PM

^not necessarily. Winds aloft might be different from what you expected or something. After calculating a true ground track you would probably want to recalculate times/fuel consumption/etc.

5/6/2009 5:05:16 PM

My SO has never flown before and I'm worried than when I put him on one it is going to crash because of Alanis Morisette, am I correct in my assumptions?

5/6/2009 5:29:14 PM

Quote :

"I've got a pilot friend that flies for Southwest. He says he hits the autopilot and does crosswords for most of his flights..."

In cruise there's not much to do.

Quote :

"How old are you? What kind of schedule do you have (work time vs off time)? Is this flexible - do you get to choose your flights, etc? How do flights get chosen (based on seniority, first come, first serve, etc?) Do you have a distorted sense of time and space...being in different places/time zones all the time? What do you do in your off time?"

24 this weekend.

I get 11 guaranteed days off per month. However, since I'm currently on reserve, I have no set schedule. Last month I didn't get called out once, so I did not work at all the month of April and still got paid. Yet I had to be in Detroit at my crashpad for the days I was on reserve. Pilots bid for schedules. At some airlines you bid on a pre-set schedule and at others you bid your preference (certain days off, certain types of trips, etc) and it is built by a computer. You're awarded your line based on seniority.

Yes, especially on reserve. I never know what day it is. When traveling I'm always trying to convert between zulu time and different time zones and trying to remember if it's daylight savings hahahaha.

I enjoy long walks on the beach and ... haha...I do what normal people do. Guitar, snowboard, sleep. I live in Raleigh, so I commute to work in Detroit. I'm trying to go to Europe soon, maybe in July if I can rig my schedule to allow for enough consecutive days off.

Quote :

"Do you keep an E6B in the cockpit... just in case?"

Hahaha if you gave me a whiz wheel now I'd need to take a few minutes to become reacquainted.

Everything you could possibly do with an E6B and more is automated by our FMS. We are lazy pilots.

Quote :

"My SO has never flown before and I'm worried than when I put him on one it is going to crash because of Alanis Morisette, am I correct in my assumptions? "

No, if only because Alanis Morissette is an idiot. Most of the things in her stupid song are unfortunate, not ironic. There's nothing ironic about a black fly in your chardonnay.

5/7/2009 1:44:30 AM

they are saying that the captain that crashed in buffalo earlier this year had failed some certification tests but he retrained and passed. the media is trying to play this up as possible poor risk management on the airline's part, implying that regional carriers are not as safe as the large airlines. is there any merit to this criticism or is it just typical media hype? It seems to me that if he retrained and passed per FAA requirements, there's really no reason to go after the regional commuter airlines.

5/11/2009 9:36:59 PM

Very insightful question.

I downloaded the NTSB's animated reconstruction of the event and watched it a few times. The plane ultimately crashed because the pilot flying did not properly initiate the stall recovery procedure, while the pilot not flying may have aggravated the condition by doing something that was also not part of the procedure. I could expand on what happened, but that's not really your question, so I'll leave it with what I just said.

The regional airlines are a stepping stone for the major/legacy airlines, and as such, the overall experience level in the flight deck is going to be less in a regional aircraft than that of its counterpart. That's to be expected. However, your question ponders if the regional airlines are as safe as their major/legacy counterparts.

For the most part, all airlines' training programs stress safety first and foremost. Simulator training stresses emergency situations, such as the one encountered by the Colgan flight in Buffalo. In fact, their situation was one they undoubtedly were tested on in the sim, and undoubtedly, at some point, proved to be satisfactory on. In the end they are held to the same standards as the airline pilots at the major airlines. Now this does not rule out the possibility that the airline in question did not properly evaluate their employee's history and come to a decision on whether he was a risk due to a pattern of poor decision making. Failing an FAA checkride is not an indicator of one's abilities as a pilot. However, why someone failed a checkride, or in this captain's particular case multiple checkrides, could tell you a lot more. The airlines are tasked with trying to evaluate one's decision making, which is not always cut and dry.

Now, the media. It's the media, dude. The media. They have and will sensationalize and speculate on every major tragedy that ever has/will happen. If you were a pilot watching CNN/Fox News/whoever after the whole Sully ditching, you would have been laughing your ass off at their gross interpretation and commentary on the event, like I was. If you want to obtain proper insight and analysis from the event, the NTSB's report will help you draw your own conclusions.

I basically agree there's no reason to go after the regionals over this one event. However, the state of the regional airlines is pretty piss poor and it does seem like not enough people know about it. I'm all down for someone giving them shit over our pay scale. However, I don't think it has to do with the training.

I think the more interesting thing here is why the crew reacted like they did. They were in an impending stall and almost did the opposite of what they were trained to since they were flying around Cessnas as student pilots. Maybe external factors like stress and fatigue played a role. I could explain what happened and that's a whole 'nother bunch of [words], but I feel like eating something.


Hope I added something to your perspective.

5/18/2009 12:18:58 PM

i am interested in your take on what incorrect actions the pilot and first officer took

if you feel like getting into that later

5/18/2009 12:22:29 PM

^There is an aviation thread in the lounge where someone posted a simulation of what happened on that flight. Right around where the stall occurs it looks like they yank back on the yoke to pull up. Which is pretty much the worst thing you could do if you are approaching a stall. It's almost like their flight controls got inverted or something.

5/18/2009 2:18:17 PM

Quote :

"Do you keep an E6B in the cockpit... just in case?"

ahahahahaah. 10/10

[Edited on May 18, 2009 at 2:33 PM. Reason : I don't know why I found that so funny, but I did.]

5/18/2009 2:29:34 PM

would you ever abandon your plane midair?

5/18/2009 2:38:44 PM

you jewbag

5/18/2009 4:50:55 PM

I'm colorblind. Can I become a pilot?

5/18/2009 4:54:39 PM

Quote :

"i am interested in your take on what incorrect actions the pilot and first officer took if you feel like getting into that later"

i would be interested in this too. from what I've read it sounded like the captain spent a good amount of time hitting on the first officer (sort of reading between the lines on that) rather than focusing on flying the aircraft. ok, maybe not hitting on her, but it sounded like the conversation was a little too nonchalant.

5/18/2009 7:00:46 PM

I gave my perspective on the crash in the lounge thread: http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=566263&page=1

Quote :

"would you ever abandon your plane midair?"

No can do. The cabin on my aircraft is pressurized and the doors are plug-type, so unless I can apply some massive psi counter-force, I'm stuck in the aluminum tube.

Quote :

"I'm colorblind. Can I become a pilot?"

I believe it depends on how bad you have it. I have a friend that's a pilot for American Eagle (the airline) who has some level of color blindness. He needed to get a waiver from the FAA. I believe they give you a light gun test, and if you can tell three colors apart you pretty much pass. Don't know which they were or if that's even entirely accurate, so don't quote me.

5/19/2009 12:24:17 AM

Here's some photos I took with my phone from last week:

5/19/2009 12:32:59 AM

Have you ever got in a car after taxiiing a long time and tried to steer with with the pedals?

5/19/2009 12:45:05 AM

Haha nah. I guess I can subconsciously differentiate between a vehicle with wings and one without. I wonder why that is.

5/19/2009 12:52:39 AM

what are on those little printouts the pilots get just before take off? flight plan? take off instructions?



[Edited on May 19, 2009 at 8:26 AM. Reason : ]

5/19/2009 8:26:04 AM

^^Well when you are flying you have one foot on each pedal but when you are driving you generally only use one foot for both pedals.

5/19/2009 9:51:36 AM

for those curious about the Buffalo crash, Patrick Smith of Ask the Pilot has another followup on it
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2009/05/15/askthepilot320/index2.html

5/19/2009 10:06:36 AM

^^ Unless you're driving a stick shift, in which case it's one foot for the clutch and one foot for brake and accelerate

5/19/2009 11:00:28 AM

Quote :

"what are on those little printouts the pilots get just before take off? flight plan? take off instructions?"

Are you referring to the paper at the gate (not little) or something in the cockpit?

I used to wonder why pilots used to grab what looked like a roll of industrial sized toilet paper from the gate agent and then drag it like a wedding dress down the jet bridge too.

If that's what you're referring to, you got it. Most of it.

The first section is the release, which is required by the FAA for airline operations. A copy of it is signed before the flight by the captain and the gate agent takes it. It acknowledges acceptance of the release; he checks that an alternate airport is provided (if required), verifies inoperative equipment has been logged properly (if any), it contains the crew names, etc.

The next section is a computerized flight plan that contains info like projected weights, estimated fuel burns, estimated times, and routing information.

Then you have performance data, which contains numbers for take off and landing.

Finally, many many pages of weather/NOTAMs are at the back. NOTAM stands for notice to airmen, which contains information about airports such as taxiway/runway closings, navigational aids being out of service, etc.

5/19/2009 11:54:41 AM

I mean seriously, why the hell can I not use my cellphone or other approved electronic devices?

5/19/2009 11:58:02 AM

you can't use your cell phone during the whole flight. You can't use your "approved electronic devices" only during take off and landing. Those are separate issues.

I've read you can't use any devices during take off and landing, basically so that you don't have laptops cluttering the seats and headphones in your ears, in the case of an emergency, which is more likely during takeoff/landing.

The cell phone ban is just a holdover from really old FAA rules, that there has not been enough of a push to overturn. There is no risk of cell phone interfering with cockpit devices or anything, as some people feared early on. But now that the rule is in place, there's a lot of momentum behind not changing it.

5/19/2009 12:01:36 PM

Quote :

"I mean seriously, why the hell can I not use my cellphone or other approved electronic devices?"

The first part of that^ sounds accurate, but the second

Quote :

"There is no risk of cell phone interfering with cockpit devices or anything, as some people feared early on."

I have had experience to the contrary.

All those electronic devices around for takeoff and landing could become potential projectiles following an aborted takeoff, a short runway landing, etc. So I don't think those regulations will change anytime soon.

As for the cell phones, I've left mine on, on occasion, and have had some interference a few times with the communication equip (ever leave it near your computer speakers and get that ticka ticka ticka ticka sound?).

But no it's not gonna make the plane turn upside down. And the navigation equipment we have is a few hundred MHz lower than the GSM band. Anyway, good luck getting signal at 34,000 feet in an aluminum tube.

5/19/2009 12:27:34 PM

well, yeah.... the "tika tika tika" sound seems to happen on all wireless com devices. Seems like you hear it more and more on TV and radio interviews, where people have left phones in their pockets on while on the air. I bet it drives producers crazy, who probably tell all their guests "turn you phones off, not just to vibrate!"

but actually scrambling messages or something? nah. won't happen

5/19/2009 10:24:40 PM

when the pilot comes on the intercom and says "please remain seated with your seatbelts fastened, this means you too seat 23A", is he/she serious?

5/19/2009 10:31:59 PM

Quote :

"why the hell can I not use my cellphone"

This is an FCC driven regulation, actually, not an FAA one. I've had my cell phone on above about 4000' AGL (not in a commercial aircraft) and it'll bump from full service to 0 bars about ever 3-5 seconds. It wears itself out jumping from signal to signal, so chances are, your phone wouldn't work either.

5/20/2009 9:44:55 AM

set em up

5/20/2009 9:50:47 AM