Quote :

"The new car must be financed through a dealership (Which they will more than likely increase their rate for)"

this is fairly irrelevant. you can finance it through the dealership as required, borrow the money wherever you want to, pay off the dealership loan right then, and then just pay the interest rate you found at another institution.

7/8/2009 2:03:43 PM

There's still plenty of money to be made for the dealer in assorted backend/finance charges, even if the customer refinances through another bank the next month.

Dealers aren't stupid at all when it comes to money. And who knows, by the time this bill passes, there could damn well be a clause that states the lien holder cannot be changed for "x" months. Shit, there could even be a "special" buy rate included for the dealers only that other banks couldn't touch.

[Edited on July 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM. Reason : d]

7/8/2009 2:24:12 PM

true

7/8/2009 2:35:30 PM

I'd consider using this law to my advantage. I have an 89 BMW 325i that I'd be lucky to get $1200 for. According to fueleconomy.gov it gets 18MPG combined which barely makes it a "clunker". I'm sure I could get a Civic with a handful of options and talk them down to $16k. Knock off $4500 with the credit and I'd be looking at $11,500 + the Bimmer for a brand new commuter. I could always pull the stereo, swap the rims/tires for steel rollers, and pull a handful of miscellaneous parts to sell or put on my next BMW to make it an even sweeter deal.

I'd only want to do it on a car like the Civic that doesn't depreciate very quickly. That way I could get out of the car after a year or two (assuming they don't have a clause preventing it) and feel like I came out ahead.

[Edited on July 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : l]

7/8/2009 3:41:25 PM

I'd pull whatever you want off the Bimmer, because if you don't, someone along the line will

I'm also wondering if there will be a stipulation regarding discounting sticker price.

7/8/2009 3:55:10 PM

as of now they're hoping dealers will offer additional incentives.

My recommendation is to price-shop several dealerships without mentioning the clunker deal, and add that in at the end. If they try to jack the rate or change the price, walk the fuck out. I'm not sure you guys realize how fucking awful the market is right now for new car sales. Shit is circling the drain atm, some lots still have 2008 models sitting on the blacktop, and the 2010's are coming out.

Also remember, they are prohibited from charging any sort of fee relating to the use of the clunker vouchers.

7/8/2009 4:48:23 PM

well its running out of money. pointless thread is pointless.

7/31/2009 8:22:38 AM

Quote :

"The gov't can't even run a auto rebate program efficiently..but by all means let's hand over the health-care system to it."

7/31/2009 8:26:12 AM

We took advantage of this shit on Wednesday.


We got $1 for our scrap metal on a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee.



Got a 2009 Subaru Forester

7/31/2009 8:27:15 AM

I don't understand the negativity. Isn't the fact that we blew through these rebates faster than expected a good thing? Congress just needs to authorize some more money and keep it going.

7/31/2009 8:38:48 AM

Quote :

"Congress just needs to authorize some more money and keep it going."

7/31/2009 8:41:38 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand the negativity. Isn't the fact that we blew through these rebates faster than expected a good thing? Congress just needs to authorize some more money and keep it going."

It's our (your) money.

Congress blowing through our (your) money faster is not usually a good thing.

7/31/2009 9:24:25 AM

Hahaha my sister wrote this bill. Nice to see all the love for it.

7/31/2009 9:39:22 AM

Is Patman serious?

^if I were you I'd keep that to yourself

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 9:43 AM. Reason : huge embarassment]

7/31/2009 9:41:43 AM

Well, we spent a billion dollars to get 22,782 old cars off the road a year or two before it would have happened anyways.



That's 0.009% of the cars on the road.

7/31/2009 9:45:31 AM

Quote :

"We got $1 for our scrap metal on a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee."

Ummm...Wasn't that worth more than $4500?

I took advantage of the program as well. Thx to all of you who pay taxes for helping to pay for my new car.

7/31/2009 9:51:16 AM

^^^agree or disagree it's quite an accomplishment for someone 24 years old.

7/31/2009 5:09:57 PM

i am glad they used my tax money on this, the whole 0.000001%(made up number but 3billion is rounding error on gov budget) of my tax money to reduce the shitty old cars with black smoke coming out the tailpipe that i get stuck behind in traffic.

7/31/2009 5:29:03 PM

^very few of the only 22,XXX cars they got off the road fit that description. you had to buy a new car (not used or pre-owned) to get the money and the people who are driving those cars don't have the money to buy a new car right now anyway.

pretty obvious that the writers of this shit either gave it very little forethought or simply didn't give a shit

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 5:36 PM. Reason : and they don't need to be buying new cars anyway. shit like that's what put us in this econ BS]

7/31/2009 5:35:35 PM

Quote :

"pretty obvious that the writers of this shit either gave it very little forethought or simply didn't give a shit"

something tells me that hkrock's sister doesn't know shit about automobiles.

I admit that a 24 yr old having a lot of input on a federal bill is impressive. unfortunately most stuff that goes through the gov't this day is laughably retarded and accomplishes nothing but wasteful and inefficient programs.

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 5:39 PM. Reason : k]

7/31/2009 5:38:57 PM

So this shit is in effect now? I thought we still had a few months or w/e for the Senate to approve it

^because his sister is, without a doubt, 24

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 5:42 PM. Reason : unless you personally him, which i doubt]

7/31/2009 5:41:22 PM

actually, it's already gone into effect, used up its entire budget, and been ended

you are late, son

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 5:42 PM. Reason : lasted 6 days LOL!]

7/31/2009 5:42:12 PM

mother fuck

Yeah what the hell, this was the worst use of tax money ever. 6 days, 22,XXX cars? That isn't even enough new cars for all the students at NC State.

______________ FOR PRESIDENT 2012

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 5:43 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2009 5:42:54 PM

this thing is like the perfect example of how inefficient this goverment is

22,782 x 4,500 = 102,519,000

so they just blew the rest of that $1 billion out their asses

7/31/2009 5:45:11 PM

I bet they lost most of it on poor investments

7/31/2009 5:49:00 PM

the whole damn program was a bad investment

7/31/2009 5:50:06 PM

Quote :

"agree or disagree it's quite an accomplishment for someone 24 years old."

no one should put this bullshit on anyone's list of "accomplishments"

file it under "mistakes i can learn from" at best

7/31/2009 5:54:17 PM

Quote :

"Ummm...Wasn't that worth more than $4500?"

ahahaha no...my husband put 80,000 miles on it in the 4 years he owned it (he bought it used)


the engine kept seizing up on us on I-40 during rush hour


but hey, it drove on to the dealer's lot so thats all that they care about


we did take the spare tire out to sell

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM. Reason : f]

7/31/2009 6:08:51 PM

i would've pulled the seats out, changed out the rims for some steelies, pulled head lights, brake lights, radio, speakers, every piece of trim, hell take the doors off, what does the dealer care?

7/31/2009 6:12:06 PM

haha you internet guys are the best

7/31/2009 8:45:24 PM

your sister said i was definitely the best she'd ever had, anyway

7/31/2009 8:49:37 PM

zing

7/31/2009 8:52:09 PM

Writing a shitty bill that wastes our money FTL

8/1/2009 12:54:17 AM

Fhqwhgads, you could've got a lot more than $1 for the car for scrap metal... Shit, I hope you're joking. Dealers are never going to give you what it's worth. You could've taken to a junkyard, put up parts on Jeep forums, anything. And "in this economy", every penny is worth it.

8/1/2009 1:47:55 AM

Quote :

"Hahaha my sister wrote this bill. Nice to see all the love for it. is the one that fucked this one up "

Quote :

"agree or disagree it's quite an accomplishment for someone 24 years old."

I think the ole' saying goes...."It looked better on paper". Nothing like considering to repeal a bill less than a month after it goes into law.

8/1/2009 4:19:35 AM

i thought they were looking to increase its funding, not repeal it . . .

8/1/2009 5:01:58 AM

They've thrown another $2 billion at it.

Quote :

"Fhqwhgads, you could've got a lot more than $1 for the car for scrap metal... "

According to the law, dealers are required to offer the consumer a "best estimate" of the scrappage value. The dealer can then keep up to $50 to cover their administrative costs of the bill.

In theory, Fhqwhgads Jeep is worth about $51 in scrap.

In reality, I'm sure dealers are consistently offering very low best estimates and pocketing the difference.

[Edited on August 1, 2009 at 9:00 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2009 8:40:08 AM

^That was the beginning of my post. Of course dealers are going to give shitty deals. I was saying they could've taken the Jeep to a junkyard and probably gotten a lot more than $1. Hell, with just the engine shot, they probably could've gotten $25-250 at a junkyard, depending on how in demand Jeeps are.

8/1/2009 11:43:42 AM

Quote :

"gotta bribe ppl with their own money now a days to get them to change their ways"

thats how its always been

that said, im all for returning taxpayer money to the taxpayer

8/1/2009 12:00:42 PM

There's more to it than just giving taxpayers' money back.

CARS has already spent $1 billion. With a $4,500 maximum incentive, somewhere around 222,000 people have purchased cars.

The average new car price is about $28,000, or $23,500 with the incentive.

222,000 * $23,500 = $5.2 billion.

With the extra $2 billion the program will likely receive, that number could potentially rise to $15.6 billion. A good chunk of that money is likely financed which will incur additional costs.

This isn't a refund of taxpayer money. This is another auto industry bailout.

We could choose to spend that money on anything. Schools. Roads. Bridges. Municipal utilities. Aging infrastructure. Research. Going to the moon.

Instead--in the middle of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression--we choose to spend that money on a fucking car.

What will we have to show for all this money in four or five years? Absolutely nothing.

8/1/2009 12:49:01 PM

Quote :

"I was saying they could've taken the Jeep to a junkyard and probably gotten a lot more than $1"

but it's not hers to take to the junkyard. she traded it in (gave it to the dealer) for $4500 through the CARS program. the dealer can give her whatever they want to for the scrap value, but she doesn't get to go scrap it herself. i don't think you fully understand how this whole thing works.

8/1/2009 9:23:27 PM

I could not have gotten $4500 for the car.


it was not going to pass inspection b/c of the tires.

8/1/2009 9:38:32 PM

I took advantage of the bill two weeks in advance and traded in a 1986 crown vic for a new Hyundai Elantra and got the full $4,500.

8/2/2009 1:30:31 AM

Anyone have solid numbers on current sales and rebates obtained? I want to see some efficiency calculations.

8/2/2009 4:03:08 AM

unless you bought a honda or toyota you lost all the money you "saved" by buying new the second you pulled off the lot.

someone dumb enough to buy a 15mpg car would be dumb enough to buy new. i guess you cant blame them.

8/2/2009 9:20:34 AM

Quote :

"^^^agree or disagree it's quite an accomplishment for someone 24 years old."

im very curious which committee or member your sister works for and what she told you that lead you to the conclusion that she wrote the bill, especially, as your comment seems to affirm, that she alone is responsible for the bill.

while i've certainly seen it before and she may be a legislative wunderkid, there are very few 24 y/os in Senate offices (or House for that matter) who are in any way involved with developing legislative agendas or specific initiatives. there are, however, TONS of self-important lower level staffers who love to blow up their own spots.

8/2/2009 9:20:58 AM

Well it is DC after all. But I don't think it matters much if you believe me or not.

8/2/2009 1:47:18 PM

based on the amount of stupid in that legislation, i totally believe you

8/2/2009 1:53:13 PM

She's a UNC grad.

8/2/2009 1:54:18 PM

The legislation is brilliant - a stimulus that's both cheap (in relative terms) and effective. People spending money, more efficient cars on the road (more than 2/3rds of new applications are for 10+MPG increases), everyone wins.

Except crying conservatives who are desperate for everything the administration pushes fail, regardless of whether its a good idea or not.

8/2/2009 2:00:08 PM