Guyz, this thread is not about industrial production.

10/20/2009 4:41:37 PM

^ You're right--it's about VP Joe Doofus. Thanks.

10/20/2009 4:43:13 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, Fuck the Third WOrld. **spits on brown person**"

It's not our job to look out for them, they should be looking out for themselves... or are you some kind of commie?


For Page 2:

"many" lol, how descriptive

Quote :

"kooksaw: WTF are you babbling about? Do you even know? Many companies have had to increase production because they lowered or depleted their inventories."

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2009 4:43:48 PM

As much as I think dwelling on these gaffes (or truths, depending on perspective) coming out of Biden is ridiculous...





... that pic amuses me every time I see it. It'd probably even amuse me without the shoe, that facial expression is just fantastic.

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2009 4:44:35 PM

Quote :

"People have been saving money, that's part of the current problems. Our economy, somewhere along the mid-90s, switched from being driven by manufacturing to being driven by consumer spending."

Saving money is not the problem, it's the solution. The Federal Reserve has made it so there's almost no incentive to save with near zero interest rates. Without saving, you don't have business capital. Without capital, you don't have production. Without production, we import almost everything, while exporting much less. The result is a trade deficit, which is what we have now.

Quote :

"If we have the perception that things are going to be okay, people will start to spend money a little more. This is at best a stop-gap measure."

Spending might keep the self-sustaining economy going a bit longer (i.e. a stop-gap measure), but that's about it. Saving is the solution. Bush told Americans to spend spend spend during the 2000-2002 recession. That was bad advice. In times of economic turmoil, spending more isn't the best thing for most individuals. People are going to have to reduce luxury spending. By doing that, they'll have more money to cover basic essentials (housing, food, transportation), while also having more money to invest in profitable business ventures.

Quote :

"You're right that this is not sustainable, but the only option is an even worse recession while we/our corporations figure out how to make money without forcing people or themselves into debt."

I think the "even worse recession" is all but inevitable at this point. It needs to happen, otherwise we're just reinflating the bubble. Recessions are bad, but necessary to correct imbalances created by the "booms." And the last twenty years has been one gigantic, debt-funded boom.

Quote :

"And regarding production, what production are you talking about? No company is going to do any production here, in this economy, when it's still cheaper to do it off shores. We can't rely on production anymore. We have to start "exporting ideas," as that new GE commercial has been saying (something along those lines)."

When I say production, I mean producing anything of value. Ideas, car parts, it really doesn't matter. The point is, something of value is being produced that can be traded for other goods from other countries.

Quote :

"Apple, for example, just announced their most profitable quarter in their history. We're a fairly luxurious country, and this luxury affords us the ability to focus on innovation and creativity. We should be letting the 3rd world worry about where their next meals are coming from as they manufacture our goods, while we tell them what to manufacture."

Apple has been profitable because it is producing items that people want to buy. This country has been living a luxurious lifestyle, on the whole, but it was a lifestyle it couldn't afford. The majority of innovation and creativity will no longer take place here, but in emerging economies overseas. The third world sacrificied while we rode the wave of dollar domination. The tide is changing, and those countries that have saved their money and ramped up production will be the new "first world." As the rest of the world detaches from the declining dollar, which I'm sure you've been hearing quite a bit about lately, and we are producing nothing of real value, we will become the new second or third world.

10/20/2009 4:48:52 PM

Quote :

"or are you some kind of commie? "

Not a commie, just someone that doesn't believe in economic enslavement

10/20/2009 4:49:28 PM

Quote :

"I think the "even worse recession" is all but inevitable at this point. It needs to happen, otherwise we're just reinflating the bubble. Recessions are bad, but necessary to correct imbalances created by the "booms." And the last twenty years has been one gigantic, debt-funded boom."

I think this is where our views diverge.

It seems cruel to me that we must let a worse recession happen. I believe we have the power and knowledge to make the transition easy, if we wanted to.

10/20/2009 4:53:47 PM

Quote :

"I think this is where our views diverge. It seems cruel to me that we must let a worse recession happen. I believe we have the power and knowledge to make the transition easy, if we wanted to."

Indeed.

The political establishment agrees with you, and the policies of the last few years demonstrate that. It kills politicians to just "let" a recession happen, especially when they're trying to get re-elected. I do think it's necessary, though. I hope, for my own sake, that you're right, and we'll be able to spend our way out of this mess. It just seems like a grand delusion to me. Keynesians maintain that, at some unknown point, outrageous debt will start being a good thing. Who knows when we'll reach that point. My guess is that we'll just keep borrowing in an attempt to reach that point, but I'm not confident that we will.

10/20/2009 5:11:31 PM

hooksaw's latest so-called gaffe is pretty much on par with this
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/gaffe_prone_biden_embarrasses

10/21/2009 11:53:26 PM

^ That was stupid leftist bufoonery.

[Edited on October 22, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : BTW, is SNL still as funny to you these days? ]

10/22/2009 2:43:31 PM

MSLSD

LIEBERALS

10/22/2009 2:48:20 PM

^^ yes, it is.
Of course, i'm sure you realize that SNL writers and actors are overwhelmingly liberal, so the recent sketches making fun of Obama are satirizing the Right's criticisms of him, and pointing out things that the Left should legitimately be upset with him for


btw, like SNL, the liberals at The Onion aren't afraid of making fun of their own kind, something you rarely if ever see from Conservative comedians
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_undertakes_presidential
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/poll_happy_healthy_obamas_out_of
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/white_house_reveals_obama_is
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_to_enter_diplomatic_talks

[Edited on October 22, 2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason : .]

10/22/2009 9:57:36 PM

Quote :

"I believe we have the power and knowledge to make the transition easy, if we wanted to."

So did Greenspan.

10/22/2009 10:43:58 PM

Vice President Biden's Favorable Rating Continues to Decline
Forty-two percent view vice president favorably, 40% unfavorably
October 26, 2009

Quote :

"Historical Comparison Not Kind to Biden Gallup has measured public opinion of government leaders using the favorable/unfavorable question format since 1992, so it has comparable data only on Vice Presidents Al Gore and Dick Cheney. Both Gore (63% in January 1993) and Cheney (61% in January 2001) had higher favorable ratings immediately before taking office than did Biden (53% in January 2009). Though Gallup did not measure the vice presidents' favorable ratings often during the first year of each administration, the available data show both Gore (55% based on five measurements) and Cheney (65% based on three measurements) having higher average favorable ratings in their first year than Biden does (45% based on two measurements) thus far. Biden also departs from his immediate predecessors in being significantly less popular than his boss. Gore's and Cheney's first-year averages were similar to Bill Clinton's and George W. Bush's, respectively."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123860/Vice-President-Biden-Favorable-Rating-Continues-Decline.aspx

[Edited on October 28, 2009 at 3:57 AM. Reason : .]

10/28/2009 3:56:10 AM

Quote :

"That's why I've asked Vice President Biden to lead a tough, unprecedented oversight effort--because nobody messes with Joe."

--Barack Obama, February 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm7ealIcS_8

Biden says errors on Recovery.gov will be fixed
November 18, 2009

http://tinyurl.com/yhgjvg8

Guess who's in charge of this? That's right, VP Joe "Doofus" Biden aka "Rhetorical Flourishes"!



What's the number?

11/19/2009 2:34:16 PM

I don't see how that has any affect on his oversight ability.

11/19/2009 2:35:40 PM

Quote :

"I don't see how that has any affect effect on his oversight ability."

Fixed.

What oversight?

11/19/2009 2:39:34 PM

Quote :

"What oversight?"

The oversight you mentioned literally 5 minutes before asking this question...

11/19/2009 11:41:36 PM

sarcasm is a new thing to you, isn't it

11/19/2009 11:49:27 PM

^hooksaw's track record would indicate that the concept is usually far beyond him. I tend not to expect it.

11/19/2009 11:53:44 PM

Quote :

"out of 130,000 people reporting in what they did with the money…70 did not know how to count.""

that’s an error percentage of .05% (or a rate of .0005) which is pretty good. If those numbers are right, then Biden really should be commended for his oversight, if anything.

11/19/2009 11:55:50 PM

Beyond Reid's Comments About Obama, Book Claims Obama-Biden Clashes
January 10, 2010

Quote :

"How many times is Biden gonna say something stupid?"

--Barack Obama

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/reid_obama_skin_negro_book_cli.html



LMAO!

1/10/2010 7:09:27 PM

bump by request

3/24/2010 9:58:39 AM

1/10/10 - 3/24/10 is less than 90 days, shouldn't it have been bumpable anyway?

3/24/2010 10:01:33 AM

This thread is a big fucking deal.

3/24/2010 10:01:41 AM

He's got the Press Secretary backing him up on his latest use of colorful language.

3/24/2010 10:02:45 AM

Seriously who cares if he says fuck?

Everyone says fuck.

It's fucking stupid that this is even news-worthy.

3/24/2010 10:05:43 AM

a man said fuck! to the president!!!!!1 fuck!!!!

3/24/2010 10:28:21 AM

this is a big fucking deal!!!

3/24/2010 10:28:42 AM

ZOMG BIden said the F-Word!!!!!!!!!! Impeach now!!!!

3/24/2010 11:53:54 AM

Let us all not forget...

3/24/2010 12:29:58 PM

adults using adult language. whod'a thought

3/25/2010 1:20:52 AM

3/25/2010 8:20:43 PM

The Wolf Web is probably not the best venue for a discussion on decorum and discretion.

3/26/2010 11:18:14 AM

bump

6/29/2010 2:21:58 PM

He asked a custard shop owner why the guy has to be a smart ass and then said he was just kidding. [/story]

*cue the "foot in mouth" picture*

(and no, I was not the one who asked for this silliness to be bumped, but I am sure you all only need one guess as to whom it was.)

6/29/2010 3:04:05 PM

^ Well, it made headlines in USA Today, one of the mostly widely circulated newspapers in the nation and hardly a right-wing operation, among many other media outlets. Would you call Biden's comment a smart move?

Biden makes another unfortunate choice of words - USA Today
Jun 28, 2010

Quote :

"Vice President Joe Biden has done it again, this time over the weekend at a Wisconsin custard shop. When Biden asked Scott Borkin how much he owed him, the manager of Kopp's Frozen Custard in Glendale, Wisc., joked: 'Don't worry, it's on the house. ... Lower our taxes and we'll call it even.' Later, Biden circled back and said: 'Why don't you say something nice instead of being a [smartass] all the time?'"

http://tinyurl.com/2ebg6de

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQK2YchAnnM



(You know you want me to post this--admit it.)

But on a more substantive note--I mean, we all know that Biden's foot is permanently stuck in his mouth--he said this:

Biden: No way will we get the lost jobs back
June 28, 2010

Quote :

"Before Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination in 2008, Joe Biden was widely acknowledged as the Gaffemaster of his party. And if one defines a gaffe as the accidental disclosure of an embarrassing political truth, then the Vice President managed to maintain his reputation this weekend. When addressing a fundraiser for embattled incumbent Senator Russ Feingold in Milwaukee, Biden told an audience to get used to high unemployment, because the jobs lost in the recession aren't coming back: 'Vice President Joe Biden gave a stark assessment of the economy today, telling an audience of supporters, "there's no possibility to restore 8 million jobs lost in the Great Recession." Appearing at a fundraiser with Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) in Milwaukee, the vice president remarked that by the time he and President Obama took office in 2008, the gross domestic product had shrunk and hundreds of thousands of jobs had been lost. "We inherited a godawful mess," he said, adding there was "no way to regenerate $3 trillion that was lost. Not misplaced, lost."'"

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/28/biden-no-way-will-we-get-the-lost-jobs-back/

Way to give up, Joe!

6/29/2010 3:12:24 PM

Oh what sad times are these when blunt honesty is characterized as a gaffe.

6/29/2010 3:46:28 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure why that'd be a gaffe. He's quite correct that a lot of those jobs aren't coming back.

6/29/2010 3:48:19 PM

But, but, but this is just a glimpse at the TRUTH! When Joe was asked about taxes do you see how defensive he got immediately? Their plan is to raise your taxes and any challenge to that angers them greatly!!!1

-Hannity.

6/29/2010 3:55:19 PM

So, was it a smart move for Biden to make the comment at issue or not? And, FTR, I didn't get the Biden thing from FOX News; I actually first saw it on the MSN Web site.

6/29/2010 4:03:41 PM

Personally, I'd rather see elected officials being honest like that more often. Smart = honest. I don't think it's a gaffe to state something like that about lost jobs, because they really aren't coming back. Also, why did you bring up Fox News? No one mentioned it in reference to your topic bump.

6/29/2010 4:09:17 PM

^ I was referring to the admittedly less important "smartass" comment. Biden's comments about jobs, however, seem to fly in the face of earlier pronouncements of how great the recovery was going and so on. And don't forget that Biden heads up (supposedly) Recovery.gov--even though he couldn't remember the "number" of the Web site.

And "Hannity" is listed in the post just above yours. He appears on FOX News.

6/29/2010 4:15:32 PM

You're right, I didn't think about the Hannity bit (although he's on radio more than Fox News, technically ). Stuff like this really just reminds me of how much of a spin culture that news has become, in general. It's not about honest facts and figures anymore, as much as it is putting the proper spin on the message you're trying to get out. When you see Biden saying something like this, it seems out of the ordinary because it's not bullshit.

[Edited on June 29, 2010 at 4:21 PM. Reason : cc fail]

6/29/2010 4:20:49 PM

^ I agree about the spin stuff. But I don't think either comment by Biden was a smart move.

I mean, there is even a serious move on to dump Biden in 2012, and the type of comments in question and a parade of others just aren't helpful to Obama or the Democrats as a whole:

Obama Could Dump Biden for Clinton as VP in 2012
Democratic strategists say Obama doesn't need Biden for foreign policy issues anymore
February 5, 2010

http://tinyurl.com/32us553

And if Obama dumps Biden for, say, Hillary in 2012, you guys on the left will throw Biden under the bus so fast he won't even have time to stop for an ice cream a custard (Biden apparently got that wrong, too).

[Edited on June 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/29/2010 4:37:31 PM

Dumping Biden would be political suicide.

6/29/2010 4:42:16 PM

^ Not true. And Obama had better take Hillary in 2012--before she challenges him for the presidency:

Hillary in 2012? It could happen
June 25, 2010

http://tinyurl.com/3xkzd5h

I'm telling you, Optimum--forget my politics for a second--there are A LOT of folks out there with buyer's remorse about Obama. A lot.

6/29/2010 4:48:18 PM

nice poll, hooksaw. maybe people are thinking they shoulda picked Hillary instead of Barack, but even less people are considering a republican alternative.

Quote :

"Both Hillary and President Obama are thought to be more qualified for the job than three Republicans who have expressed interest in it. Ms. Clinton, according to this poll, is thought to be qualified by 57 percent of the voter respondents, while 34 percent say she is not. As for the president, 51 percent think him qualified for the job he has held for the last year and a half, while 44 percent disagree. Republican Mitt Romney is close behind with 49 percent saying the former Massachusetts governor is qualified and 32 percent thinking not. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Alaska governor and 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin trail far behind. "

thankfully people have learned their lessons.


anyhow, its no surprise that Hillary is looking good : shes sitting on the bench, not getting dirty. Obama has two major crises on his hands, neither of them his making or are able to be affected much by his immediate actions.

these opinion polls are meaningless for the long term. there's too many unknowns between now and 2012.









[Edited on June 29, 2010 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2010 4:48:22 PM

^^ hooksaw, I'm gay, and I feel that sort of emotion moreso than most. I want to see him push for gay rights things, but he's inching along and not shouldering any of the heavy-lifting responsibility. You don't need to remind me that he's not the everything that some portrayed him to be. I see it far more personally than most.

[Edited on June 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM. Reason : Typo]

6/29/2010 4:54:09 PM

gay rights would be damaged more by a heavy handed executive push, than the current cautious approach.

you people just need to wait it out until society inevitably catches up.

women and blacks did it, you can too.

6/29/2010 4:58:04 PM