^ I'm sure you wish this to be true.

But look at the polling data.

7/24/2009 1:08:29 PM

i look at a democratic congressional blog and see nothing

7/24/2009 1:09:59 PM

But then you realize they're directly quoting Polls conducted by Pew, NYT, WP, and the WSJ, and feel stupid.

7/24/2009 1:12:50 PM

how bout you update your links

7/24/2009 1:24:14 PM

all of those polls were from over a month ago

a lot has changed

7/24/2009 1:25:51 PM

Mine's a month old.

How old is your citation?

Oh, right.

You don't have a citation.

Care to back up your claims with evidence? One would think that if people were turning to the Republican Party, the GOP's poll numbers would be somewhere other than record-breaking lows.

7/24/2009 1:27:22 PM

Quote :

"Only one party in America agrees with independent voters, and that is the Libertarian Party. Republicans spent 14 years fattening government with their ever-escalating budgets. Even the Republican ‘alternative budget’ called for massive deficits and bigger spending. Once again, Libertarians are the only mainstream party in America. Only Libertarians will reduce the size and cost of government. Obama and the Republicans have us spiraling towards national bankruptcy. ... Grassroots Republicans oppose Big Government and want a party that agrees with them. Once again, the Libertarian Party is the only party that proposes cutting spending. We don’t follow the still-vibrant Republican tradition of making government bigger and costlier each year. -Donny Ferguson, Libertarian National Committee Communications Director"

[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2009 1:39:40 PM

I'd agree that lower-case "l" libertarianism is the most mainstream choice.

Capital "L" Libertarians are batshit insane.

7/24/2009 1:43:05 PM

Quote :

"LIDDY: Yeah, I’ve got the deposition of the step-grandmother who said she witnessed [Obama's kenyan birth]""

well, that settles it.

deport the fucker.

7/24/2009 2:15:35 PM

If there's a single man on this earth you can trust, it's convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy!

7/24/2009 2:18:20 PM

Is any Republican in the Soap Box going to step up and claim their party?

7/24/2009 3:33:24 PM

wth is a birther?

7/24/2009 3:37:41 PM

republican


(waiting for liberal backlash)

7/24/2009 3:46:37 PM

Johnny Ramone was a republican and I dont hate him

7/24/2009 4:06:31 PM

I don't understand why anybody thinks ranting about the birth certificate is a good idea -- even those who really believe it's valid.

Let's say, after all the talk and discussion, it comes out that Barack wasn't born in this country and is thus constitutionally ineligible to be President. That would mean he would have to step down, and the remainder of his term would be filled by Joe Biden, a frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic whose insanity borders on the criminal and who should probably be forced to wear a Hannibal Lecter mask to prevent him from eating congressional aides.

Quote :

"Once again, Libertarians are the only mainstream party in America."

I don't think this person understands what "mainstream" means.

[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 4:12 PM. Reason : aides not aids]

7/24/2009 4:12:08 PM

^
Joe Biden may be the secret brain behind the Birther movement.

7/24/2009 6:07:26 PM

Quote :

"Grassroots Republicans oppose Big Government and want a party that agrees with them. Once again, the Libertarian Party is the only party that proposes cutting spending. We don’t follow the still-vibrant Republican tradition of making government bigger and costlier each year."

good fucking luck getting the palin crowd to agree w/ you on drugs, censorship, defense, immigration, religion in public life, etc.

this is why the Libertarian Party isn't going anywhere. The GOP members they think are closest to them are insane and hardly what they want, and the ones they hate are probably closer to them than they think (on the issues i mentioned earlier, sans defense), but they don't want them.

maybe the solution is to agitate within the system rather than screaming at the system from a mountain a million miles away where noone hears you?

7/24/2009 6:31:06 PM

Quote :

"this is why the Libertarian Party isn't going anywhere. The GOP members they think are closest to them are insane and hardly what they want, and the ones they hate are probably closer to them than they think (on the issues i mentioned earlier, sans defense), but they don't want them."

I will grant the first half of your premise - the GOP basically has what amounts to a muted hostility towards libertarians, occasionally being expressed by assholes like Lindsay Graham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy48BKd-1TI

So sure. Republicans are basically light years away from Libertarians, despite their talk of small government and other insincere platitudes.

That being said, how exactly have the Democrats proved more accommodating? Fuck me, every time I as much bring up issues like drug policy, I get heckled even more by the declared Democrats on this board than I do the Republicans. One look at Obama's appointments seems to indicate he and Congressional Democrats aren't going to be reversing any of the damage done by Republicans on social policy - civil liberties, the war on drugs, etc.

So, that leaves what of your list? Immigration (maybe? If they're not fantastic pussies about it.) Censorship? Have you listened to Michael Copps? Religion in public life? Well, I guess that's a nice consolation prize for socialized medicine.

So basically we get is a whole lot of meaningless talk and open hostility. Well gee, doesn't seem like a whole lot better than the current arrangement.

I'm not saying you're wrong that libertarians should work within the system. But frankly, the Democrats don't seem too terribly much more accommodating, either. Frankly my tactical assessment is to generally be anti-incumbent - that probably works just as well.

7/24/2009 6:45:21 PM

i'll give you legalizing pot. i don't know many people below 30 who believe that pot illegality is just.

but the harder drugs seem like they'd cause a big mess if they were legalized.

but i DO think we should change our enforcement policy massively into doing more to treat drug problems.

7/24/2009 6:49:22 PM

jesus christ, why is pot not legal

i mean, i know why, but come on

7/24/2009 7:48:03 PM

Quote :

"but the harder drugs seem like they'd cause a big mess if they were legalized."

Perhaps not. Decriminalization in Portugal led to a decrease in use of harder drugs, such as heroin.

7/25/2009 11:04:30 AM

oohhh, CNN President tells Lou Dobbs that the Birther Story is "dead" and to cut it out
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/feature/2009/07/24/klein_dobbs/

of course, the one thing conspiracy theorists like the most is when media officials tell their underlings to shut up

7/25/2009 11:16:58 AM

It's a conspiracy, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

7/25/2009 12:58:00 PM

Quote :

"They have a point,” he said of the birthers. “I don’t discourage it. ... But I’m going to pursue defeating [Obama] on things that I think are very destructive to America."

- Jim Inhofe (R-OK) http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B942F75E-18FE-70B2-A860D1FD975C12A6

Awesome, we now have US senators supporting this crackpot bullshit.

7/27/2009 12:59:03 PM

McCain even killed this

7/27/2009 1:00:08 PM

Quote :

"Is any Republican in the Soap Box going to step up and claim their party?"

I'm a Registered Republican, and have been for 10 years or so. For the most part I disagree with Democrats, and to a fair amount I disagree with the GOP. I abhor big gov't but I don't see that changing with any party. I would have voted Libertarian in the last election but knew they had no chance of defeating Obama, so instead I voted for McCain.

I mean what do you want me to say? lol

7/27/2009 1:12:16 PM

http://gawker.com/5323938/meet-crazy-eileen-the-birther

Quote :

"Last month, Republican Representative Mike Castle was confronted by a woman demanding proof that Barack Obama is a citizen. The lady has been identified, and she is, of course, nicknamed "Crazy Eileen." Apparently she calls into a local talk radio station all the time. In this clip, she is talking about aliens. Also she predicts Armageddon in 95 years. She repeatedly has called Obama "the antichrist" on the airwaves, and "her phone calls have turned to faxes and threats," according to Morris. "I have actually talked to an angel who came down in human form," she said during the Jan. 1 show. "We will have alien contact in October of this year, in the southwestern USA." And this is the woman the crowed applauded. She's been banned from calling into local right-wing talk radio for her nuttiness. (Personally, we'd rather track down the guy who shouts "YEEAAAGH." Was it "Macho Man" Randy Savage?)"

7/27/2009 5:36:34 PM

Quote :

"(Personally, we'd rather track down the guy who shouts "YEEAAAGH." Was it "Macho Man" Randy Savage?)""

ummm, Howard Dean?

7/27/2009 7:31:41 PM

Obama is not a secret Muslim. No self-respecting secret Muslim would have a clean shaven face. Its too much disprect to Allah.

Now if he grows some massive beard, I might change my opinion.

7/27/2009 7:41:16 PM

I thought that Mohammed himself, or if not him, high Muslim clerics, have said that it is acceptable to lie, if it serves the greater good of spreading Islam.

Seems to me like keeping shaved is just a form of lying. In Obama's case, the ends would justify the means!

---

just remembered where I heard that. In the discussions of the Iran elections, an Iranian expert said that it is common practice, or at least accepted practice, among high Muslim clerics to lie to the public if they think it is for the greater good. In the context of the elections, the Ayatollah could use this excuse to ratify the bogus elections if he feels that Ahmadinejad should be the winner for the sake of Islam.

[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 7:47 PM. Reason : .]

7/27/2009 7:44:26 PM

I guess someone has said it was acceptable since some of the terrorists in 9/11 and the British subway plot "blended in" and kept clean shaven, but I know from some devout Muslim friends of mine that (this is how I understand it) they're supposed to have facial hair once they're old enough

7/27/2009 7:46:19 PM

AHAHAAAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAH

Also, the House passed a bill yesterday stating that Obama was born in Hawaii 378-0. Man, are those people suckers or what?
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll647.xml

7/28/2009 7:18:58 AM

Quote :

"Awesome, we now have US senators supporting this crackpot bullshit."

It's Jim Inhofe. You shouldn't be that surprised.

7/28/2009 7:59:20 AM

So do we not have a single "Birther" on TWW? The Brickyard on PackPride has a dozen or so of them and those threads have been the most entertaining reads there in years.

7/28/2009 8:24:34 AM

doesn't seem to be even a shred of evidence, so I doubt it

odd that didn't seem to matter with the 9/11 conspiracy movement

7/28/2009 9:08:44 AM

Quote :

"I thought that Mohammed himself, or if not him, high Muslim clerics, have said that it is acceptable to lie, if it serves the greater good of spreading Islam."

you're thinking of the talmud

7/28/2009 9:40:04 AM

Here's the original birther thread, with plenty of conservative soap box posters affirming they think it is Serious Business.
/message_topic.aspx?topic=545664

7/28/2009 9:51:40 AM

Some important ones from that thread:
SwtJewelBird

Quote :

"The birth certificate is a fake... A Democratic Homeland Security trained operative out-west has already admitted to creating a forgery for the website. Read Berg's website, he explains this."

aaronburro

Quote :

"I'd be interested in knowing from where the youtube guy gets the "template" certificate. It is a little convenient that the place and time of birth are identical, but even then, all of that depends on the how the "template" originated."

Quote :

"It's not just that he lived there for a couple years. He had to be an Indonesian citizen in order to go to their schools. He very much went to their schools, so it only logically follows that was an Indonesian citizen. I know, fuck that whole Constitution thing, it gets in the way too much, right?"

Quote :

"btw, the judge in PA did NOT rule that Obama was a natural born citizen. He ruled that the PA AG had no legal grounds to bring the case. In short, the judge didn't give a shit about the Constitution, either"

redwop

Quote :

"McCain was born in Panama Canal Zone which was occupied by the United States at the time due to the Panama Canal so it is a non issue. I am pretty sure we did not occupy any territory in Kenya."

Quote :

"I am not running for president so it does not really matter if I was born in Kenya "

"Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists" http://bit.ly/C4qUD Ha, "reality." Pshht!

7/28/2009 11:48:14 AM

I thought this 1961 newspaper announcement (from the Honolulu Advertiser). . .



. . .pretty much killed the Obama's not from around here argument. I guess I'm wrong?

In any event, forget the birth certificate. Could we just see Obama's college transcripts? Some of his scholarly work, maybe?

[Edited on July 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM. Reason : No?]

7/28/2009 1:35:48 PM

Quote :

"Also, the House passed a bill yesterday stating that Obama was born in Hawaii 378-0. Man, are those people suckers or what? http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll647.xml"

BILL TITLE: Recognizing and celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State

DOES NOT COMPUTE

7/28/2009 1:54:23 PM

^ http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr111-593

Quote :

"HRES 593 EH H. Res. 593 In the House of Representatives, U. S., July 27, 2009. Whereas August 21, 2009, marks the 50th Anniversary of President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s signing of Proclamation 3309, which admitted Hawaii into the Union in compliance with the Hawaii Admission Act, enacted by the United States Congress on March 18, 1959; Whereas Hawaii is ‘a place like no other, with a people like no other’ and bridges the mainland United States to the Asia-Pacific region; Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961;"

7/28/2009 1:58:17 PM

Oh, by the way, Happy 48th Mr. President.

7/28/2009 2:27:08 PM

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907280051

Bill O'Reilly rips on birthers.

7/29/2009 2:07:35 AM

bad news for conspiracy theorists when Bill OReilly won't even give you play.

7/29/2009 2:38:24 AM

It's been said, but...

If you are a conservative, or have any interest in seeing the GOP recover in the near future, then you will call this issue like it is -that being "bullshit" - and move on. Keeping this nonsense alive just makes the GOP look ridiculous.

That is all.

7/29/2009 8:19:26 AM

wouldn't surprise me if some 4chan liberals are behind this "push" I keep hearing about to try and smear the GOP. I cant even think of one person who buys this bullshit idea

7/29/2009 9:08:22 AM

Quote :

"I cant even think of one person who buys this bullshit idea"

SwtJewelBird

aaronburro

redwop

7/29/2009 9:13:01 AM

^ don't forget: My Dad

and most of the rest of the members of his redneck S.C. church

7/29/2009 1:39:01 PM

also the entire Brickyard forum of Packpride

7/29/2009 4:17:54 PM

set em up

7/29/2009 4:28:03 PM