spam != dissent

people can dissent without shouting and crying. That's not even dissent really.

8/10/2009 6:50:29 PM

i know. because dissent can't be passionate, either

look, if the shoe were on the other foot and it were dubya doing something like this, you would be giving him whatfor. And you know it.

8/10/2009 6:53:13 PM

passionate dissent != spam

Or do you read every email you get from a pharmacy trying to sell you viagra and oxycontin?

8/10/2009 6:54:11 PM

it;s ok, though, to suppress speech in the name of spam, though, right?

8/10/2009 6:55:12 PM

Is it okay for me to flood your inbox with spam? Is it okay for me to pic-bomb this thread? Can I post 1000 goatses in a row, followed by 300 tubgirls? That would surely be helpful to the discussion, right?

8/10/2009 7:02:16 PM

knock yourself out. You just won't find me advocating that the government prevent you from doing so. But, sure, people are gonna fire off tubgirl in the webchats. sure

8/10/2009 7:03:59 PM

Quote :

"I also think the president has managed through this drama to do one thing that I never imagined would be done at this point and that is unite the Republican Party. You've got economic Republicans; libertarians; the social right--social conservatives--all together in opposition to this big formless blob of a thing called the 'health care that's coming that you're not going to like.' So, that's been extraordinary to me."

Considering over 70% of Americans are in favor of a public health care option and over 50% of Republicans are in favor of one, I don't know how accurate I would consider that.

8/10/2009 7:05:03 PM

^^So you see the point then? If the tea-baggers are like a tubgirl pic bomb, then you acknowledge that are not providing a productive mechanism to the town hall meetings?

And no one has yet advocated the government preventing people from doing this. They are advocating individual congress people in their individual town hall meetings take steps to prevent the tub-girl pic bombing of what they hope to be rational threads discussions.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 7:06:16 PM

^^ i love rectally derived numbers. they are the shit!

^ for one, you have yet to show that tea-baggers are anything similar to tubgirl. Which is kind of key to your assertion that said spammers should have the hammer dropped on them in any future discourse. But, again, if dubya were the one doing this, you'd be pitching a shit-fit. Since it supports the Messiah, though, you are all for it.

8/10/2009 7:10:58 PM

The town hall is on LIVE right now, 7:24pm. This is the message I get when I call 1-800-849-0632 to ask my question:

"Thanks for calling the Triangle TV live program call in line. There is no live program on at this time. However, to get in touch with Congressman David Price, please call his area offices... in Raleigh 789-8771."

Thanks for giving me a chance to ask my question. This fucker has stifled our ability to speak to him first by not holding the face to face town hall, and now by not allowing you to even leave a message with your question.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 7:25 PM. Reason : typo]

8/10/2009 7:25:02 PM

he knew you were gonna spam before you called. so he cut you off. sorry, man, free speech has its limits, didn't you know?

btw, did you call his office? maybe they are only taking questions through that line. I'm just sayin...

8/10/2009 7:30:15 PM

Quote :

"^ for one, you have yet to show that tea-baggers are anything similar to tubgirl. Which is kind of key to your assertion that said spammers should have the hammer dropped on them in any future discourse. But, again, if dubya were the one doing this, you'd be pitching a shit-fit. Since it supports the Messiah, though, you are all for it. "

It's intuitively obvious how they are like tubgirl, but i'll spell it out for you. When these people show their faces and shout their chants at a venue designed to discuss the issue, they literally are drowning out people there who they may have had an actual chance to sway to their side, as well as drowning out people who may have a contributory remark to make. This is not dissimilar from tubgirl pic bombs that any tdubber is very familiar with, which instantly will shut a thread down until the picture is removed (or a new page is made), because people just don't want to have to put up with bullshit.

So while it may legally be these peoples' right to be assholes, they shouldn't complain that they aren't being listened to, because they themselves aren't giving anyone a chance to listen to them (or giving reasonable people on their side a chance to speak even).

And it is pretty much their goal anyway to silence discussion on this issue. David Price is playing in to their hands. The last thing the tea-baggers want is for actual facts to come out.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 7:38 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 7:36:26 PM

Quote :

" btw, did you call his office? maybe they are only taking questions through that line. I'm just sayin..."

Just called the Raleigh office number given to me by the first message:
"The number you have reached, 919-789-8771 has been disconnected. For directory assistance you may dial 411..."

8/10/2009 7:39:34 PM

nope. fail. you somehow have this notion that these people are being douches for the sake of being douches. Maybe, just maybe this is how they really feel. But, then again, I'm not the one advocating that they not be heard.

8/10/2009 7:39:59 PM

Quote :

"When these people show their faces and shout their chants at a venue designed to discuss the issue, they literally are drowning out people there who they may have had an actual chance to sway to their side, as well as drowning out people who may have a contributory remark to make."

I was in the office of a senator a few weeks ago talking to that senator's senior assistant. Looking at the tally sheet the assistant had, the overwhelming majority of calls on the health care issue were against the current (still nebulous) plan. When I say overwhelming, the right half of a sheet of paper was blanketed by tick marks and there were maybe 15 in the left. This particular senator was from a moderate to left-leaning state and will probably still vote for the bill.

People are shouting because their 'representatives' aren't listening. They're organized? So what? The Sons of Liberty were organized, Students for a Democratic Society were organized, Code Pink is organized, and well they should all be. The people have the right to "peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Town hall meetings are places for congressmen and women to shut up and listen to their constituents, not run their yaps about how great they are.

8/10/2009 7:48:26 PM

Quote :

"nope. fail. you somehow have this notion that these people are being douches for the sake of being douches. Maybe, just maybe this is how they really feel. But, then again, I'm not the one advocating that they not be heard. "

Seems like someone is not up on their facts (not surprising).

The town hall protests are being organized by some of the same people who orchestrated the john kerry "swift boating." They have sent out memos telling people to be obnoxious, and their goal should be to "rattle" the politicians. Combine this with spreading disinformation about government "death panels," and communism, you can see they are going for a certain effect.

Did you seriously think these were spontaneous protesters? haha

Quote :

"People are shouting because their 'representatives' aren't listening. They're organized? So what? The Sons of Liberty were organized, Students for a Democratic Society were organized, Code Pink is organized, and well they should all be. The people have the right to "peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." "

If people were making reasonable points, then I'd say you have a point. But when people are shouting that they don't want the government to kill their grandparents, then why should they be listened to? I'm glad, in this case, that the representatives aren't listening to people who subscribe to Palin-logic.



[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 7:50:31 PM

Quote :

"Did you seriously think these were spontaneous protesters? haha"

I'm certainly not being paid or organized by any political party and I'm fucking pissed. People are pissed. These assholes aren't in office to do what they want, they're in there to represent their district.

8/10/2009 7:52:46 PM

oh no! people are organizing protests! where were you during MoveOn.org's spamming complaining? Where were you complaining with Cindy Sheehan? But, someone dares speak out against your beloved Saviour, and all of a sudden it aint right

^^ I know, how dare the gov't have to listen to DISSENT of any sort. it's just not right!!!

8/10/2009 7:53:43 PM

^^ what are you pissed about?

^ so i take it you support westboro baptist's tactic of drowning out the funerals of dead marines?

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 7:54 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 7:53:51 PM

Quote :

"Did you seriously think these were spontaneous protesters?"

Does organizing make their opinions any less valid?

Where the fuck did this idea come from that this was a random scientific survey and that only sporadic protests of people randomly gathered in one location counted?

8/10/2009 7:54:16 PM

^ i never implied organizing made their complaints less valid. I was responding to burro's statement that they aren't just there to be douches. Their organizers have instructed them to be douches, was the point.

8/10/2009 7:55:38 PM

yes. ALL of them are douches. right.
hey, I'll post one email and that will prove something! can I post some birther emails, too, while we are at it? Will that suddenly make Obama a Kenyan, too?

8/10/2009 7:56:55 PM

^ because that's what I said.

That's grade-A tea-bagger logic there burro, congrats.

8/10/2009 7:59:02 PM

well, that's what you seem to be saying. Every single person who is unhappy and angry has been set up by the organizers. So, we should stop listening to any thing they have to say. You could work for the ministry of Truth, there, morontard

8/10/2009 8:05:07 PM

^ clearly not everyone who is opposed to it is a douche. There is no need to be angry though, especially when you refuse to elucidate on exactly why you're angry.

But I guess when you are listening to deceptive nutjobs that convinced you government death squads are going to knock on your door, anger is your only option.

8/10/2009 8:11:41 PM

yes. every single one of them listens to that, though. so, we shouldn't listen to any dissent.

8/10/2009 8:15:05 PM

It's hilarious that people who voted in a community organizer are against communities organizing when it comes to their pet issues. Freedom of speech only belongs on the left side of the aisle, people!

What is even funnier (and tragic) is that a white democrat teamster attacked a black man who was passing out protest flags, and yet nothing is mentioned nationally. Check out the embeded youtube video.

http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/22907/t/Democrat-Union-Thugs-beat--Black-Protester--Carnahan-Town-Ha.html

Quote :

""There are limits to free speech. Sometimes, they come in the form of someone telling you to shut the fuck up and talking over your ass until you do.""

Fat bitch that got called the fuck out says what?

8/10/2009 8:31:34 PM

well, that stupid black guy should have been pulling for the right side. serves him right. how dare he support a conservative idea. doesn't he know who freed him?

8/10/2009 8:34:43 PM

^^^ we don't have a chance to listen to dissent, because the nutjobs are drowning everyone else out. That is what people are saying.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:36 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 8:36:23 PM

yes. because none of the people who are angry are expressing dissent.

8/10/2009 8:39:32 PM

As the attack shows, it doesn't fit the media mantra that liberals are level headed and rational whereas those who are against Obama's health care are knuckle dragging rightwingers looking for fights.

I don't know what moron means by nutjobs, but if he means the dissenters, well then I guess the majority of the people in this country are nutjobs because the latest polls, including this one from Rasmussen, shows a continual rising tide of dissent for national health care.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/toplines/pt_survey_toplines/august_2009/toplines_fear_gov_t_or_insurance_companies_august_7_8_2009

8/10/2009 8:42:47 PM

you can't trust polls. you know that

8/10/2009 8:46:00 PM

^^^ not at the town halls, they are not. At least, not the once that have been saucy enough to hit the media.

^^ that is an interesting poll, but why do they fear the government? If it's because they are listening to nutjob spreading fear about government death squads and death panels, then who cares? They are irrational and irrelevant to the discourse.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:50 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 8:47:55 PM

it must be wonderful living in your fantasy world

8/10/2009 8:50:02 PM

^ i'm curious, if you were at a town hall, what would your complaints be?

8/10/2009 8:51:41 PM

my complaints would be as follows:

1) if it's so great, why don't congressmen have to be on the plan
2) why aren't we tackling tort
3) why are we perpetuating the problems caused by insurance?
4) where in the Constitution does it allow for the gov't to fuck with healthcare?

8/10/2009 8:56:03 PM

^^^^

LOL it isn't the fear that private coverage is going to be dropped, or that costs are going to go up while quality of care goes down, or that income taxes are going to skyrocket as a result, or the added strain to the national debt that this program will add to our already burdened entitlement system, or that it will drive insurance companies out of business leaving the government with a health care monopoly, or that the potential fate of my own personal health and welfare will fall into the hands of a non-caring pencil pushing bureaucrat...no sir, it can't be any of those reasons.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:57 PM. Reason : carrots]

8/10/2009 8:56:15 PM

Oh, burro would probably lead in with some birther shit.

I mean, come on, it's serious business.

8/10/2009 8:56:40 PM

haha, maybe. Gotta throw em off guard. THen I would rip my shirt off to display a massive tattoo of sarah palin, right?

8/10/2009 8:58:21 PM

Quote :

"LOL it isn't the fear that private coverage is going to be dropped"

Dropped by whom? You will still have the option to private coverage, and I don't think anyone would expect an employer to stick with a more expensive plan, if they can save money with a cheaper plan.

Quote :

" or that costs are going to go up while quality of care goes down,"

Costs have already been going up. Quality of care is a nebulous concept to begin with, but the mere existence of a government option would have no bearing on quality of care, because the care providers are going to remain the same. THey will have more revenue, if anything, if any portion of the uninsured 50 million, or underinsured N-million can visit their dr. easier.

Quote :

"or that income taxes are going to skyrocket as a result"

"skyrocket"? Is this language that you have read on a tea-bagger website? But it's funny that you complain about taxes in this breath...

Quote :

"or the added strain to the national debt that this program will add to our already burdened entitlement system"

... while complaining about the deficit in this one. You could have a deity of conservative thought running the country now, and it would be impossible to eliminate the debt and deficit and cut taxes while simultaneously maintaing the competitiveness of America in the world. You can't both complain about taxes AND the debt. And where were these mass protests when Bush was increasing the debt by record levels? Somehow I don't believe the concern for the debt is that genuine.

Quote :

"or that it will drive insurance companies out of business leaving the government with a health care monopoly"

This could be a concern, but there is no reasonable evidence this is going to happen. The postal service doesn't have a monopoly on sending packages, does it? Private lenders were still prominent and profitable despite Freddie/Fannie. PBS hasn't pushed out NBC, ABC, or Fox News.

There is actually no precedent of GSEs or GCs pushing out private businesses, that I could find. What makes you think this is a likely possibility?

Quote :

"or that the potential fate of my own personal health and welfare will fall into the hands of a non-caring pencil pushing bureaucrat...no sir, it can't be any of those reasons. "

Umm... if you have insurance, this is the case now.


Maybe David Price et al would be able to address these concerns, if certain groups weren't there shutting everyone else up...?

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 9:20 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 9:16:44 PM

Quote :

"There is actually no precedent of GSEs or GCs pushing out private businesses, that I could find. What makes you think this is a likely possibility?"

How many people do you know that don't take Medicare? oh, right... shit, the gov;t mandated they take it, too. nice!

8/10/2009 9:21:03 PM

Quote :

"it will drive insurance companies out of business leaving the government with a health care monopoly"

This hasn't happened in other countries that use a mix of public and private health care, why would it happen in the States?

8/10/2009 10:27:41 PM

maybe because Medicare has no competition?

8/10/2009 11:09:39 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/10/democrats.poll/
Poll: Democrats lose support, but GOP sees no benefit

Quote :

"A national poll released Monday indicates the Democratic Party is becoming less popular with voters but suggests that Republicans haven't been able to capitalize on the Democrats' downturn."

8/10/2009 11:39:39 PM

^^ Seems that currently there are plenty of insurance companies besides Medicare/Medicaid.

8/11/2009 4:36:05 AM

and none of them compete in the 65+ market. durrrr

8/11/2009 6:51:13 AM

did you miss the last five years where private insurance companies got in on the medicare market in a big way (with not so great results)?

8/11/2009 7:39:44 AM

did you miss the part where there are still no primary insurance plans in the private sector for the 65+ crowd?

8/11/2009 8:04:54 PM

Ha-ha, you dumbasses--Obama agrees with me:

White House Disputes Pelosi Contention that Town Hall Protests are "Un-American"

Quote :

"The White House disagreed this afternoon with the contention by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, that the disruptions at town hall meetings are 'un-American,' as the Democratic congressional leaders contended in a USA Today op-ed this morning. 'I think there's actually a pretty long tradition of people shouting at politicians in America,' White House deputy press secretary Bill Burton told reporters on Air Force One when asked about the comments. "The President thinks that if people want to come and have a spirited debate about health care, a real vigorous conversation about it, that's a part of the American tradition and he encourages that, because people do have questions and concerns ...And so if people want to come and have their concerns and their questions answered, the President thinks that's important."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/white-house-disputes-pelosi-contention-that-town-hall-protests-are-un-american.html



In the name of Ransom Stoddard, I say 'Yes!'

--Dutton Peabody, The Shinbone Star

8/11/2009 9:48:44 PM

That's the second time you've attempted to make that joke and it is the second time it has failed.

8/11/2009 9:51:18 PM