2

8/17/2009 1:00:18 PM

Did both of you get fired, or just you? I think I would have refused to drive the vehicle back and conviently lost the keys and gotten a friend to drive me back.

8/17/2009 1:12:46 PM

no no no, i think i mentioned it earlier

he has permission to use the truck after we get to the hotel to go to dinner/bank/etc...as long as its not an unreasonable distance since the company pays for gas. i mean we're stuck in a town we know nothing about most of the time so they cant reasonably expect us to never leave the hotel.

the issue is that a) he did so without telling me first b) did 3hrs worth of driving apparently and c) in the morning claimed to have only done 30min worth to me
when they brought me in to terminate me and told me i was absolutely shocked and the dick said he didnt believe i wasn't aware the whole time

and no he didnt get fired. in fact, today i found out they gave him a promotion to my position. I MEAN WTF???

[Edited on August 17, 2009 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ^^^]

[Edited on August 17, 2009 at 1:31 PM. Reason : f]

8/17/2009 1:30:43 PM

i should probably just print this thread when the person from unemployment calls so i can remember everything but i just remembered something else pretty huge

one of the warning lights came on while on our way to the job site friday morning before they told me to come back so i made an appt with a ford dealer in Columbia to get it fixed. we looked up the code in the manual and its one of those "do not drive more than xx miles before getting it fixed or the engine will be damaged" (we ended up going over mileage that bc they said do not get it fixed and drive back immediately). so there again we have ANOTHER reason i still would not be on the job site in Columbia because i was doing exactly what a responsible worker would be doing.

8/17/2009 1:43:25 PM

if an employee of mine held up a job because they refused to put in a little overtime it would not go over well with me either, so I can understand their point

8/17/2009 2:08:55 PM

are you being sarcastic or did you just miss the part where i said we work 70hrs a week? 7 days a week, 3 weeks in a row. i don't think it unreasonable to stop work when i wouldnt get paid anymore at that point.

8/17/2009 2:35:35 PM

It sounds like they did you a favor by firing you.

8/17/2009 2:46:25 PM

Quote :

"if an employee of mine held up a job because they refused to put in a little overtime it would not go over well with me either"

that's what I'm thinking, especially considering how losing the boat on a highway usually indicates you didn't bother to tie it down correctly before leaving.

8/17/2009 3:01:21 PM

Contact Carruthers and Roth: (336) 379-8651. They do a free consultation over the phone and will be able to tell you today if you have a case or not.

8/17/2009 3:31:40 PM

im actually not being sarcastic. I work those kinds of hours too and sometimes ask my guys to as well. if they had the reply you did my response would be, "well don't you have a phone, I need to be a part of that decision"

don't know that I would fire someone though, if they had been warned about insubordination in the past though they would be gone for sure. I've got a short fuse for that.

but I don't know the culture of your company, just offering an observation

8/17/2009 3:56:00 PM

Quote :

"Also its important that they explained I'm not getting fired because I got lost, it's because I got lost and then didn't continue all the way to Columbia still. And they explicitly stated that employees will just have to "switch off not getting paid to even it out"."

A) You are hourly.
B) It sounds like they are asking you to work off the clock.

Now take a similar scenario where a person works at Wal-Mart as a stockman. Say this person gets distracted by some other task that, as a result, does not allow them to finish their stocking on time. The manager insists that they must clock out, but continue working until the task is done. If not, they get fired.

This regularly causes a shit-storm. I really hope you got some email / paperwork from this manager stating you were fired for what boils down to you not working off the clock.

8/17/2009 4:30:01 PM

talking about switching drivers, you don't have to pay passengers

8/17/2009 4:53:43 PM

Quote :

" that's what I'm thinking, especially considering how losing the boat on a highway usually indicates you didn't bother to tie it down correctly before leaving."

1) i didnt put the boat on the trailer, only put it on the hitch
2) both the fleet manager and the supervisor in question saw how the boat was before we left
3) i told them before we left the ties didnt look strong enough and i might need more

but this is a moot point because he doesnt blame me for the boat thing, actually that seems to be the one credit he gave me, lol

Quote :

"It sounds like they did you a favor by firing you."

the more and more i think about it, im starting to think that too provided i can get unemployment, whether its right away or by appeal remains to be seen

Quote :

"Now take a similar scenario where a person works at Wal-Mart as a stockman. Say this person gets distracted by some other task that, as a result, does not allow them to finish their stocking on time. The manager insists that they must clock out, but continue working until the task is done. If not, they get fired."

Actually in this case it would be like another manager saying "start stocking the entire store on Monday" and spending a full workday working on it, maybe knocking over a box that takes an hour to cleanup and some other things that weren't your fault. Then getting fired Tuesday morning by another manager when the entire store hasn't been stocked which wouldn't have been likely anyway. This other manager is under the impression you were to stay as long as it took to get the job done even if you didnt get paid for some of it.

[Edited on August 17, 2009 at 5:26 PM. Reason : Tuesday]

8/17/2009 5:24:49 PM

and thats not even really the point again, you guys need to remember theres no precedent for what the manager says should have happened. its never been done, not by me, not by anyone else in my department. our understanding by talking with our supervisors at the time when they changed the policy was that stopping at 5 when long travel was involved was allowable, therefore not insubordination. but this guy has no knowledge of those conversations so he expects something different apparently.

the ONLY way i would have made that drive and taken the pay hit is if either manager had said "get to Columbia by Thursday night" or "get to Columbia by 8:00am Friday"

lol im gonna quit posting cause i feel like im just going in circles and circles

ill just leave it that at this point having talked to as many people as i have, i feel like ive got them beat should they challenge my unemployment claim

8/17/2009 5:40:00 PM

oh also my mom clicked "like" on facebook when my status update was how shocked i was i just got fired

FML

8/17/2009 5:47:28 PM

Thought you were gonna call the DOL today? Do it as soon as possible!

8/17/2009 7:18:29 PM

not enough hours in the day for this unemployed man! lol

actually i did a ton of stuff
went to pick up some other stuff from the office/info about benefits from HR
went to unemployment office
faxed some stuff for law school apps
in the middle of a move so i did some packing and moved a carload of boxes from Fuquay to Raleigh
lunch
now im babysitting my 10 week old pup till my gf gets off work in about 10 and then ill head to the gym

8/17/2009 7:30:15 PM

Quote :

"you guys need to remember theres no precedent for what the manager says should have happened. its never been done, not by me, not by anyone else in my department."

we're in a recession, yet you and your coworkers decided you were going to show the company who's boss by quitting early enough that you could get to the hotel without having to put in any unpaid hours. for that, you're now facing the very real possibility of not being eligible for unemployment. It's a shitty situation, but you should have read between the lines when your company decided not to pay for passenger time as a message that your company was trying to cut personnel costs to weather the recession. it sounds like the new manager got brought in over top of everyone else because your previous managers weren't getting the real message either. if the people aren't letting you cut their hours, then you cut the people.

I still don't understand how you lost a boat. all you need is one ratchet strap and the front chain.

8/17/2009 9:32:39 PM

yeah i really slacked off when i worked those other 9.25 hours that day with one 20 min break, thank you sir for opening my eyes

also i still dont understand how you can't read that i didn't touch the boat or the straps, our fleet manager did. i said are we good to go and they (my other coworker and him) said yes and i picked up the trailer and put it on the hitch and away we went. oh also the tire was flat so another new employee put so much air in the tires that the trailer was literally bouncing on the highway, we had to let air out twice.

and this gem...

Quote :

"but you should have read between the lines when your company decided not to pay for passenger time as a message that your company was trying to cut personnel costs to weather the recession."

thats exactly why we stopped working 12 hours days and driving till 8 or 9pm saving them a ton on overtime

8/17/2009 10:58:23 PM

you weren't saving them shit. you were doing 10 hours of work in a 12 hour day, and now you're doing 6 hours of work in an 8 hour day. they wanted you to do 10 hours of work in a 12 hour day and only charge them for 10. Jesus, if you're that fucking stupid, then it's no wonder they fired you.

8/18/2009 8:56:15 AM

here is why i can see them being mad:
-regardless of who's job it is YOU, the driver, should always check your load before you head out
-in my eyes if you waste time because you get lost you should put in the extra effort to make up for it. you may not have to but if you don't it shows that you are only going to do the minimum that you are told.
-i don't know anything about you so the conclusion may be unfair, but the actions described in the story make you sound like the type of employee who is going to only do their job that they are told and never be proactive about doing things that they should do even though they weren't spelled out for them. i've promoted people ahead of "better" employees because the "better" employee wasn't very proactive.

8/18/2009 9:44:27 AM

Quote :

"-regardless of who's job it is YOU, the driver, should always check your load before you head out"

Definitely agree with this...I learned the hard way when I offered to back a neighbor's trailer in the water. He told me it was all hooked up and ready to go. I hopped in the truck, started driving towards the ramp, and then the trailer popped off and smacked the back of the truck. Oh well, it was his tailgate that got fucked up. I still check every time just to be safe. The trailer was probably only a few hundred pounds by itself. Could have been a real disaster if the 2500 lb boat was on the trailer.

Don't trust anybody else's judgment when it comes to towing. Check it yourself.

[Edited on August 18, 2009 at 10:02 AM. Reason : l]

8/18/2009 10:01:28 AM

guys, i think you're posting arguments i'm not even trying to get involved with. we've moved past whether they can fire me for this. also I wasn't the driver when the boat fell off. the coworker who had physically checked the straps was.

the question is did i disobey a DIRECT order to get to Columbia that night. that's what i was fired for. NOT THE BOAT. NOT THE ACT OF GETTING LOST. NOT MY COWORKER'S ACTIONS. DIRECT INSUBORDINATION. not "hey we worked a full day just like everyone in the office does and had some setbacks, let's call it a day and get ready for tomorrow." they are claiming i went something like "fuck this company, i'm not going to go that far tonight. i refuse to." And I wasn't told to be in Columbia by Thursday night in the first place! Stopping at 5 is as normal to me as it is to them in the office, I doubt they stay till 8 or 9pm.

and i think you're wrong that all i do is the bare minimum but even if i do the bare minimum, that's not direct insubordination. that's ALL i want to prove at this point.

i see it boiling down to this, i was never given orders to be in Columbia thursday night, although i did work from 7:45am-5pm towards progress of that goal. maybe i didnt have my coworker and i work MORE, for FREE, but we did work the same amount as we do everyday and we've had similar days where setbacks happened and took time to take care of.

you guys aren't privy to the shit that happens in this company but this wasn't like a freak day that never happens. This shit happens all the time, people get lost, equipment gets broken, etc...so they can fire the whole department if they want and train new people but if you're going to expect differently or that we'll make up the work lost (which has NEVER been an offense before) then maybe they should have told us that first. then fire us for direct insubordination when it doesn't happen.

8/18/2009 10:13:47 AM

Quote :

"not "hey we worked a full day just like everyone in the office does and had some setbacks, let's call it a day and get ready for tomorrow." they are claiming i went something like "fuck this company, i'm not going to go that far tonight. i refuse to." "

those two statements sound practically identical in your thread. besides, your boss gave you all day to get to a destination 3.5 hours away, and you didn't even make it halfway there. did you bother to wake up 2 hours early to get to the job site at a normal time? no, you got out of the hotel at 8 and carried on like you had all the time in the world to get to the job site. if there were clients in Columbia waiting on you, that doesn't look good at all for the company.

I'm still at a loss for how someone who leaves the hotel at 8 and knocks off in time to be back at the hotel by 5 can claim to work 70 hours a week.

8/18/2009 10:49:46 AM

Quote :

"the question is did i disobey a DIRECT order to get to Columbia that night. that's what i was fired for. NOT THE BOAT. NOT THE ACT OF GETTING LOST. NOT MY COWORKER'S ACTIONS. DIRECT INSUBORDINATION."

there's the reason they put on the termination form, and there's the reasons they walk down the hall to HR to get the form

8/18/2009 10:56:02 AM

^^ if you can't do simple math i can't help you either, 7 days a week is 63 right there plus an hour of paperwork or timesheet/expenses on average is your other 7

like i said, you don't know how the company works so this whole "you wasted a whole day doing nothing" is just ignorant because the supervisor was working with us to get prepared to leave in the morning and then it was their idea to come backwards to fix the boat. we could have fixed that boat in columbia, just needed a home depot. and clients are not waiting for us at sites.

Quote :

" there's the reason they put on the termination form, and there's the reasons they walk down the hall to HR to get the form"

and theres the reason they'll put when they fight my unemployment claim which is the only discussion im really interested in but you two just keep on telling me how they were right to fire me, even if i agree, it's not the reason they're going to list. if they put my performance was not up to par for his new expectations as manager, that would be A-ok with me. this is not the case.

8/18/2009 11:12:36 AM

i'm just offering a different perspective and the arguments you are going to face when they fight unemployment, i don't really care. good luck with everything.

8/18/2009 11:14:59 AM

did your coworker lie and blame shit on you?

8/18/2009 11:49:23 AM

It really sucks... From what I read, though, it looks like the new manager was saying wait until 7am Friday, the fleet manager said go now at 3pm. You guys left but got lost. Unfortunately, you didn't call and ask if it was cool to get a hotel since you were lost, or to keep going.

The next day, instead of probably being only 1.5hrs away and leaving at 7am, you're still 3hrs away and leaving at 8am. Boat should have been at the site by 8:30, not 11am. I'm hoping the co-worker wasn't a douche like "Sure, new manager, we can work until 6:30 driving! You're so awesome and new! *starry eyes*".

It sucks a lot, and it's shitty of the new manager to fire you, but like ^ I'm thinking the co-worker lied, maybe even called the manager? And you got fired for a first time offense. But, as for getting unemployment, I'm just not sure. Call the DOL soon! You *may* have a case you haven't even considered. So tell them everything, make sure you have as much paperwork as possible.

8/18/2009 12:04:30 PM

it takes you an hour to fill out your timesheet and expense reports, and you never take lunch? you probably should have gotten fired for fraud too.

you can bitch at me all you want, but apparently your superviser and me are seeing things from the same perspective.

8/18/2009 12:52:25 PM

dude get the fuck out of my thread im tired of your assumptions, it makes you look downright retarded

tell me what you do for a living and ill find something you're not doing right

YES it absolutely takes an hour or more to do the paperwork we have to do everyday, it includes technical designs of civil infrastructure, you know, those thing that require thousands of measurements and inspecting to make sure everything is right and noone gets killed

and if i eat my food in 15 min getting drive thru or getting it to go and eat it on the way somewhere, YEAH i rarely take a lunch BREAK for 30 min, get the fuck out

or please tell me where you work so i can apply for a job that involves being on TWW and judging others

8/18/2009 1:20:17 PM

and you and the new manager may see things the same way and thats fine, you both sound like douchebags and ive been talking with both of you for less than a week

but so why am i getting written statements that i was doing my job from my other supervisors

just because you fire someone doesn't mean i wasn't a good worker, it just means they fired a good worker over one incident

8/18/2009 1:25:45 PM

I haven't read every word in this thread but I have skimmed most of it, and I haven't seen any mention of the fact that sometimes management hires new middle-management and tells them to come in and start swinging the axe. At my last job they ended up hiring this one manager who had a reputation for coming in and firing somebody in his first week.

Sometimes you just get fired because of the bigger picture of office politics. It might not have anything to do with you or your performance. It sucks, but yeah, unemployment does wonders in these situations.

8/18/2009 2:23:49 PM

thanks, i never thought I'd see one of The Bills from "Office Space" with my own eyes but that appears to be what this guy is

i suppose it didnt help i was the highest paid (for no good reason i guess according to pooljobs and eluesis)

8/18/2009 3:20:19 PM

The Bobs, you mean.

8/18/2009 3:55:42 PM

i screwed up, so fire me

8/18/2009 4:36:29 PM

ha ha, wow i just got an interesting phone call from a former coworker

because of me they have entirely rehauled the timesheet, per diem, and travel policy practically overnight.

covering their asses much...

and he told me a horror story about himself which i didnt know beforehand
apparently when he worked in a different department they told him if he walked out of the office without quitting they would fire him so he resigned, the day after he got his letter about unemployment they called him up and offered to rehire him for 2.50/hr less than what he made and he had to accept or he'd lose the unemployment as well

[Edited on August 18, 2009 at 5:21 PM. Reason : f]

8/18/2009 5:13:56 PM

Quote :

"if an employee of mine held up a job because they refused to put in a little overtime it would not go over well with me either, so I can understand their point "

Maybe I misread everything, but it sounds to me like he's saying if they go into overtime, one of them stops being paid. Now, putting in a few extra hours overtime to get the job done, sure, anyone should reasonably do that, hell most people would do it even if they were getting paid regular time instead of time and a half. But the moment you stop paying me is the moment I reasonably stop working, period. If you want me to do agreed upon work, you will pay me agreed upon wages, anything outside of that original agreement requires a separate written and signed agreement. I'm not one of those assholes that puts their headphones in at 5:00 and "sorry, I can't talk about work stuff, I'm off the clock" but I sure as hell wouldn't drive an extra hour or two hours off the clock anymore than my employer would pay me an extra hour or two just because I'm such a nice guy. Nor would I ever dream of forcing a co-worker to work off the clock either.

8/18/2009 7:28:31 PM

^^he should have recorded the conversation. That is HIGHLY illegal, and they will be fined immensely by the ESC for pulling shit like that in North Carolina.

8/18/2009 10:41:54 PM

^Agreed. That's why you get it in writing, so they can't go back on it and be all "Oh no, he quit. We didn't fire him." No unemployment for quitting. If a company is forcing you to quit versus fire you, let the assholes fire you.

As for ThatGoodLuck, I hope you called the DOL today... b/c you've been posting all day. I hope you have a case, but the more I'm reading, it seems they may almost have a case against you if they decided to take the low road...but, I don't know. Which is why I say get your case in! Get the DOL investigating NOW, not the end of this week. You were fired last Friday. LET'S GO!!

8/18/2009 11:05:45 PM

i asked for their version of the incident to be written and they refused

8/18/2009 11:19:13 PM

bump

3/1/2010 6:07:28 PM

thx for bump

won my case today!

6 months later!

3/1/2010 6:09:16 PM

Damn, sounds like you had a good Monday.

3/1/2010 6:09:57 PM

So what happens now?

3/1/2010 6:10:20 PM

uh well

i dont have to pay back the 10K+ i made from being on unemployment

definitely a good monday

3/1/2010 6:24:35 PM

also i win my dignity back because i get to say that my employer fired me but without good cause

3/1/2010 6:28:58 PM

Congrats!

3/1/2010 7:27:17 PM

obligatory i realize this thread is for those who have been wrongfully terminated, which i have not, but hear me out

3/1/2010 7:58:55 PM

that meme strikes extra deep because it originated in my "serious business" thread

3/1/2010 8:02:41 PM