2

8/25/2009 12:31:16 PM

meh, you could get a base C6 for low 20's and probably not lose much on it if any. not sure on current pricing for c6 z06's though

8/25/2009 12:34:23 PM

I guess FUCK YOU might be more appropriate then.

8/25/2009 12:44:01 PM

he just seems to care about not losing much money on it..

nobody is arguing the finer points of Z06 vs base over different years, son

8/25/2009 12:46:29 PM

Yeah, like I said, fuck you.

8/25/2009 12:55:01 PM

my bad

8/25/2009 12:57:11 PM

FUCK YOU SON

8/25/2009 12:57:50 PM

8/25/2009 7:32:52 PM

Hmm, the base C6 might be plenty adequate.

Quote :

"he just seems to care about not losing much money on it.. nobody is arguing the finer points of Z06 vs base over different years, son"

Yeah, I assume the cars will depreciate. The question is how much over 1-2 years. If it's within my range of what I'd consider "flushing down the drain and not care" money, then it may very well be worth it. I haven't had a fast vehicle in 5 years and even then it was just a lowly stock S4.

8/25/2009 8:28:25 PM

How about a Nissan 350z, or 370z for that matter. Just another suggestion other than the crossfire.

8/25/2009 8:29:06 PM

^he's talking about getting a Crossfire for $11,000 and you're suggesting a 370Z? Good luck finding one for even double the cost of the Crossfire. Besides, he isn't interested in a real sports car so its irrelevant.

8/26/2009 8:26:45 AM

i enjoy my 2 seater z06.

8/26/2009 9:51:03 AM

^^ didn't read much of the thread. Didn't realize he had such a low budget.

8/26/2009 6:42:09 PM

If it's a decent deal (and it sounds like it is) the Crossfire is a pretty cool car.

It actually looks damn good. Might be the best looking Chrysler they've made in the modern era. It's not SLOW, it's actually a pretty peppy 2 seater. And it's got that uniqueness to it, you don't see too many on the road and people tend to take notice of them.

Also, it's VERY cheap to take a 2004 model and add on the SRT-6 supercharger package. Takes the car to 330hp and really makes it shine as a coupe.

It really is an interesting car, it's got the good guts of the SLK (chassis), and the affordable guts of a GM (drivetrain). If you like it and can get a good price in good condition, go for it.


--------------

To the original question of the thread:

If this is your only vehicle, I would think long and hard about it. I love my Lotus to death, but there's no way it could function as an all-weather, every-day do everything car. Having the 4dr Saturn takes care of it, and makes the Lotus a lot more enjoyable. I actually drive the Lotus probably 85-90% of the time during the summer months, but it sits for most of the fall/winter/spring.

8/26/2009 8:22:39 PM

I'm intrigued by this thread.

at one point, I thought an srt6 crossfire would be a crazy performance bargain.
here's a nice one on ebay for 19500 at 17k miles:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Chrysler-Crossfire-SRT-6-17K-Miles-Rare_W0QQitemZ140341589580QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item20ad02b64c&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

But then after a blast down ebenezer church road in a miata, I realized I'd really miss the manual, so I decided to drive a base crossfire with a stick. I'm sorry, but it really is the standout worst car of that type. It had a long long travel clutch with a high location to the end of the travel, the steering was only better than the fwd (mk1) audi tt's, otherwise worse than everything else, the view out in all directions was the poorest of any car I'd driven at that point and maybe even to this day, with the exception of the new camaro, and it looked like it was going to be an expensive car to own relative to its purchase price. The 215 hp didn't seem like a tiny amount though, disguising the fairly torquey low-end of the 3.2L v6.

It wasn't a truly poor performer, it just was .....not-good-enough compared to other options.

If you buy a crossfire (non srt6), unless you're so blindly in love with the styling, you're going to have buyer's remorse. Miatas and s2000s are about as fast but much more direct and are leagues ahead in feedback and fun-per-mph.

nissan 350zs are not as feelsome or crisp as miatas and s2000s, but still better in such respects than the crossfire by a large margin, and a 350z of some sort will be within your price range. here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-350Z-CLIMATE-CONTROL-PWR-OPTS-SONY-AM-FM-CD-w-IPOD_W0QQitemZ370249658613QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item56349970f5&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

It'd be worth the extra mileage.

and if not the 350z, why not a g35?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Infiniti-G35-Coupe-LOADED-2004-Premium-Coupe-6-Speed-NAV-Performance_W0QQitemZ190329652174QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2c508803ce&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

also, here's 4 that I bet you didn't consider:

-mini cooper S
-mazda rx-8
-mustang
-vw gti

The mini cooper is a revelation, forever obliterating my anti-fwd bigotry. It's a super-fun, high-g, extremely pointable little car, more spacious, fuel efficient, and easier to see out of than the crossfire, includes you in a large "nod-family" of owners, with strong resale values, and its controls are direct and weighty. I've driven both generations and loved both. There are definitely minis you'd love in your price range.

The rx-8 is a rotary-powered 4 seat sports coupe. that ought to imply everything else I'm going to say. It's technically front-mid-engined, but it also has maximum space for its amount of moment of inertia burden. It means miata-aping steering response and grip. An rx8 with 4 people on board would probably leave a crossfire for dead on any sort of twisting road, even if the crossfire's driver was the one attempting to move quickly and the rx8 driver was just enjoying the road. Many cars sound like they're being tortured at high revs while an rx8 just spins and sings. having said all of that, it does drive more like a miata in the bad ways too. You do have to shift it. None of this coasting-to-a-stop-in-fourth with the clutch engaged without a stutter-until-the-last-second that you can get away with in larger-displacement cars. But you won't mind because the shifter is so light and easy. the downside is that I don't know when a renesis will pop. But it is a lot longer than earlier 13bs would have you believe. It's not necessarily a 60k-miles-between-rebuilds proposition, but plenty of people do need a new engine at some point from what I've heard. And adding oil is recurring upkeep, not an occasional chore. Even with all of that though, I think the experience of owning an rx8 may be cost-negligible against the chrysler SLK, and certainly more fun and easier to live with, in terms of practicality.

I drove a 1999 mustang cobra today. My only prior experience with pre-05 mustangs was a '99 35th anniversary GT automatic. Three large differences against that miserable boat:

-quad cam
-5spd manual
-independent rear suspension.

It's no bmw m3, but that is a car you can seriously hustle. It relatively lacks precision and feedback, but no more than a crossfire does, and imo was a better handler and holy crap is that a lovely motor. Nothing sounds better than a ford v8 imo (out of what I've driven, all you lt1-romantics). You may be thinking, "I don't want anything that big," but maybe you're confusing size with weight. crossfires apparently weigh a little over 3000 lbs, but a quick google search suggests that the mustang I drove today was only about 200 lbs more. The previous-gen mustangs, while less refined cars than the current model, were far lighter, and feel it.
Think about this for a second:

the car I drove today seats 4 ppl compared to the crossfire's 2, has 320 hp from 4.6L instead of 215 from 3.2L, suffers no solid-rear axle, only weighs 200 lbs more, and with 40k mi, they were asking $13k at the ford dealer on peter's creek here in winston-salem. $13k for a moderately-used muscle car with comparable handling. really, the only downside compared to a crossfire is the fact that you have to decide whether you're comfortable being seen in a mustang (ok, and looking at the inside and outside of a mustang. butch yes, but also kinda blech in the wrong spec). I have to admit now, today, that I would enjoy driving a (ok, THAT) mustang more than a lot of other cars, maybe even more than a 350z, but then I am a sucker for v8 grumble. I cannot say that of a crossfire.

Lastly, you simply can't shop in the small coupe market without taking a minute to ponder a vw gti. Yes, it's not as sexy a shape as a crossfire, but it's far more fun to drive, second only to a mini cooper for competent fwd performance IMO, rides better, is available in a wide variety of specs, has easy room for modifications for small amounts of money, will hold its value better, and won't require you to live with only 2 seats. The only think I dislike about the gti is that its clutch travel is longer than I like, but then I say that about almost everything since I hold everything against up against miatas. The gti is one of those cars that does so many things so well that people stepping from every other sort of vehicle suddenly realize that the gti could match or come close to what they need their vehicle to be or do. (Ok, apart from people whose DD's also do offroader or towing duties). It's quick, efficient, spacious (and not just "spacious for its size", as with a mini), looks fairly sporty if not as evocatively drawn as a tt or a crossfire or an s2000, offers great visibility, is contradictorily able to be sportier but less showy than a crossfire, and when you ultimately need to sell your "two-door" to move up to a sedan (which you seem to have alluded), you can get a much larger vehicle in the form of any of the fwd vws which will drive in a similarly likeable manner. My gf came very close to getting a tiguan before driving a cx-7.

.....

....

but, your question was about "owning a 2 seater and it be[ing] a problem"

to that sir, I must tell you that I was stuck with my gf's miata for about a month this past year, and... it was less fun than I imagined. A twenty-something male driving between winston-salem and raleigh weekly and helping people move and doing DD duty for law school friends needs access to at least 3 seats or a two-seater only if it's also a pickup (or a g8 ute! BRING IT HERE GM! I WILL BUY IT. I WILL BUY IT. GIMME A G8-amino!).

I was constantly packing and unpacking the car with all manner of things which were surprisingly just-that-little-bit too big in at least one dimension. Have you ever tried to bring a yardstick-length level with you when you're driving a miata? You have to do it top-down. (ok, not really, but the alternative is to try to wedge it next to you or the passenger, and would you really want to be in an accident with an aluminum spear vying for space between your seated position and the rapidly-getting-closer firewall?)

a two-seater of sub-corvette size is indeed more of a limitation than you'd think unless you really do live alone, in a town away from friends, and commute very short distances between work/school and residence. I will concede that a crossfire's hatch and trunk probably would have allowed for fewer "dammit, I wish I didn't have this car right now" moments than I incurred when driving a miata. And likely also better than driving a miata, s2000, boxster, elise, etc. But I guarantee you that it still will be worse than with a gti, mini cooper, rx8, mustang, 350z, vette, g35, or any number of 4-door sedans. A vw jetta GLI would be an especially frustrating car to drive past in a crossfire, and that's not something I'd likely say about any other car in this post.

btw... I never did drive an srt6. It's possible that so much more power (140 hp!) and reconsidered equipment (18" wheels allround instead of 20s on the back) makes a big enough difference, but you aren't going to find one of those for base crossfire money.

8/26/2009 8:39:04 PM

Dear god you write a lot!

I don't think any of you realize that for 90% of the population, track-level performance comparisons don't have ANY impact on a car purchase.

Quote :

"-mini cooper S -mazda rx-8 -mustang -vw gti"

I have a friend that owns a Mini Cooper. It's the most emasculating car of all time, other than maybe a new beetle. It's peppy, but it's also gaudy as fuck (especially the interior) and is made for tweens and hippies.

The RX-8 is another garbage car. Terrible reliability problems, a rear seat that no normal human can fit in, extremely high-rev/low torque engine (which most "normal drivers" avoid like the plague). Hell, I'd be more apt to recommend a late gen RX-7 to the 8. It's not really any more practical either as you still can't haul 4 people on a trip, can't fit anything big inside, and it isn't something you want to drive in shitty weather conditions.

The new mustangs are horrible and getting one in his budget means no performance options. A 1999 mustang cobra (while an awesome car I agree) is a 10 year old performance vehicle. Which means more maintenance. If he could find one in great condition at a steal, definitely an alternative worth thinking about. The downside is that they are generic as hell looking, so if the styling matters, a Mustang is out.

The GTI has the same problem. Great car, lots of fun, but totally unremarkable from a style perspective. Definitely a great alternative functionally speaking though.

8/26/2009 9:53:24 PM

Quote :

"btw... I never did drive an srt6. It's possible that so much more power (140 hp!) and reconsidered equipment (18" wheels allround instead of 20s on the back) makes a big enough difference, but you aren't going to find one of those for base crossfire money."

Also has suspension and brake upgrades and a fixed rear spoiler. 0-60 goes from 6.5 to 4.8s.

You definitely won't find an SRT-6 for 11k, but you can have all that done at a shop for MUCH less than the price difference (looks like most of the SRT's go for 17-19k, you can get all the same upgrades done with OEM parts at a shop for less than half that). Stick a badge on it and call it done.

8/26/2009 9:58:10 PM

mini cooper S is more emasculating than a base crossfire?

maybe I'm biased by the fun factor between those cars and what miata DD experience did for my perception of seeing a miata in traffic, but I'd think you of all ppl would love the mini cooper, given that its so relatively tiny and space efficient and you're a lotus owner.

100kmi original-engine Rx8s are not uncommon now, something that couldn't ever be said about 13b rx-7s. I'll be the first to admit that owning an rx8 isn't something you can expect to go on forever with basic maintenance, as might be the case with something like an old-school integra, but c'mon. 100k is what used to be merely "planned obsolescence" and hardly is likely to be as long as this dude plans to own it.

As for "no normal human", I must not be normal since I fit very comfortably in the back seat of an rx8, better than any other vehicle calling itself a coupe except maybe a gto (or a RR drophead coupe, but c'mon now....). I'll concede I'm short though, at a hobbitlike 5'6." As far as carrying stuff, I really think there's very few things that could make use of the crossfire's single-volume trunk that couldn't also fit within an rx8 between its trunk and back seats. (edit: removed crazy tv argument... ) And what's that about shitty weather? That one's totally news to me.

keep in mind here, this is all relative to a CROSSFIRE. you really wouldn't prefer a mini or rx8 to a crossfire?

btw: yeah, that mustang was pretty hot today. Way better than what I expected. My wife might consider leaving me if I became a mustang owner though. UNGH at WOT in 1st tho.... hot damn.

[Edited on August 26, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason : removed luggage/tv comments]

8/26/2009 10:23:30 PM

actually my original choice was the rx-8, then 350z, then infiniti G35
but the crossfire caught my eye and the price was good

I havent driven the other cars yet so i'm still undecided, thanks for the suggestions
i'll need to go around and do more test drives

8/26/2009 11:01:49 PM

Quote :

"but I'd think you of all ppl would love the mini cooper, given that its so relatively tiny and space efficient and you're a lotus owner. "

I would drive the shit out of a Mini on a track. But on the street it feels like I'm driving a really tiny bus. The interior is waaayyy too open, the seats aren't form fitting at all, the driving position is too vertical, the wheel/shifter/pedal arrangement is wonky, and the whole of the dash/gauges/center console is incredibly distracting (to me).

Quote :

" As far as carrying stuff, I really think there's very few things that could make use of the crossfire's single-volume trunk that couldn't also fit within an rx8 between its trunk and back seats. "

That was my point. Not that a crossfire could carry more, but that I doubt any 2dr or 2+2 is going to have any more usable cargo room. It's all a wash compared to any true 4dr sedan or true 2dr hatchback.

Quote :

"And what's that about shitty weather? That one's totally news to me. "

RWD sports cars suck dick driving in bad weather (downpour/ice/snow). Not that you can't drive one safely, but it sucks. Again, this was just talking about sports cars in general as a DD, not targeting any one specifically.

Quote :

"keep in mind here, this is all relative to a CROSSFIRE. you really wouldn't prefer a mini or rx8 to a crossfire?...actually my original choice was the rx-8, then 350z, then infiniti G35 but the crossfire caught my eye and the price was good"

If it were between those 3, I'd definitely take the crossfire. If you add in the 350z and G35, it would be the 350, the G35 and then the crossfire. The 350z is a bit of a pig in the front, but it was pretty damn fun throwing around and really well built. Interior is pretty nice as well.

8/27/2009 5:17:29 AM

Quote :

"The RX-8 is another garbage car. Terrible reliability problems,"

have to agree here. bosses wife got one brand new a few years ago and had to have major warranty work done 4 or 5 times in the first year. fucking awful.

8/27/2009 8:08:47 AM

I don't know... The rx8 was a helluva fun car to toss around. I actually enjoyed driving it, however, I'm leary of actually owning one with my own money. Malfunctions and other horror stories have kept me from buying one. If reliability wasn't a concern, I would have one.

8/27/2009 8:39:21 AM

Quote :

"RWD sports cars suck dick driving in bad weather (downpour/ice/snow). Not that you can't drive one safely, but it sucks. Again, this was just talking about sports cars in general as a DD, not targeting any one specifically."

I rode with a friend 60km on a snow covered Autobahn in a Z3 @ 50mph with just snow tires without too much trouble.

Ice, no hope for anyone.

8/27/2009 8:45:55 AM

-old school Mustangs have godawful interiors. they just scream POS.
-anything 3 feet long fits easily in the trunk of an S2000 (my entire set of golf clubs fit easily.
-if you're DD'ing who cares if you have a 2 seater. Drive the other person's car.
-RWD cars are fine in the snow. They're more balanced and should handle better than FWD. What you're forgetting is that these cars are driving on summer tires. If you want good cold weather grip you have to pony up for another set of tires.
-a Mini's center mounted gauges can suck a dick.

Finally, he said he's considering 2 seater sports cars. Not hot hatches. So toss out the Mini and GTI. Besides, the Mazdaspeed 3 has shown repeatedly that it blows both those cars into the weeds.

8/27/2009 11:01:57 AM

^I thought you were all about that Cobalt SS? I mean, I know you like the Speed3, but....

8/27/2009 12:05:46 PM

The Cobras he brought up are the only Mustangs that I actually find desirable, I even like the non-Supercharged versions. The fact that they come with IRS, a T-56 (If you get a 2000 Cobra R or a 2003-2004 Cobra) and the DOHC 32v engine puts them in another category from standard Mustangs as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, 99% of people don't know this, so the image does leave something to be desired if you're one of these idiots that's all worked up about your car's image.

8/27/2009 12:31:42 PM

The more you know...

8/27/2009 2:24:45 PM

Too bad a Cobalt SS will whip that Mustang silly on a track.

(happy Stephen, lol)

8/27/2009 3:12:19 PM

sure

10/15/2009 10:49:47 AM

sure

10/15/2009 10:49:47 AM

2 seaters are a lot of fun to drive but i don't think i'd ever own one.

11/15/2009 10:28:59 PM

kinda like fat chicks?

11/16/2009 1:14:59 PM

this could be a very stupid question...

I like vw's and am looking at test driving a gti. Do the back windows roll down, or just the driver and passenger windows?

11/20/2009 12:19:42 AM

Quote :

"Too bad a Cobalt SS will whip that Mustang silly on a track. (happy Stephen, lol)"

'atta boy

11/20/2009 12:32:16 AM

The VW's rear windows don't roll down. Often coupes of that nature (really a hatch more than anything) may have pop up rear windows.

11/20/2009 1:27:05 AM

thats about as useless as tits on a boar hog

11/21/2009 8:25:47 AM