^^ ?

10/22/2009 2:44:40 PM

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/3rds-12-gauge-tail-stabilized-bean-bag-ammo/cName/lessthanlethal-ammo-12-gauge-ammo

followed by 00 buck.

the only real warning shot.

[Edited on October 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason : +]

10/22/2009 3:01:49 PM

If you fire, it needs to be to kill. Period. First shot.

High, crazy, and drunk motherfuckers don't feel bean-bag pain. You need to disrupt the functioning of the central nervous system, and cause instantaneous and massive loss of blood pressure. Inflicting pain is not enough. That means 00-Buck or a heavy slug. You may only get one shot.

10/22/2009 3:46:53 PM

^^^the situation was still unsafe when he realized the guy was still on his property

10/22/2009 3:55:45 PM

I'm the neighbor.

darkone summarized it very well. I wanted to add that the detectives told me they caught the guy. He was still sitting in the van when they found him based on a suspicious person call. He still had the hammer and a small cut in him and that grey t-shirt where I got him with the pocketknife.
They said he had no connection to Raleigh so I don't know where he is from but I hope to never see him again.

To answer a couple of the other posts... I've been lucky enough to have never been in the situation where I honestly thought the guy was about to kill me. It's hard to say what you'll do in that situation and I never really wanted to find out.

When I got inside I got my shotgun and called 911. I figured it was over. After a couple minutes I stepped back outside to see if I could see which way he ran and wait for the cop car.
When came around the corner 10 feet away I wasn't exactly thinking calmly.

I pointed the gun and told him to get down on the ground. He started to but then decided to take off. That's when I shot one in the air instead of his back. It was stupid and I know better. A lot of adrenaline and a knot on your head from a hammer will do that. I will say I do hope it got his attention enough to think twice before ever pulling anything like that again. I'm also glad it was me and not another neighbor that might not have been able to fight back as well.

Point of my post is to say, they caught this guy but be careful out there and don't hesitate to call the cops for suspicious people in your neighborhood.

-Sean

10/22/2009 3:56:39 PM

I hear ya bud. good job on fighting back and getting away. glad everything is ok now. and yeh, the shot probably wasn't the best thing to do, but as I said earlier in this thread, it's understandable and in the end it probably helped you out. no one knows how they'll react in this situation and even fewer would be fully aware of what they're doing in this situation. fear and adrenaline take over and sometimes you do what your mind perceives as the best way to save your life. anyways, ignore the assholes on here, welcome to TWW, good job staying safe & getting him caught.

10/22/2009 4:01:19 PM

^^good honest self assesment in that post


i feel you man, i commend you for defending your home and as much as it pains me to say it...without hurtin that piece of shit


but...i would assume you arent anticipaing legal precedings, since you posted that account on here, just somethin to think about

[Edited on October 22, 2009 at 4:03 PM. Reason : f]

10/22/2009 4:03:04 PM

At least they nailed the guy.

10/22/2009 4:22:21 PM

the system will let him go, you had a clean shot at that POS and let him off the hook.

Fuck that motherfucker.

It's only going to get worse as America's entitlement programs fail to offer I-pods and bluetooths for free

10/22/2009 8:19:20 PM

^Fuck off troll. We wouldn't want to reverse who was in jail and who was free

10/22/2009 8:26:24 PM

^ No, im glad he's okay and the other guy isn't. Just wish it was acceptable to shoot at neegs who don't understand their place. Our justice system empowers the people we should be mutilating.

10/22/2009 8:28:43 PM

In that case, yes, I see what you meant. I still believe that fellow should be on a chain gang to sweep sidewalks for a few years.

10/22/2009 8:38:24 PM

rallydurham, if you dont watch dexter on showtime, you should start.

based on your post i think you'd love the show. seriously.

10/22/2009 8:40:18 PM

I think he'd like some Charles Bronson films.

10/22/2009 8:49:05 PM

He's wearing Nikes.
GET THIS MAN

10/22/2009 9:38:31 PM

so help me, i'd have shot the guy in the knee and then called the cops after i was sure he was bleeding profusely and in great pain on my lawn...after calling the cops, i'd then go outside and threaten to shoot him in the face if he moved an inch...additionally, i'd be calling him names and insulting his mother

fuckers

10/23/2009 10:55:20 AM

i keep two rounds of #9 shot, followed by two 1 1/8 ounce slugs in my 870, if the first two don't get the point across or disable, the last two will end it

if i was in the same situation, as long as he was facing me, i would not have hesitated on a center of mass shot

10/23/2009 11:17:49 AM

this on wral yet?

10/23/2009 11:24:21 AM

Quote :

"so help me, i'd have shot the guy in the knee and then called the cops after i was sure he was bleeding profusely and in great pain on my lawn...after calling the cops, i'd then go outside and threaten to shoot him in the face if he moved an inch...additionally, i'd be calling him names and insulting his mother"

and hope you don't get charged with something. and you would probably be sued by the guy for shooting out his knees.

this is fucking stupid. YOU NEVER SHOOT TO DISARM/WOUND/ETC. YOU NEVER SHOOT FOR ARMS/LEGS. YOU SHOOT TO KILL. I'm telling you, with the influx of more anti-gunners and infiltration of those into the judicial/legal system, one of these days, if you shoot to wound, you'll get charged with attempted murder. mark my words.

Besides, why on earth would you shoot at something much smaller than center of mass? As I said before, if you're not in enough danger to shoot to kill, then you shouldn't been shooting at all. The point of being armed and using deadly force (if you fire a gun at someone, it will be considered use of deadly force, no matter where you aim) is to defend your life when it is on the line (or risk of serious injury or sexual assault) and to do so, you shoot to stop the threat immediately and decisively. Trying to shoot someone in the arm/leg is not the same as shooting to end the thread immediately and decisively; it is wrong, it is stupid, and it may get in you in trouble, if not killed.



[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 12:21:59 PM

^ sometimes shooting is a punishment, an attempt to teach them a lesson they desperately need to learn

the dude attacked the guy with a HAMMER...you can kill someone with a hammer, so my position is that fucker is trying to KILL the other guy

at that point, i'm doing him a favor by making sure he never walks again (at least, that's my goal), rather than killing him outright

now, i admit...i'm not sure i'd actually shoot someone if they had finally decided to back off...most of what i say is intarweb bravado

but believe you me...were i on a jury and the case was some fucker that attacked a guy with a hammer and then had his knee blown out, i'd absolutely rule in favor of the guy with the gun

some people don't deserve the right to walk around amongst the rest of us...those people should be taught lessons that are impossible to forget...this seems like a pretty clear-cut case - there's no history of the two people knowing each other, and so this is some random act of violence that should be punished accordingly

10/23/2009 12:38:13 PM

Don't shoot a dude with a hammer. It's a sure way to get framed.

10/23/2009 12:41:34 PM

^^still stupid and I hope you are never in that situation. what you are saying is wrong and potentially illegal if you do as you say. also, it is not your right to punish someone who commits a crime. please don't be a vigilante as you make normal, law-abiding gun owners look bad. punishment is for the legal system, not you. you have the right to DEFEND yourself, not punish criminals. And sure, getting beaten in the head with a hammer can cause serious injury or death, so during that act or just prior to it, using deadly force to DEFEND yourself and immediately and decisively stop the threat is perfectly fine. Shooting someone in the knee is neither one of these.

I agree, if I were on the jury on a case like this, I would certainly not go against the one defending himself. However, I, or you, are not the jury pool. And I agree that some people don't deserve to walk freely among us; however, it is no my duty nor my right to take that freedom from them. We have laws. We have police. We have a court system. It is up to these parties to punish. It is up to us to defend our own lives.

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 1:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 1:31:25 PM

Quote :

"still stupid"

opinion != fact

Quote :

"I hope you are never in that situation."

oh, ditto...i'm a wuss and i'd much rather never have to deal with the situation in the first place

Quote :

"what you are saying is wrong"

opinions != facts != legalities != overall view of right and wrong

Quote :

"potentially illegal if you do as you say"

depends on where you live...i took a criminal law course about 5 years ago, taught by a wake county judge...we went over this, but i forgot what you are and are not allowed to do, legally

Quote :

"it is not your right to punish someone who commits a crime"

legally, it depends...if the crime is happening and affects me in a way that might endanger my life, if my "punishment" and the steps i take to preserve my life are the same thing, then it absolutely IS my right

however, since the term "right" can be in regards to my moral right, i take great issue with you telling me what i can and cannot do, since my "rights" are completely subjective...i truly believe that i have the right to do whatever the fuck i want to someone whose intent is to kill me (unless you're saying that you know for a FACT that the attacker in this story had no such intentions?)...i'll be honest, not knowing their complete intentions but knowing that they are actively and intentionally harming my person, i honest-to-god feel like i have the moral right to do WHATEVER i want to them...they started it, without provocation, so i see it as my place to end it

Quote :

"please don't be a vigilante as you make normal, law-abiding gun owners look bad"

i think your understanding of what a "vigilante" is a bit off:

defending myself against an unprovoked attack where the attackers intentions are unknown != deciding that my judgment is sufficient for the punishment of criminals

Quote :

"punishment is for the legal system, not you"

you don't believe in spanking, either, do you? i know what you mean, though

Quote :

"you have the right to DEFEND yourself, not punish criminals. And sure, getting beaten in the head with a hammer can cause serious injury or death, so during that act or just prior to it, using deadly force to DEFEND yourself and immediately and decisively stop the threat is perfectly fine."

you're contradicting yourself by saying that "during the act or just prior to it," i have the right to defend myself using deadly force...so you're saying that if it LOOKS like i might get hurt, i should kill first and ask questions later? that doesn't jive with your argument since, in the case you just demonstrated, i don't know for a FACT that the POSSIBLE attacker will hurt me

in a perfectly clear-cut situation, this wouldn't be a problem because you would know exactly what the person's intentions were and could act accordingly...but if i am ACTIVELY being attacked, i reserve the right to blow their face off...if an attack just finished and i've gotten a weapon, called the cops, and told the joker to get on the ground and he makes steps toward me, i sure as hell will shoot him rather than risk being attacked again, and so i take issue with this:

Quote :

"Shooting someone in the knee is neither one of these."

it's ensuring that i am safe, which is more important than the attacker...the moment the attacker decides he has the right to harm me and attacks me for no reason, he loses his right to life over my own...he becomes less important and no longer deserves the rights afforded to decent human beings...it's that simple

10/23/2009 1:54:15 PM

^If you are shooting the person in the knee, then they aren't a legitimate threat to you. If they are a legitimate threat, then you shoot to kill. If they are not a legitimate threat then you don't even need a gun. This has nothing to do with the laws; it is responsible gun ownership.

Stupidity aside, logistically speaking "shooting to wound" isn't even viable. There isn't a master marksman in the world that can guarantee that a leg wound won't end up killing someone.

You fuckers that are talking about shooting to wound should not own guns. I don't even own a gun and I'm not that stupid about it. You people are part of the reason anti-gun legislation can pass in this country.



------------------
To Sean, it's good to hear you're alright. Fuck if I was in your situation I can't say I wouldn't have done exactly like you did or shit my pants. I'm glad you aren't seriously wounded (how bad did he get you with the hammer?) and that the woman and her kids are ok.

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 1:55:08 PM

^ so you're actually saying that if you're going to shoot at someone, regardless of the reason, it should be to kill or not at all? i understand the idea, but i think you're a dumbass for believing it's the only way because it implies that YOU are god and know EXACTLY what their intentions are...you're also saying that the shooter's idea of "threat" should be absolute...fuck, i hope i'm not on the receiving end of YOUR misunderstanding

heaven forbid that some of us realize that in the heat of something dangerous, we might not have the clearest view of what's going on and would rather err on the side of caution when the opportunity presents itself...because i'm gonna tell you, kid...if the fucker only has a hammer, he's going to have a HELL of a time coming after me with only one leg (though i realize you think he should be dead, just in case)

you know, when i have kids, i suspect i should beat them until they pass out, or not at all...after all, there's no way to GUARANTEE that they'll get the message with just a light spanking, so i should probably beat to win or not bother

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:04:53 PM

gun != corporal punishment moron.

"regardless of the reason" is meaningless in regards to guns. the *ONLY* reason to shoot someone is to incapacitate them. You don't shoot someone to

Quote :

"sometimes shooting is a punishment, an attempt to teach them a lesson they desperately need to learn"

THIS is what's fucking retarded about your point of view. I'm sorry, this isn't a matter of opinion.

Quote :

"heaven forbid that some of us realize that in the heat of something dangerous, we might not have the clearest view of what's going on and would rather err on the side of caution when the opportunity presents itself...because i'm gonna tell you, kid...if the fucker only has a hammer, he's going to have a HELL of a time coming after me with only one leg (though i realize you think he should be dead, just in case)"

If Sean had his gun when the guy was coming at him with a hammer, the guy would be dead and justifiably so. A hammer used in this fashion is a deadly weapon. Shit, if I have a gun and the other guy has his bare fists, I'm still shooting to kill. Dead is dead, no matter if they killed you with a gun, a hammer, choking you, or grabbing your gun and shooting you with it.

IF THEY ARE A LEGITIMATE THREAT TO YOUR LIFE, THEN SHOOT THEM IN THE CENTER OF MASS TO INCAPACITATE THEM IMMEDIATELY. Anything less is you putzing around with your gun and irresponsible.

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:08:08 PM

Quote :

"the *ONLY* reason to shoot someone is to incapacitate them."

you DO realize that you can "incapacitate" someone without killing them, right?

oh, nevermind, you're not even aware of words you're using anymore

Quote :

"this isn't a manner of opinion."

you struggle with the english language, don't you? because it's obvious that you don't understand the meaning of "opinion"

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:09:18 PM

^good lord man.

1.) I'm talking about legal rights. no one cares about your moral rights. what's someone going to do? take you to morals court? You have the legal right to defend your life, not to punish others (and punishing a kid for doing something wrong and punishing adults for crimes aren't even comparable. and for the record, I do believe in spanking.)

2.) And I did not contradict myself. If you knew the laws, you wouldn't have said this. Learn the laws, learn about gun rights, learn about gun safety, and learn about self-defense, then we'll talk. And for a little tidbit of NC law... if some threatens you with imminent death, serious injury, or sexual assault and you truly believe they have the means to do so and will do so, yes you can use deadly force to prevent any of the above from happening. Example: shooting an intruder breaking into your home while in the act of entering illegally. shooting someone who points a gun at you.

3.)

Quote :

"it's ensuring that i am safe, which is more important than the attacker...the moment the attacker decides he has the right to harm me and attacks me for no reason, he loses his right to life over my ow[b]n...he becomes less important and no longer deserves the rights afforded to decent human beings...it's that simple"

you contradicted yourself. see the bolded part. IF THAT'S TRUE, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU AIMING (AND MOST LIKELY MISSING) THE DUDES LEGS?



and we're talking about what you can do and be within or as close to within the self-defense laws. I don't care about your morals, etc.

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:12 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:10:21 PM

I can't improve on what wdprice3 just told you, but I just want to point this out...

Quote :

"you know, when i have kids, i suspect i should beat them until they pass out, or not at all...after all, there's no way to GUARANTEE that they'll get the message with just a light spanking, so i should probably beat to win or not bother"

Spanking a kid is for punishment. Shooting somebody while they are attempting to attack you is completely different. That is not an apt metaphor.

10/23/2009 2:18:39 PM

Please do not attempt to shoot to wound. I like my gun rights.

10/23/2009 2:20:34 PM

Quote :

"I'm talking about legal rights. no one cares about your moral rights. what's someone going to do? take you to morals court?"

this is where we part ways...i don't give a RAT'S ASS about the law, you moron...i speed, i download music, and i don't always come to a complete stop at stop signs

do you know why? because laws exist for those incapable of making good choices in the first place...they ensure broad strokes of "fairness" without necessarily allowing for situations outside the defined realm of what is and isn't allowed

i speed (pretty heavily, at times) when traffic is light, the weather isn't a factor, and no one else is in the car...i download music that i can't easily get legally (i have a thing for some japanese orchestral compositions not available on itunes, amazon, or any english website)...i don't bother stopping completely at stop signs when i can see far in the distance and no one else is on the road

by your stance, all of these are heinous crimes for which i should be strictly and unmercifully punished to the fullest extent of the law...that makes you a dumbass and completely beneath me

since you feel so strongly, i must assume that you NEVER break ANY laws, yes? get the fuck off your high horse, kid

Quote :

"IF THAT'S TRUE, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU AIMING (AND MOST LIKELY MISSING) THE DUDES LEGS?"

ah, i can see why you're confused...first, you are of the opinion that the only way to protect myself is to kill the person, while i believe that you can ensure your own safety by simply incapacitating them (i suggest you go look up the definition of this word, since you seem incapable of using it correctly)

also, you've got to be a shitty shot...i've competed (and won) a number of archery, shotgun, and riflery tournaments in my life (though none since sophomore year in college), so i'm pretty sure i could manage to hit a guy's legs from 10 yards with a fucking shotgun...you might struggle with this, though, so it's entirely possible that this is a difficult scenario for you to imagine

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:29 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:27:59 PM

Lessons from this thread:

1) Be aware of unfamiliar people in your neighborhood and don't be afraid to report suspicious people to the police.
2) Don't feed the trolls.

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:30 PM. Reason : thread vs post]

10/23/2009 2:30:16 PM

If you shoot someone in the legs from 10', and you don't have a damn good story, you're going to most likely have a criminal charge against you that will be hard to fight.

Regardless, you're gonna be the person's bitch for the rest of your life, making his salary.

10/23/2009 2:31:13 PM

well, i'll tell you all what...you can cling to your legal rights, but realize that if you come after me with a hammer, i will fucking shoot you, end of story

let the law do what it will, but in the end, you're gonna be the one that's been shot, and with good reason...i'd rather be the crazy gun-toting asshole that's a good shot and not afraid to shoot people who attack me than the dude that gets hurt because the attacker comes back after realizing that they're a pussy (this is not in reference to original story...i'm just pointing out that i'd rather maim someone who just finished attacking me than risk them coming back to finish the job because they know i won't make good on my threats)

Quote :

"If you shoot someone in the legs from 10', and you don't have a damn good story, you're going to most likely have a criminal charge against you that will be hard to fight. Regardless, you're gonna be the person's bitch for the rest of your life, making his salary."

"a damn good story"...you mean "this fucker attacked me with a hammer, and then came at me a second time, so i decided to incapacitate him before he could do more damage?" that's a great story

haha, i won't be paying his salary...i'm glad y'all are terrified of john grisham books, but i'm not

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 2:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 2:33:45 PM

Not really, if he's still alive, he can counter your story and win. You will be their bitch.

10/23/2009 2:36:50 PM

Yeah, even if you aren't criminally charged, that is a potential for a hell of a civil suit.

10/23/2009 2:40:16 PM

Quote :

"Not really, if he's still alive, he can counter your story and win. You will be their bitch."

so what this all REALLY comes down to is, "shoot to kill, else those laws you love might really fuck you over?"

yeah, i really don't think there's much y'all can say worth listening to, when the moral of the story is eliminate people who might not tell the truth

10/23/2009 2:40:38 PM

Well I am glad no one got hurt. Its super scary when you're put in that sort of situation that you have to do what your instinct tells you what to do.

I really want to get a pistol for myself and keep on me at all times. I have been shooting guns for a few years, but I don't have that much practice. So of course I also want it for range shooting.

But I decided I needed one because this past Jan. I went to hang out with a few of my friends at the bowling alley and drink a few beers. In fact, it was me, my boy, his friend and his girl and we met up with some of our other friends but it was obvious we were not in the same group.

So one of the other guys in the other group started talking crap to some crazy hispanics (of which I didn't even know was going on) and when I did figure out that they were getting upset, I told my boy that I wanted to leave. He insisted on not leaving but i told him I don't feel good about the situation and I wanted to get away from the group that joined us.

So we left, however; once we left those hispanics thought we were part of it and they all left and started following us. I was driving my friends truck because I wasn't drinking. Seriously, about 4 cars surrounded us and wouldn't let us out of the parking spaces. I started getting scared and started yelling to call the cops.

I was finally able to get out of my spot and I circled around the parking lot to try to avoid them and they all followed me. I didn't know what to do. So I decided to flee out of the parking lot and head for the highway. As soon as I came up to the stoplight, one of the cars pulls up next to us, the driver ducks and the passenger pulls out a gun and aims it at my boy and I. He ducks and I couldn't really duck because i was driving but when I saw it, I ran the red light and he slammed a beer bottle into their car to distract them. When I turned, they rammed the back of the truck so bad the launched us in the air and got stuck under us. I put it peddle to the metal and got off. I soon found myself in the worse of places (behind a deserted building/alley) and the truck's axels were torn up. I couldn't go hardly anywhere. But I think the guys that hit us were so scared they took off onto the highway (which I had missed because they rammed me). I circled back around into public eye (Mc Donald's) and tried to go inside. They wouldn't even let us in even though there were crazy hispanics trying to kill us.

But the cops finally showed up. And even after a shocking experience like that, they were about to arrest my boy for waving his arms around (aka telling the cops what happened).


But I guess what I am trying to say, is that when you feel your life is threatened, I believe your natural instincts to protect yourself and your property take over. And if someone pulled a gun, knife, whatever on you, I am sure anyone would run for their weapon of choice. In my case I didn't have one, but if they would have shot that gun, someone might not be alive.

Its pretty scary... I trembled just writing that little bit

10/23/2009 2:42:21 PM

Lots of Monday morning quarterbacks in this thread.

10/23/2009 2:42:58 PM

great, so you're the type that says fuck the law and may possible ruin gun rights for those that obey and respect the law. you are no different than the thug who attacked the guy that this is about. you don't care about the law at all, you are above the law. wonderful. I think someone here at work stole a flash drive off my desk, and i'm pretty sure who it is. I don't have any evidence but I'm gonna go kick their ass and steal their shit since laws don't matter.

10/23/2009 2:44:33 PM

Quote :

"great, so you're the type that says fuck the law and may possible ruin gun rights for those that obey and respect the law."

yes and no...i truly don't believe the government knows best in EVERY situation, and as an adult capable of independent thought (something you obviously struggle with, so you get pity points from me), you can't understand that not all situations are the same in reality (though they may be according the letter of the law)

Quote :

"you are no different than the thug who attacked the guy that this is about."

it's kind of sad that you see some guy attacking another with a hammer, with no provocation at all, and equate that with someone who says he'd shoot with the intent to incapacitate (seriously, i STRONGLY suggest you educate yourself as to what this word means) instead of kill

you're kinda fucked up if that's the best you can do

Quote :

"you don't care about the law at all, you are above the law"

believing that the law does not apply equally in all situations != thinking someone is above the law

good try, though

Quote :

"I think someone here at work stole a flash drive off my desk, and i'm pretty sure who it is. I don't have any evidence but I'm gonna go kick their ass and steal their shit since laws don't matter."

look, if that's what you've taken from this, you have my pity for how hard you must struggle in life

10/23/2009 3:12:24 PM

oh come on, you're just trolling now.

10/23/2009 3:19:31 PM

pointing out how the things you say are silly is not trolling, but i can understand how someone who has trouble establishing a valid point that isn't contracted by their own statements later on might think that

enjoy the crutch that is your laws (that you only obey when convenient, of course)...i'm out to make sure that no americans are allowed to have guns!

RAWR RAWR RAWR

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

10/23/2009 3:28:48 PM

And I'm not even talking about laws. I'm talking about responsible gun ownership. You don't get your gun off on people to teach them a lesson. You do it to prevent them from killing you. And aiming for the legs in this goal is stupid for many reasons which have already been laid out in the thread.

And hot shot, in terms of a gun, incapacitate and killing most often coincide. incapacitate means eliminate that persons ability to harm you. You are not guaranteed to do this with a shot to the leg (not the least because you are more likely to miss), but even a hit to the leg may not stop someone that really is trying to kill you.

Terminal ballistics and stopping power are extensive fields of study. There is a reason cops are not trained to shoot threats in the leg.

10/23/2009 4:02:47 PM

I'm scared. Maybe the horrible shit that WKNC plays on my shed radio will repel ne'erdowells as I work outside late at night.

10/23/2009 4:14:24 PM

i like ya quagmire, but im not feelin you in this thread

actually im not feeling the entire debate, yall are debating law v.s. personal values


i wish you could aim to incapacitate without risking crimnal and civil action, but thats not realistic at all considering the amount of lawyers that will spam you (ever got a speeding ticket?)

so, to me, I want to be within the letter of the law as much as possible or at least act in a manner that is defensible in court. I kind of do agree with the fact that if you arent acting to completely incapacitate/kill depending on the weapon in a situation then chances are you could have avoided the situation completely....generally

of course i can think of exceptions and im not generally fond of it, but I do agree with the spirit of the legal interpetation

10/23/2009 4:38:58 PM

doublepost

[Edited on October 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2009 8:32:22 PM

Quote :

"yes and no...i truly don't believe the government knows best in EVERY situation, and as an adult capable of independent thought (something you obviously struggle with, so you get pity points from me), you can't understand that not all situations are the same in reality (though they may be according the letter of the law) "

will 12 others think the same after you shoot someone?

If they are in the process of killing/attempting to kill you then you can shoot them. If you're doing it to punish them, you will most likely go to jail. period.

doesn't matter what YOU THINK is right or wrong, doesn't matter if it IS right or wrong.

I think lots of things about the government/laws are stupid and incorrect, doesn't mean that I don't still abide by the laws of the land.

10/23/2009 8:32:59 PM

shoot to kill or don't shoot at all. shooting to wound is much more dangerous for you, both physically (if you miss, or do not incapacitate the attacker) and legally (the guy is still alive to tell his side of the story).

10/23/2009 9:48:24 PM

Quote :

"shoot to kill stop the threat or don't shoot at all."

10/23/2009 11:20:36 PM