Just so we realize, there's a hidden cost here to the consumer.

Since the state is basically able to buy in extreme bulk the cost of liquor is MUCH cheaper than any other state I've been to. Granted, I haven't been very far, mainly in the south, but comparing prices (particularly on top shelf liquors) is almost pointless.

Privatizing the liquor sales in NC would probably lead to higher overall costs.

But that's not really a strong argument against it, I'm just pointing out the possibility.

1/4/2010 7:08:16 AM

^ Private businesses can buy in bulk, too. And what about the effects of competition?

1/4/2010 10:47:06 AM

Competition brings prices down. Liquor isn't that expensive, but it should be cheaper. We need to get rid of these laws.

1/4/2010 11:52:50 AM

I think this really depends on how you model your liquor laws. We could do the Midwest thing: as mentioned before, Missouri, which is hardly a bastion of liberal thought, sells liquor in its grocery stores. Little section integrated into the wine isle. No big deal.

Of course, we could go in the opposite direction and do the Massachusetts/Maryland (Baltimore County) approach where ALL alcohol sales are restricted to liquor stores (ie. no beer in grocery stores or gas stations). Massachusetts loosened up and allowed beer sales on Sundays as of 2004, but supposedly they still have the noon on Sundays laws. (As a kicker, Massachusetts has a ban on "Happy Hour" pricing too) Maryland, or at least Baltimore county early the previous decade, had similar restrictions. You don't need Southern Baptists to create crazy liquor laws: just really old laws from the good old days that people today, while not caring about the religious implications, don't want to change because they think the vagrants will create problems.

1/4/2010 12:01:59 PM

In this case competition wouldn't bring the prices down.

^ As he said, it would depend on what kind of liquor shops we could get. If they're attached to grocers and big retail chains then yeah, prices will go down on the middle shelf stuff. The bottom shelf will stay the same and the top shelf would probably disappear altogether in those stores.

Private stores that open up selling the middle, top, and high-end liquors wouldn't be able to match the buying power that the state of NC currently has.

In my mind, the ideal situation for the consumer would be if a group like Specs were to move into the state. Warehouses of liquor with solid selection and a damned fine deli. Since it's a big chain they have good buying power but don't ignore the high-end liquors and wines. Total Wine seems like they're already set up for that, and they do sell spirits in other states. I just wish they had a deli.

Of course, I freely admit that I'm talking out of my ass here. I've just been reflecting on the positives of our socialized spirits since I've been up in DC and seen what passes for "cheap" liquor prices around here.

1/4/2010 2:52:22 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/6737488/

Quote :

"New Hanover ABC board members resign amid salary review All three New Hanover County Alcoholic Beverage Control board members resigned Monday, the same day county commissioners planned to discuss the salary of the ABC board's administrator. In their resignation letter, Chairman Charles Wells and members Richard Hanson and Stephen Culbreth said "the divisiveness of the continuing disputes (have) become more insidious and disruptive of the functioning of the ABC system." While Wells earned $3,000 and Hanson and Culbreth earned $2,400 last year, they oversaw the highest-paid ABC administrator in the state who made $214,000 a year with a $30,000 bonus, even though Mecklenburg County does triple the sales. .... One reason is that job responsibilities may differ from place to place. State officials said they aren’t sure, because no one tracks the information. At the direction of Gov. Bev Perdue, the state commission asked local ABC stores to submit salary and policy information. Fewer than half of the boards said they have salary policies. As for ethics, a little more than half of the boards have a policy in place. Even then, the employees might still be allowed to accept gifts from industry members."

Sounds like a brilliant system to have in place.

1/5/2010 12:03:33 AM

In california you can go to the CVS to get your perscription, a pack of condoms, a bottle of vodka, and surf wax all in the same TRIP!!

1/5/2010 11:23:07 PM

I wish we could all be more like California.

1/6/2010 3:03:03 AM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/7138993/

Quote :

"State wants to know how much ABC system is worth Raleigh, N.C. — North Carolina has hired an outside consultant to place a dollar value on the state-run liquor distribution business in case lawmakers decide to privatize it. Lawmakers two weeks ago formed a committee to study possible reforms to the state Alcoholic Beverage Control system in the wake of scandals in both Mecklenburg and New Hanover counties. Gov. Beverly Perdue sent a letter to lawmakers Monday outlining her thoughts about the future of the ABC system. If nothing else changes, she said, tighter state controls are needed to reduce the possibility of further ethics lapses. WRAL Investigates reported that the former New Hanover County ABC board administrator made $244,000 a year, and his son earned $135,000 as his assistant. The Mecklenburg County ABC had to repay $9,000 to a liquor company that had picked up the tab for an expensive holiday dinner for board members, employees and their families. Since lawmakers are looking at possibly privatizing liquor sales, Perdue said she instructed state ABC Commission Chairman Jon Williams to hire a consultant to determine the value of both the distribution and retail sales system. "In this way, if we decide to privatize any part of the ABC system, we will know what it is worth before trying to sell it," she wrote in the letter, adding that she believes it's the first time any state has undertaken such a step. John Converse, chairman of the Wake County Board of Alcohol Control, said Monday that he sees no reason to change the existing system. There are about 160 local ABC board statewide, and problems have been found at only two, he told Wake County commissioners. "We welcome reform that will make our system better," Converse said. The Wake County ABC was the most profitable in North Carolina during the 2009 fiscal year, he said. The 21 stores sold $75.3 million in liquor and generated $12.8 million in profits, $20 million in state tax revenue and $5.4 million for county and local governments, he said. Perdue said any plan to privatize liquor sales must be through a contract that the state can renew or submit to new bidders after a set period. Also, any revenue derived from the sale of the ABC system cannot be used to fill budget holes, she said."

This looks like a step in the right direction.

Oh, and at John Converse.

3/1/2010 5:49:31 PM

I think it's a complete wrong step. Government contracts are inherently devices for corruption. They should disband the whole system and let private sellers (and north carolina citizens only) open their own shops. I'm ready to get a 2nd mortgage, sell my cars, boat and take out the biggest stinking loan I can get to open one or two liquor stores. Giving it out to the biggest bidder is horse shit.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/01/364941/nc-wants-to-know-worth-of-abc.html

Quote :

""Costs that must be evaluated are not simply financial," Perdue wrote in her letter, emphasizing the human costs of turning over the liquor system to private retailers."

There's Perdue's real intent - protect all her Democrat cronies.

3/1/2010 9:16:17 PM

bump

7/14/2010 9:28:00 PM

We could be Pennsylvania

7/14/2010 9:32:52 PM

Governor looking for 'serious action' after ABC report
July 14, 2010

Quote :

"Gov. Bev Perdue said she is looking for the Greensboro ABC board to take 'serious action' in the case of its general manager, who investigators say took gifts including free meals, concert tickets and travel-related expenses from liquor companies. The report, released by the North Carolina Alcohol Beverage Control Commission Tuesday, raises questions about Katie Alley, who has headed the Greensboro ABC Board since 2002. City liquor boards are independent units of local government that raise money for state and local government coffers. 'The evidence presented in this document that I believe has been really well done ... is very compelling,' Perdue said Wednesday as she left a speaking engagement in Winston-Salem, adding that she had read the report Tuesday night. Perdue has called on the state ABC Commission to impose tighter ethics guidelines and more vigorous oversight on local ABC boards following two high profile incidents in Charlotte and Wilmington during the past year. She also backed legislation passed this summer that gives the commission more powers to enforce ethics and accounting guidelines on local boards. Alley contends that some of the reports information is inaccurate and that in other cases she is being held to newly enacted ethics standards for actions that took place in 2007, 2008 and 2009, before those standards were in place. 'Whether the rules of the road have changed or not, we have a moral obligation and public trust obligation to really hold ourselves to a higher standard,' Perdue said. 'I'm not a lawyer; I'm not going to get into what the legal outcome of all this will be. I'm the woman who read the report and it looks bad.'"

http://tinyurl.com/24l37hc

I give Perdue credit for at at least speaking out on this issue. Someone other than WRAL needs to.

FWIW, it would be great if we could move past the whole "See? This is what 'local control' gets you!" thing here. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the current ABC system would be run better if the state had total control of it.

I think we know the real problem here: that government is in the alcohol sales business to begin with. But we still have rubes whose mentality on this issue is something to the effect of "Hard likker?! In the groshee store?! What in tarnation?!!1"

No doubt folks from other states come here and wonder what in the hell kind of alcohol sales system we're running. I normally wouldn't care what non-North Carolinians think on this issue--but this time they're right.

7/15/2010 3:03:55 AM

Trust me, Tennessee is worse.

7/15/2010 5:30:29 AM

Wal-Mart Liquor

7/15/2010 8:23:18 AM

Go ahead and privatize the damn thing already.

Quote :

"Two dozen ABC boards lost money in fiscal 2010 Twenty-four of the 163 local Alcoholic Beverage Control boards statewide lost money in the fiscal year that ended in June, according to audits released Wednesday. The results come as reforms passed by state lawmakers take effect for the ABC boards. The reforms include requiring all board members to receive budgeting and ethics training through a North Carolina community college. The reforms were prompted by ethics scandals involving ABC employees who drew excessive salaries and board members who accepted gifts from liquor distributors. The ABC boards that operated in the red included those in Angier, Garland, Kenansville, Maxton, Northampton County, Roseboro and Rowland. Losing money on operations means the local boards cannot distribute money to local governments, law enforcement agencies and alcohol education programs. The Wake County ABC Board is among the most profitable statewide, boasting a 15.6 percent profit margin. The Durham County ABC Board has a 6.1 percent profit margin, while the Orange County ABC Board's margin is 5.6 percent. Statewide, liquor sales were up 1.4 percent in the 2010 fiscal year, to $726.7 million. Expenses for the state-run system rose by 3.2 percent during the year, however. State ABC Commission Chairman Jon Williams said the sluggish economy has affected liquor sales, as consumers switch to cheaper brands or buy beer instead of liquor. A year ago, only nine local ABC boards operated at a loss. The state commission will work with the money-losing ABC boards to try different business strategies, Williams said. Continued losses could result in the state merging the operations into more profitable ones, he said."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8484923/

10/20/2010 9:40:00 PM

I'd be interested in seeing a list of those ABC Boards that lost money. I highly doubt we'll see privatization of liquor for a long time in this state. There is simply too much money being made by local governments for that to happen. Add that to the Christian Action League, MADD, and the NC Family Council and you have a major up hill battle toward privatization.

10/21/2010 12:29:40 AM

10/21/2010 12:45:35 AM

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

they lost money selling liquor??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

how is that even possible? Its not possible. You have to be the worst run organization in the world to lo... oh wait. its a government agency.

par for the course i guess.

10/21/2010 10:03:14 AM

Quote :

"The ABC boards that operated in the red included those in Angier, Garland, Kenansville, Maxton, Northampton County, Roseboro and Rowland."

I really hope the bolded one is the one in Gaston. Some of my friends went there a while back only to find the employees leaving a half hour early because they felt like closing up and going home. They were

10/21/2010 1:14:39 PM

I grew up in Tennessee and they have private liquor stores. I had never heard of an ABC store before I went to state. But we also didnt have car inspections, private property taxes, or state income tax.

10/21/2010 4:04:27 PM

^or running water?

10/21/2010 4:05:56 PM

or shoes

10/21/2010 4:07:32 PM

haha My dad and his side of the family are from the Tn valley so its kind of a running joke on how long it took them to get "amenities"



maybe private liquour sales there are from the Jack Daniel's lobby?





[Edited on October 21, 2010 at 4:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/21/2010 4:10:45 PM

We need alcohol law reforms. The gubment needs to be gitten out of muh pockets and away from muh booze.

10/21/2010 4:45:23 PM

I always got a kick out of the sheer weirdness of ABC laws across the nation. I go to rural Illinois and Missouri, and I can buy a fifth of Jack in a gas station. I go to uber-progressive Northampton, Massachusetts (the so-called San Francisco of the East), and I have to go to an ABC store to buy a friggin' beer.

10/21/2010 4:46:18 PM

Quote :

"they lost money selling liquor??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha how is that even possible? Its not possible. You have to be the worst run organization in the world to lo... oh wait. its a government agency. par for the course i guess. "

10/23/2010 4:37:03 PM

^^ it has nothing to do with the issues of "morality" like it does in the south. In the north its all about stuffing worthless government idiots where they dont belong.

[Edited on October 25, 2010 at 12:47 AM. Reason : altho in maine we sell it in the grocery stores. thx fer small mercies]

10/25/2010 12:46:17 AM

So the state runs a completely unnecessary system of liquor distribution points at an operating loss for what reason again?

The only part I disliked about moving from Michigan was not being able to buy 30 cases and not being able to buy a 5th from a 7-11 at 1am.

10/25/2010 12:55:11 AM

^^To be fair, the development/progression of ABC laws in NC isn't all about morality either.

Bootleggers were pretty influential, too. I think that's why things tend to get dryer as you head west.

10/25/2010 1:42:36 AM

Quote :

"So the state runs a completely unnecessary system of liquor distribution points at an operating loss for what reason again"

Christianity

10/25/2010 10:04:33 AM

Private profit from public losses.

10/25/2010 12:26:19 PM

^^ Not always. I think they do it in Massachusetts because they don't want vagrants running amok in their pristine neighborhoods.

10/25/2010 3:36:13 PM

Local ABC boards fight privatization to keep gravy train rolling
http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/8803822/

12/20/2010 8:16:58 PM

Quote :

"North Carolina ranks third among the 50 states and the District of Columbia in revenue per capita from the sale of spirits and 48th in per capita consumption."

If true, </thread>

Sounds like they need to abolish the county ABC boards, centralize ABC management, and close underperforming stores. That should provide some efficiencies to further increase revenues and put us closer to #1 and #51.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ?]

12/20/2010 9:26:51 PM

I'd like to see a competing statistic that doesn't come from an ABC lobbyist.

12/20/2010 9:28:47 PM

Sure, but if it turns out to be true...

12/20/2010 9:32:16 PM

Quote :

""We think control is a better idea than privatization," he said. "One hundred percent of the profit currently belongs to the people of North Carolina, and it goes to them. If the system were privatized, whoever that is that's operation is going to take some of that money.""

well if it belongs to us, how bout some decent sales on some high end liquor for Christmas gifts!!

Also I really hope this guy has an (R) next to his name and has to run for something later on so some opponent could bring out this quote out...

12/20/2010 11:11:44 PM

^fuckin commies.

If they privatize the profits will belong to the people of nc still.....just the ones running the liquor stores.

12/21/2010 4:07:14 AM

why would anyone want to privatize, just get rid of abc stores entirely!

12/21/2010 3:07:22 PM

That's what we're talking about. Eliminate the ABC, allow liquor to be sold either like beer and wine currently is, or maintain a separation and keep liquor sold only in liquor stores that would be privately operated.

Personally I'd like to eliminate all blue laws and allow anyone over the age of 18 to buy alcohol and let anyone who wants to sell it.

However, realistically that will never happen. What could happens is for NC to allow the sale of all spirits at any retailer who requests and maintains a license. There's no good reason to keep liquor out of grocery stores and convenience stores. The bulk purchasing power of places like Wal-Mart, Target, Food Lion, and Harris Teeter would keep prices low and get the state out of the business of peddling a vice. While we're on the topic, there's also no good reason not to allow alcohol sales on Sunday.

12/21/2010 3:54:01 PM

while i would enjoy cheaper alcohol, i don't understand why they can't tax it like they currently do and just sell it at places where other alcohol is sold.

12/21/2010 3:58:32 PM

They could, but all one has to do is look at the various ABC board salaries, who holds those offices, etc. and you'll see why it's so very unlikely to be eliminated. Why would you want to vote your brother-in-law, cousin, or buddy out of a 150k/year job when the people aren't really pushing you to do it?

You don't actually think career politicians are interested in doing what's financially or logically correct, do you?

12/21/2010 4:01:25 PM

Keep stories about the ridiculous salaries on the front page for long enough and you can get voters against it

12/21/2010 4:28:33 PM

Meh, people are far too fickle to keep up sustained outrage over something until the next election.

Remember how worked up people were over the "9/11 mosque"? How long did that last? And that had all the emotional heartstrings to tug on you could ever ask for. Nobody gives a shit, and nobody is going to make it an issue in the next election. There are more important things to bullshit posture about, like whether or not two men should be able to get married, or whether or not NC should legalize medicinal pot.

12/21/2010 4:33:35 PM

Quote :

"Go ahead and privatize the damn thing already."

This.

..even better, this:

Quote :

"Personally I'd like to eliminate all blue laws and allow anyone over the age of 18 to buy alcohol and let anyone who wants to sell it."

12/21/2010 4:35:54 PM

^^Nobody gave a shit for more than 10 minutes b/c it doesn't affect anyone in this country except the people of NYC.

12/23/2010 10:52:14 AM

Quote :

"Conservative group lobbies against privatizing liquor sales The Christian Action League of North Carolina is urging lawmakers to block any attempt to privatize the state-run liquor distribution system. The conservative group, which a group of churches created during the prohibition era to address alcohol policy, said dismantling the state Alcoholic Beverage Control system would hurt North Carolina more than help it. Gov. Beverly Perdue has said she's looking at having a private entity manage the ABC system to cut state costs and boost revenue. Numerous lawmakers have said they also want to privatize the system after perks like high salaries by local ABC officials and lavish dinners paid for by distillers were exposed. "No system of alcohol regulation is without its inefficiencies, corruptions, or failures," Rev. Mark Creech, the executive director of the Christian Action League, wrote in a Dec. 22 letter to lawmakers. "Alcohol regulation was never designed to stop all alcohol-oriented problems, but to provide the best system for order and decency." ..."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/8876323/

1/4/2011 2:33:50 PM

What a surprise.

1/4/2011 2:58:06 PM

^^ Want to bet these guys are the same types who got all up in arms over abortions being funded as part of the state health plan?

Yes, yes they were:

http://christianactionleague.org/news/wake-county-commissioners-reverse-elective-abortion-decision/

1/4/2011 6:22:03 PM