hahahahahahahahahahahaha

marko is a hate monger of unparalleled vitriol.

my what a wonderful world

11/3/2009 10:45:25 PM

The one time I met marko he called me a n-gger.

11/3/2009 11:52:28 PM

he gave me a beer once that had a noose made of napkins tied around it. I didn't think anything of it till later when he hanged a paper mache indian in effigy in my dorm room with "INJIN CHOP-CHOP TOMOHAWK" painted in cornmeal over it's chest

11/4/2009 12:12:41 AM

Quote :

"GrumpyGOP: The overriding point is that because they came around later, they aren't entitled to same interactions with the government that pre-Colombian tribes do. If they can get together, form a tribe, and get free shit, then any group of random Native Americans can do the same."

No, any group of random Native Americans cannot. They'll still have to go through the rigorous process the Lumbee Indians have, and it includes 110 fucking years to get recognized with benefits.

Anyway, it looks like they've been practicing their mix of American Indian stuff in the same region for a long while now. Their inability so far to meet arbitrary standards for tribalhood is the direct result of white action in the past and largely white action today.

No matter though. It looks like they may get it soon:

Quote :

"On January 6, 2009, US Representative Mike McIntyre introduced legislation (H.R. 31) intended to grant the Lumbee Indians federal recognition.[47] The bill has since garnered the support of over 180 co-sponsors,[48] including that of both North Carolina Senators (Richard Burr and Kay Hagan).[49] On June 3, 2009, the US House of Representatives voted 240 to 179 for federal recognition for the Lumbee tribe, acknowledging that they are the descendants of the Cheraw tribe. The vote will go on to the US Senate.[1] On October 22, 2009, the United States Senate Committee on Indian Affairs approved a bill for federal recognition of the Lumbee. The bill incudes a no-gaming clause.[50] The bill still needs approval by the full senate and the President before becoming law."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbee

I can't imagine anyone being opposed to this.

11/4/2009 12:58:16 AM

Quote :

"They'll still have to go through the rigorous process the Lumbee Indians have, and it includes 110 fucking years to get recognized with benefits."

Meaning what, exactly? If I get a bunch of random part-Indians together, do I just have to get them and their descendants to bitch for 110 years, and then they magically turn into a tribe?

And you can't imagine why I would be opposed to handing a group free money for no reason?

[Edited on November 4, 2009 at 1:36 AM. Reason : ]

11/4/2009 1:35:51 AM

Pretty much^

Squeaky Wheel gets the grease, and so on.


Lumbees aren't Indians. Seriously anyone who knows a damn thing about Robeson county, or has family from there, can tell you as much. Doesn't mean Fullers isn't the b-o-m-b though.


But whatever. They should probably do something to fix their terrible school dropout rates, teen pregnancies, and low incomes... and leave tribal recognition for another day.

11/4/2009 2:11:11 AM

First I think this picture is accurately depicting. As someone said, take it up wtih FSU for having the mascot (which btw the seminoles are fine with, its been proven in court). The picture shows native dress, and if you ever go to a FSU game, hes carrying a spear.

Who is this lady anyway? If you want to advertise all your "programs", then put an ad in or have the technician interview you/your group. I hate it when people pull this shit for publicity.

Im going to take offense to the UNC cartoon now just as its offensive to goats.
Maybe we should start a campaign to stop homecoming, as their posters are promoting beating up turtles. Im sure the environmentalists love that.

marko, keep them coming. I for one honestly enjoy them. They are a bit of school spirit, which sometimes I think we have little of.

11/4/2009 9:47:43 AM

Complaining about a cartoon... one that follows the same our mascot vs. their mascot theme. Were people taken by surprise when it came out?

When people latch onto non-issues like this it creates the potential to hurt their cause. It's like the boy who cried wolf. A real issue comes along and everyone is like " Oh, it's the cartoon guy ". It creates the impression that they are only taking issue just so they can get their name out there.

It sends me the signal that there are no real issues they need to deal with, so they dreamt up something to justify their existence/job. After all, if all their problems are solved there's no longer a need for them. Again, should there be any real issues that need to be dealt with they are just hurting their cause with nonsense like this.

11/4/2009 10:09:23 AM

More like the Lumbee pretendians.

From the same wikipedia article, it mentions that as a whole they're only like 12 percent native american, and almost equally split being of mixed white and black descent.

Quote :

"But whatever. They should probably do something to fix their terrible school dropout rates, teen pregnancies, and low incomes... and leave tribal recognition for another day."

That would mean they would have to inwardly reflect on themselves instead of finding a scapegoat. I don't see that happening.

11/4/2009 10:15:16 AM

Quote :

"The overriding point is that because they came around later, they aren't entitled to same interactions with the government that pre-Colombian tribes do. If they can get together, form a tribe, and get free shit, then any group of random Native Americans can do the same.""

I don't consider it an overriding point, because I view your point as neither sound or valid. The people who formed the lumbee were members of various tribes that existed pre-colombian, meaning the peoples of the lumbee experienced all of the same hardships experienced by all other tribes. from pre-colombian times until now they have retained tribal relationships and traditions. By this nature it would be impossible for "any group of random..." to form and petition for the same recognition. This aside, what free goodies is it that you believe federally recognized tribes receive?

Quote :

"Lumbees aren't Indians. Seriously anyone who knows a damn thing about Robeson county, or has family from there, can tell you as much. Doesn't mean Fullers isn't the b-o-m-b though."

What is it that you seem to know that no one else has privy to? Is it some knowledge gained from extensive anthropological research that you have performed? Perhaps its from your close relations with indians of various regions within the state and throughout the nation? Most likely it is that they don't fit into your narrow scope of what indians are based on what you've seen on television. but if you honestly have some mystic wisdom and unprecedented knowledge on the issue, please share.

Quote :

"From the same wikipedia article, it mentions that as a whole they're only like 12 percent native american, and almost equally split being of mixed white and black descent."

i haven't even looked at that article, but i'm going to go ahead and call that out as bullshit, given that you didn't take the time to quote it in your post. In all likelihood if such a claim is in the article it is either in an a purported controversy section or a postulated claim significantly lacking in credibility.

11/4/2009 10:37:33 AM

Quote :

"AxlBonBach: But whatever. They should probably do something to fix their terrible school dropout rates, teen pregnancies, and low incomes... and leave tribal recognition for another day."

Wait, high school dropouts and teen pregnancies?

Shit, toss in suicide and substance abuse, and you got yourself a real American Indian tribe.

Maybe some federal monies will help.

11/4/2009 11:26:40 AM

^ A lot of those issues have been attributed to the fact that the gov. in the past tried to isolate the native americans without giving the the resources to support and govern themselves. How exactly is giving them a recognized tribal status supposed to fix that? It seems like it would make things worse.

11/4/2009 11:34:44 AM

Quote :

"The people who formed the lumbee were members of various tribes that existed pre-colombian, meaning the peoples of the lumbee experienced all of the same hardships experienced by all other tribes."

As did any other random group of Native Americans.

There was a Cherokee Nation that experienced hardships from the arrival of the whites up until now, arguably. There was a Seminole tribe for which the same can be said. There were Iroquois, Sioux, and Apache. What there was not was a "Lumbee tribe."

Quote :

"This aside, what free goodies is it that you believe federally recognized tribes receive?"

No idea. My initial suspicion was that nobody would be whining so hard about recognition unless it came with some tangible benefit, and lo and behold, I was right. They repeatedly came petitioning Congress for money for education.

Then they just wanted money:

Quote :

"In 1987, the Lumbees petitioned the U.S. Department of the Interior for federal recognition, in a bid for financial benefits accorded recognized Native American tribes."

11/4/2009 11:40:30 AM

Quote :

"the lumbee have managed to keep their tribal affiliation, community attachment and rituals more than a large set of cherokee. these people are more native american than any Ashkenazi is jewish."

You've posted this before and again I'll point out:

Quote :

"The theory that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the non-Semitic converted Khazars was advocated by various racial theorists and antisemitic sources in the late-19th and 20th centuries, especially following the publication of Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.[31][32][33] Despite recent genetic evidence to the contrary,[1] and a lack of any real mainstream scholarly support,[34] this belief is still popular among antisemites.[35][36]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi#Relationship_with_other_Jews

[Edited on November 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM. Reason : .]

11/4/2009 12:18:57 PM

are the Haliwa-Saponis considered real indians by those of you supporting the Lumbees as real indians?

The only things the Lumbees will ever be federally recognized for is killing Micheal Jordan's dad.

11/4/2009 12:36:20 PM

So who wants to cough up this guy's email address so we can pummel him? Another PC loving pussy, ugh.

11/4/2009 1:02:41 PM

Stein I believe you to be mistaken. I cannot recall a moment where juxtaposed the authenticity of lumbee indians and the ashkenazi jewish. i would be interested in seeing where I, or any other person for that matter, made that comparison on a separate occasion.

Be that as it may, when making the parallel I was making no connection to khazars. I chose the two groups because both jews and indians have traditionally placed more importance on cultural integration rather than a by blood percentage when being considered who is a member of a native tribe or mihu yehudi. The reason i chose ashkenazi is that it is evident they have significant admixture than those traditionally from the middle east or other jews such as us mizrahi. If you're making a blood for blood comparison lumbees more accurately reflect traditional indian populations than ashkenazi do to traditional middle eastern populations.

i also chose this comparison because of the traditions and ceremonies associated with both cultures, and the fact that ashkenazi not only have a significantly diluted middle eastern bloodline but can also become non-practicing and people are willing to accept them as jews. by such regard there should be no issue recognizing lumbees as inidians.

this is why i hold the position lumbees still maintaining tradition and culture while having a less diluted bloodline are more indian than ashkenazi are jews, especially secular ones.

11/4/2009 1:10:21 PM

Quote :

"moron: ^ A lot of those issues have been attributed to the fact that the gov. in the past tried to isolate the native americans without giving the the resources to support and govern themselves. How exactly is giving them a recognized tribal status supposed to fix that? It seems like it would make things worse."

Totally with you on the first part. I wasn't trying to say American Indians are inherently suicidal alcoholics. It is clear that the extra difficulties they face as a group are the direct result of action by the US government. I mean, there is no group that has been screwed over time and again as much as them. When they come out against mascots and try do draw attention to their community and their issues, some people are like, "Wait, I thought we killed all you fuckers!" Or, like in this thread, they are dismissed as "retards" and "pretendians" and made the butt of jokes about having weaker immune systems:

Quote :

"GrumpyGOP: Also, if they didn't want to be mascots then they should have had better immune systems."

But don't get the thread wrong. We do feel really bad:

Quote :

"GrumpyGOP: And I get it, white people were dicks. I feel bad about it, I really do."

Anyway, I don't understand your second question, moron. They'll presumably get a little bit of federal money to do a little something for themselves. I mean, they're already suffering in poverty. They're already struggling with negative outcomes at rates comparable to other federally recognized tribes.

I don't know. I don't feel comfortable advising them on what they should. If they want to be recognized as an official tribe, so be it. I'm sure they've already weighed the consequences and determined that recognition is that important to them. It's their prerogative.

11/4/2009 1:24:48 PM

Quote :

"? Most likely it is that they don't fit into your narrow scope of what indians are based on what you've seen on television."

Yeah thats what it is.

Or the fact that my family is from Lumberton, has been for 150 years, and I've got "Lumbee" family members... as well as bonafide Cherokee. And sure, I love 'em both. Get along great. That doesn't make the Lumbees an Indian Tribe though.

So, yeah. I know this situation because I LIVE it, and have all my life. I'm not the one spouting shit I read on wikipedia. So back the fuck off before you make your hasty generalizations.

[Edited on November 4, 2009 at 1:32 PM. Reason : .]

11/4/2009 1:31:27 PM

Quote :

"But don't get the thread wrong. We do feel really bad"

You must live a very depressing life if you are incapable of making jokes about things that you think really are terrible. I can't even imagine being that serious all the time.

Take it from me, people respond better when you compensate for being fat and ugly by developing a sense of humor than they do when you compensate by being a self-righteous cunt.

Quote :

"When they come out against mascots and try do draw attention to their community and their issues, some people are like, "Wait, I thought we killed all you fuckers!" Or, like in this thread, they are dismissed as "retards" and "pretendians" and made the butt of jokes about having weaker immune systems:"

I would say that most of the reason for the comments in this thread come from the fact that some people got their panties in a wad about a cartoon involving two mascots. It's lame enough when they whine about the mascots in general, but these asshats were even worse, complaining about marko depicting the mascot. Neither he nor the Technician are responsible for our opponents calling themselves the Seminoles.

Lumbees, in turn, are getting so gleefully targeted in large part because the first asshat in question claimed to be one.

Quote :

"They'll presumably get a little bit of federal money to do a little something for themselves. I mean, they're already suffering in poverty. They're already struggling with negative outcomes at rates comparable to other federally recognized tribes."

I think there are plenty of people who would argue that handing free money to poor people rarely fixes their poverty, or the various consequences thereof.

Aside from that, yeah, they're poor, it sucks. Why should they get something extra that other poor people don't get?

Quote :

"I'm sure they've already weighed the consequences and determined that recognition is that important to them. It's their prerogative."

What consequences? They get Federal help with no downside. And of course it's their prerogative. They can piss and moan and beg all they want, just like it's my prerogative to say I don't want to hand free money to a made-up tribe that didn't come into being until centuries after the arrival of the white man.

11/4/2009 1:52:08 PM

Quote :

"Stein I believe you to be mistaken. I cannot recall a moment where juxtaposed the authenticity of lumbee indians and the ashkenazi jewish. i would be interested in seeing where I, or any other person for that matter, made that comparison on a separate occasion."

Sorry, I was confusing you with lafta who had previously made a comment about Ashkenazi Jews not being Jewish: http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=574837&page=1

11/4/2009 1:56:47 PM

^i think i was happier thinking i made some mistake rather than being mistook for lafta

AxlBonBach

Quote :

"So, yeah. I know this situation because I LIVE it, and have all my life. I'm not the one spouting shit I read on wikipedia. So back the fuck off before you make your hasty generalizations."

I haven't quoted or taken anything that I have found on wikipedia, excluding the federal definition of a native american, which I already knew but wanted to verify the wording.

Your family being from lumberton for 150 or 200 years really has no substance in this issue. There are people who were in germany for WW2 and deny the holocaust ever happened. Should we believe them too? It sounds more like 150 years of racial tension than 150 years of profound wisdom.

As for your family members of separate tribes. Do Koreans look like Japanese to you? Can you not tell a difference in the Thai vs the vietnamese? They aren't going to look the same.

You still have as of yet to supply any reasonable explanation as to why they are not indians and merely continue to parrot your position. we all know what you think, now provide us with some supporting facts rather than the general trite you provided above.

Quote :

"I think there are plenty of people who would argue that handing free money to poor people rarely fixes their poverty, or the various consequences thereof."

The majority of monies provided to federal tribes goes towards college education grants, which in turn can help mitigate their poverty. I believe grants are only for those who can trace to being 25% or more, rather than everyone in the tribe. everyone who is lumbee is not in the tribe nor is everyone in the tribe full lumbee. other smaller funds are directed towards a medicare program for the indians, but i believe that is based on the amount of money earned, and its not as if every doctor accepts it.

this free money manta is really getting old. more government waste is spent on office renovations of government officials than any federal aid the lumbees will get once recognized.

[Edited on November 4, 2009 at 2:20 PM. Reason : edits]

11/4/2009 2:12:28 PM

Quote :

"The majority of monies provided to federal tribes goes towards college education grants, which in turn can help mitigate their poverty."

There are perfectly good college grants that aren't inherently racist.

Quote :

"this free money manta is really getting old. more government waste is spent on office renovations of government officials than any federal aid the lumbees will get once recognized. "

Because one kind of waste exists, I can't oppose another type of waste coming into existence. Brilliant.

I don't like money getting wasted during renovations, either (which is not to say that all renovations are waste). To the extent I can, I will oppose it. I know, too, that's it's easier to stop a new waste from coming into existence than it is to end a waste once it has begun.

And you can say it's old all you want. They get free money for being a certain kind of brown.

11/4/2009 3:18:07 PM

I think we can all agree that the best scholarships are inherently racist.

11/4/2009 11:45:30 PM

loldoublepostsry

11/4/2009 11:46:23 PM

What is this first grade? why is everyone still calling them "indian"?

Quote :

"http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070501015538AAkzUhn"

that would be the case if there was already a greenland, but there wasn't so its fine.

[Edited on November 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason : Vnobody asked where a unique name came from.]

11/5/2009 12:05:48 AM

Probably the same reason they still call it "Greenland."

11/5/2009 12:07:53 AM

http://ncsu.edu/directory/?lastnametype=starts&lastname=locklear&firstnametype=starts&firstname=brett&emailaddresstype=equals&emailaddress=&addresstype=contains&address=&phonenumbertype=ends&phonenumber=&departmenttype=contains&department=&titletype=contains&title=&searchtype=both&matchnicks=on&includevcard=on&matchprevlast=on&order=mixed&style=normal&search=Search

11/5/2009 12:15:56 AM

Quote :

"The name Greenland comes from Scandinavian settlers. In the Icelandic sagas, it is said that Norwegian-born Erik the Red was exiled from Iceland for murder. He, along with his extended family and thralls, set out in ships to find the land that was rumoured to be to the northwest. After settling there, he named the land Grœnland ("Greenland") in the hope that the pleasant name would attract settlers"

If you're a troll, leave now.

11/5/2009 12:18:11 AM

West Indies ergo Indian. They weren't going to fucking change the name after they discovered it was incorrect. The term "American Indian" or even "Indian" when discussing the Sioux, Lakota, or Cherokee is at least as useful as "Native American" as a descriptor, just like "black" vs. "African American."

11/5/2009 12:21:14 AM

Black and African american aren't interchangeable though. Some blacks are African American. Some African Americans are black. All of neither are the other though. Black relates to skin color. African American is someone of African heritage that moves to the United States and becomes an American citizen.

The only type of "american indians" are indian-americans. We don't call pluto a planet anymore nor should we and its a disservice to all parties when you use one name to describe two completely different groups of people. Then the colonial arrogance makes you think its ok to continue calling them something that couldn't be more wrong just because its how you used to think it really was. Amazing.

11/5/2009 12:31:41 AM

Quote :

"African American is someone of African heritage that moves to the United States and becomes an American citizen. "

Well I'm glad you cleared that up for us. I'm sure most of black America will be glad to know that they aren't actually African American.

I'll go back to referring to all the folks I know with American Indian blood as being, just as an example, 1/4 redskin. I'm sure that'll work out well and won't be considered offensive.

My point was that a lot of shit sticks around, even inaccurate shit, because it is a widely accepted descriptor. It has nothing to do with "colonial arrogance."

11/5/2009 12:42:54 AM

^ "caucasian"

also, can somebody do something about that long link?

[Edited on November 5, 2009 at 12:55 AM. Reason : .]

11/5/2009 12:47:36 AM

Oh, and another thing. If it's the way that a particular group chooses to self identify, and many do self identify as American Indian, then perhaps you should shove off and not try to correct them even if that descriptor is inaccurate.

11/5/2009 12:47:59 AM

Quote :

"frican American is someone of African heritage that moves to the United States and becomes an American citizen. "

fuck it, even though you're just a troll, you're still full of shit with that line of reasoning. Colloquially, African American = Black.

A caucasian emigrating from Africa to the US cannot identify himself as an African-American. Technically speaking, by formal definition it may be true, but ultimately, in practice, it's not. It got this guy kicked out of med school.

11/5/2009 1:01:40 AM

screw it, it's not even worth the ridiculous stupidity in this thread. carry on.

[Edited on November 5, 2009 at 1:16 AM. Reason : ]

11/5/2009 1:15:36 AM

Quote :

"A caucasian emigrating from Africa to the US cannot identify himself as an African-American."

But he can be identified as someone from the Caucasus?

11/5/2009 3:00:28 AM

move them goalposts again dawg

11/5/2009 6:23:27 AM

Quote :

" African American = Black."

It's true and it's stupid. I've got a few acquaintances from Barbados, and they get called African-American all the freaking time. They have to fill out "African-American" on forms when it's the only option available. They're black, Caribbean, and Barbadan and that's it.

11/5/2009 7:17:48 AM

If your mascot can't be depicted in pictures getting beat up, then it's not a mascot.

11/5/2009 7:34:46 AM

^ That's true, but it's worth noting that FSU is NOT complaining about the cartoon. It's NCSU officials who are complaining about the cartoon.

11/5/2009 7:49:04 AM

very true: NCSU HATES YOU

never forget that, people

11/5/2009 11:41:38 AM

^^

it's nothing more than feigned indignation looking for malice that isn't there. A common tool of people with an axe to grind.

11/5/2009 1:53:10 PM

Quote :

"Their beef is with FSU, not NCSU."

yeah, that's their mascot...

11/5/2009 4:04:03 PM

Just think of how many times NCSU and our athletic rivals have offended the group of wolves.

Suggestive imagery, symbols and stereotypes negate value and the importance of wolves. Publication of such imagery propagates the continual degradation of wolves and prohibits the University from fulfilling its mission to all students. Think of the feelings of students such as Pecos Bill and the discriminatory undertones they must feel.

11/5/2009 4:26:03 PM