All I'm going to say is, unless you've lived in a muslim country, you just wouldn't understand the issues here.

Americans view everything in black and white...you either have freedom or you don't. But you don't realize American vales and 'freedoms' aren't for everyone.

[Edited on December 1, 2009 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2009 2:54:59 PM

^^Well, given the size of Switzerland. Point is communities have a right to decide what they want and given that this law is being passed with a majority vote, then this is what the Swiss want. Furthermore it still really isn't a gross violation of personal liberty for anyone as being Muslim and building a mosque is not illegal.

[Edited on December 1, 2009 at 2:56 PM. Reason : >.<]

12/1/2009 2:55:50 PM

^ I'm sure you've heard this concept before, but our constitution at least was designed to express the will of the majority, but protect the view of the minority. There is such a thing as the tyranny of the masses, which is one reason we have an an electoral college system.

Just because a majority want something a certain way, doesn't make it right, and it's not wrong to point this out.

And you're right that this not a "gross" violation of personal liberty, but it never is at first.

^^ it looks like, for once, it's not the Americans that are viewing things in black and white, but the muslim countries and soon maybe the swiss.

[Edited on December 1, 2009 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2009 2:59:48 PM

puppets are creepy anyways

12/1/2009 3:27:13 PM

Whenever I read the thread title a little voice in my head adds "...down the casbah waaaaaaay".

12/1/2009 3:36:43 PM

Quote :

"^ I'm sure you've heard this concept before, but our constitution at least was designed to express the will of the majority, but protect the view of the minority. There is such a thing as the tyranny of the masses, which is one reason we have an an electoral college system."

What sort of tyranny exactly is being imposed by banning minarets?

Lets do a check sheet:

Legal to be Muslim?

Yes.

Legal to practice Islam?

Yes.

Legal to build places of Islamic Worship?

Yes.

I don't exactly know what right of Muslims is being trampled on by the masses, especially since a majority of Mosques in Switzerland already don't have minarets. At best, you can argue that the swiss are open bigots, rather then closet bigots like most of the rest of the western world.

12/1/2009 3:50:25 PM

Quote :

"What sort of tyranny exactly is being imposed by banning minarets?"

The people who proposed and supported the ban said explicitly that they were doing it to suppress a certain political view in opposition to their own.

12/1/2009 3:55:28 PM

this is more of an HOA issue.

Tell those kids to the the fuck off my lawn.

12/1/2009 3:58:11 PM

^^^ Are you serious?

What sort of tyranny was being imposed with the Grandfather Clause? It was legal for a person to be black, and for a person to vote, so that must certainly be an okay law in your book, right?

12/1/2009 6:59:55 PM

i'm more upset by local municipalities forcing all business signs to be monochromatic.

12/2/2009 2:21:24 AM

^^are you serious? They aren't banning the crescent moon from being displayed on mosques or any of the things that matter that sandsanta listed. Banning the crescent moon would be the equivalent of banning crosses from being displayed on churches.

12/2/2009 1:09:02 PM

Quote :

"What sort of tyranny was being imposed with the Grandfather Clause? It was legal for a person to be black, and for a person to vote, so that must certainly be an okay law in your book, right?"

Will you stop throwing out idiotic American analogies(which barely make sense in this context to begin with) because it only highlights your extreme lack of understanding of different country.

GrumpyGOP, from the article:

Quote :

"minarets were a symbol of “the political will to take power” and establish Shariah, or religious law."

If their nation views minarets as a symbol of an extremely oppressive form of government, then why can't they ban that symbol? How is the banning of that symbol a form of tyranny? If you're going to argue that, then you're going to have an extremely hard time justifying practically every law that is in existence banning a wide variety of things, symbols included.

The community views minarets as a symbol of oppression and therefore outlaws them. If we replace minaret with Swastika, does your viewpoint change? They are both symbols representing ideas.

12/2/2009 2:09:51 PM

Quote :

"The community views minarets as a symbol of oppression and therefore outlaws them. If we replace minaret with Swastika, does your viewpoint change? They are both symbols representing ideas. "

Why would it? If the local skin heads want to hang swastikas outside their headquarters, that's their business.

12/2/2009 3:18:39 PM

aaaaaand the trolls come out.

12/2/2009 3:32:12 PM

What I dont undestand is how the minarets are offensive, but the rest of the architecture of the mosque or islam itself escapes banning.

The logic here is the swiss think minarets promote shariah law, so ban minarets. Great. Any sort of religious law is indeed retarded. But if minarets promote shariah law, why dont they consider the attached mosques just as harmful? Or why not all of Islam, since thats the root of the laws?

Blah blah yea its their own country they can do what they want, but it seems dumb. Its like banning outdoor lighting from baseball stadiums cause you dont like the DH.

12/2/2009 4:13:15 PM

im building a minaret and then putting a swastika and confederate flag on it. i dare you to touch it bitches.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 4:16 PM. Reason : 5]

12/2/2009 4:15:35 PM

a swasfedaret?

12/2/2009 4:23:36 PM

^^^ great point. but this isn't about logic... GTFO with that

12/2/2009 4:26:44 PM

exactly. let's stay on topic to the original point of this thread. to delegitamize an entire nation b/c it doesn't want a style of architecture that represents millenia of a murderous vengful population of human beings.

fucking swiss. i'm with you 100% moron

12/2/2009 4:37:11 PM

aaaaaand the trolls come out.

12/2/2009 4:39:03 PM

When Minarets Are Outlawed

Only Outlaws Will Have Minarets

12/2/2009 5:50:49 PM

There is a certain irony though that governments of Muslim nations are in uproar about this while at the same time cracking down on other religions or even different Muslim sects from building religious buildings, proselytizing, providing charity, or even just worshiping in extreme cases.

12/2/2009 10:11:48 PM

^ from the first page:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyS8sIUjmQ

this guy has an entirely rational explanation.

12/2/2009 10:21:22 PM

12/2/2009 11:42:32 PM

^^^I was saying this earlier. In most muslim countries you aren't allowed to display a cross on a church and you aren't allowed to (in some cases) build a church. So in my opinion they have no room to talk

12/3/2009 3:09:24 PM

Hey I know.

How about passing a consitutional amendment that bans Shariah law?

12/4/2009 9:35:10 AM

^ my guess is that it would be implicitly banned under their constitution, just as it would be under ours.

12/5/2009 12:49:33 PM

I don't care about the criticism from muslim countries, they have no room to speak.

But since the Swiss like to portray themselves as a liberal western democracy they do have to take the criticism from their fellow western nations.

12/5/2009 1:52:04 PM

^ 2nd best post, after Shaggy's.

12/5/2009 3:38:09 PM

This thread taught me what a minaret is.

And I was able to complete an old crossword puzzle.

12/5/2009 3:48:47 PM