Not really what I said but since you are an obvious troll I think I will leave my response as this as there is no point.

12/6/2009 12:30:58 PM

Some churches think God has all the money in the world and it trickles down eventually to those who truly need it. Don't worry about it.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2009 12:40:15 PM

but how can so many "christians" live completely opposite of the life Jesus intended? Thats one of the good thing about Catholic clergy at least with mother teresa being ideal.

12/6/2009 12:45:25 PM

What if churches spent more of their money on helping the poor and sick, rather than building ridiculously lavish buildings, paychecks to their managers (clergy), and recruitment efforts ?

Perhaps the government should require churches to have a certain mandatory charitable donation to maintain their tax exempt status.

12/6/2009 2:10:44 PM

Quote :

"the business model"

I think you just hit the nail on the head. Any large institution/organization, regardless of its function, must effectively plan and coordinate operations to remain viable. i.e. It needs a sustainable business model and needs to pay for good leaders.

Quote :

"How do the pastors and their families justify such a lavish lifestyle and such high pay"

Is receiving a high pay ethical or unethical? Should CEOs make tens of millions of dollars per year at the expense of the company? Again, take the "religious" part of the equation, and think of it like a large business. Then ask the same question and see if your answer remains the same. (If it does, welcome to one of my many mysteries of US culture).

Quote :

"I've made an observation about quite a few churches in the area, and I'm sure it applies to churches in other areas."

If you can research some facts behind this and post some links here, would be VERY curious on this myself. However, a few observations alone tends to produce a biased sample that is not representative of the population as a whole.

12/6/2009 3:05:12 PM

Quote :

"Is receiving a high pay ethical or unethical?"

[quote]

I suppose it's ethical as long you're getting a good ROI. When you start to affect the bottom line (shareholders/parishioners), it's time for a change of pay or a change of leadership or a change of ideals.

12/6/2009 8:03:46 PM

receiving high pay is directly condemned in the gospel i posted.

12/6/2009 8:45:17 PM

Most church goers don't tithe 10% of their Base salary. So the comment about a congregation of 250 giving 1mil/yr is BS. Heck I doubt most people in my small home town church even tithe 5% of their take home salary.

Pastors shouldn't be making more than 60-70k/yr imo.

12/6/2009 8:57:51 PM

^^ Most pastors can't be bothered with logic and the depressing Biblical passages.

12/6/2009 9:22:04 PM

Being rich does not automatically make you condemned. There is nothing wrong with success and, using the definition of having more than you need, being rich.

Christianity is a religion of redemption. Just because you have an exorbitant salary does not automatically disqualify you from getting into Heaven. Just because you have an exorbitant salary does not automatically make you a "bad person". I feel as though people who think this way are making a gross oversimplification of the camel verse. I'm not saying that I'm totally in the know about Christianity, but wouldn't you think the God who created the universe and everything in it would have thought this through?

12/7/2009 2:54:15 AM

Money does not automatically disqualify you from God's grace. But it will make it more unlikely you will come to salvation. A common reason for so much misinterpretation in the Bible is to take one passage out of context and try to use that one passage to prove or disprove a point, without looking at the whole body of work.

Jesus is absolutely saying that money will make it more difficult to get to Heaven. Why is this? Because money is a particularly dangerous worldly desire, or lust. Money is something that we covet and we can very easily put in front of loving God. It can lead to greater contentment in our sin (why do I need to turn from sin if I'm living this great life?)

Quote :

""Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." -I John 2:15-17"

So if money is a lust, it is sin. Which then needs to be recognized as such, and repented from. Only you and God know for sure...but rest assured, God knows. But again, it doesn't absolutely prevent you from being saved. Why? Because that would be a contradiction to Romans 10:13

Quote :

"for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”"

You have to take it in context. But I, for one, would be questioning the authenticity of a pastor living a lavish lifestyle because it is unquestionably a temptation that can lead to sin - quite a dangerous line to be walking when you are entrusted to lead a body of believers.

12/7/2009 3:42:15 AM

Sounds like God might be a Godless communist.

12/7/2009 3:56:24 AM

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl, she's basically the new lewoods

I feel that anyone who is truly concerned with the earnings of their pastor should directly ask their church about it. As a member of the church you have a right to know where your money is going.

The church I used to go to in Raleigh I know the minister drove a beater and wore regular, every day clothes, just like most of the congregation. I guess it made her feel more real than if she had been up there in flashy clothes and drove a BMW.

12/7/2009 6:01:34 AM

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl

Why do you guys still feed mambagrl



Seriously. How many times do we need to tell you that "she" is an alias?

12/7/2009 8:23:04 AM

The Bible's a lot like statistics. People are going to interpret it for their own personal gain or agenda.

12/7/2009 11:04:50 AM

I've always gone to Presbyterian churches, and the most I've seen a senior pastor make is $76,000 (my dad often ends up doing accounting work for the churches we've been a part of).

I've been told that the wife of a pastor is more likely to have a career of her own (more likely than the average wife) due to the pastor's schedule making him available to care for the family on weekdays.

[Edited on December 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason : gremmurs]

12/7/2009 11:40:36 AM

Huge problem, seen it lots of places... If I didn't know for certain that my Pastor was a genuinely humble guy, living in an average or less than average house, on a modest salary, I'm not entirely sure I could attend in good conscience.

With that said, we also don't pass the plate, so I'd venture to say that a church's message with regards to money is typically consistent. (If they're begging and constantly pressuring the congregation for cash as if they'll go under without this week's check, then you'll probably see the kind of excess mentioned in the original post.)

I'd also wager that there is a direct correlation between actually teaching the bible and these money / honesty problems...

12/7/2009 11:43:01 AM

Quote :

"Everyone knows most black pastors steal from the collection plate"

more of a chit chat comment. but i still laughed

12/7/2009 11:53:55 AM

Quote :

"I've been told that the wife of a pastor is more likely to have a career of her own (more likely than the average wife) due to the pastor's schedule making him available to care for the family on weekdays."

12/7/2009 2:11:41 PM