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1/14/2010 6:00:40 PM

http://www.cdc.gov/fieldtriage/pdf/triage%20scheme-a.pdf

There is the recently released guidelines for field triage of traumatic injuries. (NOTE: not all systems use this scheme yet and different EMS systems may use different triage protocols for hospital destinations.) As you can see this scheme does not say people with lacerations to the head need to be taken like a bat out of hell to the closest level 1 facility. Also it does not even mention probable concussions. Also just because a hospital is not a level 1 facility does mean it cannot handle something of this immense magnitude. If I recall correctly, and if you really need to know go look it up, but the differences between 1 and 2 for trauma centers is 1 must have a research element for conducting studies and 2 does not necessarily have the research part. The difference in 1 and 2 and the higher numbered ones is simply the types of specialists that must be on site, and even then should a specialist be needed they have transfer deals to move patients to the larger facilities.

As for the EMS response, it is important to find if someone wants treatment or is refusing. They must have permission before assessing and treating patients. There are many other things I bet they looked for and didn't really verbalize when they assessed you. Things like the size/response/equality in the pupils. Raccoon eyes and Battle's sign and maybe even Cushings triad.

1/14/2010 7:29:44 PM

^thanks for that link

I'm no expert on EMS procedure, which is why I asked about it in this thread. My situation falls into 2 or 3, but again, I have no medical background or knowledge so I can't make the determination. It does say that:

Quote :

"All penetrating injuries to head These patients should be transported preferentially to the highest level of care within the trauma system."

I was just looking for information since I figured some of you might have been involved in something similar. The mileage difference between the 2 hospitals is 6 miles. I appreciate those of you that did show concern.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 8:00 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 7:58:22 PM

I don't know if it has been said before but in most trauma cases if the victim is alert and talking he is doing reasonably well. That would be my 30 sec assumption.

1/14/2010 8:10:57 PM

Are you honestly that daft?

Quote :

"My situation falls into 2 or 3."

You have a cut that is barely even dripping on your shirt and you think it is in the same boat as mangled extremities, proximal amputation, and paralysis? or even a car hitting and running over a pedestrian while going faster than 20mph?

FFS, you were able to smoke a cigarette and snap "myspace pictures". Call it what it is, a low speed intersection collision, not falling through a meat grinder. Go ahead and post the accident photos...

1/14/2010 8:17:13 PM

state oz, I believe by penetrating they mean skull, not skin. As a brain infection is much more severe(deadly) than an infected wound at the head. Due to the BBB.

Dilated pupils, esp asymetric, is a quick indicator for increased pressure in the skull, as the pressure is pushing on the cranial nerve 3, along with impaired eye movements. One dilated pupil after an accident will get a drill in your head pretty quick.

1/14/2010 8:19:28 PM

Figures, I get part way through the thread and see where 1232849723 BEKEKE knows everything. Again.

1/14/2010 8:22:46 PM

To be classified as penetrating head trauma an injury would have to extend on through the dura mater, something that obviously didn't happen here.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 8:25 PM. Reason : photo.]

1/14/2010 8:24:12 PM

^You have this obsession with the minor details of my posts. Anyways, it's a little more than dripping blood, but it's not like Leatherface took a chainsaw to my neck. You do realize they cleaned me up a little in the hospital, right?





So I took some pics on my phone. It's not like I felt like reading or playing a game. The unpaid medical bills take this out of the realm of pointless. Whether you feel there should be some form of pain and suffering judgment is your personal opinion.

1/14/2010 8:28:12 PM

Still not seeing the covered in blood description...

Like I said, post the accident photos. I am sure if you had time to snap some myspace pics and light up a cig you had time to take some pictures of the wreck.

1/14/2010 8:40:12 PM

^all of these pictures are from the hospital

But since your mission is to discredit this entire story, I'll let you search for the accident report and other (non)relevant information. I'd expect this type of trolling in Chit Chat. I should redo this thread there, with a fresh prince ending.

1/14/2010 8:47:34 PM

I don't follow your logic with the whole "They cleaned me up" line you seem to like so much. By your own admission the photos were taken ~45 minutes after the fact. Yo are still wearing the same outfit as you were in the collision (No ER is going to have polo on hand for injured parties and the ambulance drivers arent goign to go through your stuff for a change of clothes). Taking these details into account, the blood in the pictures is the full extent of what made it to your clothing. I also note that you admit to sitting down, smoking a cigarette, and making a phone call. These are actions which require you to use your hands, not hold them over the wounds while applying pressure in order to stop bleeding, a simple first aid step that is all but human instinct. This indicates to me that it obviously wasn't severe bleeding, once again, corroborated by the amount of blood on your outfit. All in all, the extent of their "cleaning you up" was probably wiping the blood off your face so they could clean and dress the cut and letting you wash your hands.

1/14/2010 9:05:24 PM

Moox - They certainly wouldn't give me a polo with blood stains on it to wear.. and they wouldn't give me a polo to wear if there was still a good amount of bleeding going on. What I'm wearing in those pictures is what I was wearing during the accident. I'd say those clothes are covered in blood. Whatever definition you want to apply to the word 'covered' is fine, but it's acceptable to use descriptions like that on a not-so-serious message board.

Would you stand up after having something like this happen to you, or would you sit down? If you look on the pillow you can see a large blood stain. That didn't just occur from contact with my clothes.

With that said, what I really wanted out of this thread was some insight on EMS patient transfer procedures, insurance policy wording, probability of a concussion, and to see if anyone had dealt with collecting from a municipality. Thanks to those who provided some serious answers.

Final thought: The real problem here is that someone ran a red light and crashed into another car. There's no need to argue about the amount of blood in a camera phone pic or what a dirtbag I have for a lawyer.

1/14/2010 9:30:17 PM

I want to know how with $17k in repairs and a $19k check, you still manage to get $11.5k + the Vette. What happened to the $17k in repairs you said were done to the car?

Either way... good luck suing the lady, which will probably come to garnishing her illegal wages for the next 25 years.

^You can't sue the municipality as many have said, b/c the lady shouldn't have ran the light.
You can't sue the hospital, b/c they treated you well enough and YOU refused CAT scans.

Medical bills SUCK, I know. The best you can hope for is garnishing the lady's wages and maybe, MAYBE getting a good settlement from GEICO. And good luck getting the shit resolved with your um/uim at Allstate. I hate Allstate.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason : ^]

1/14/2010 9:59:55 PM

It was really strange. All in all, it was about 6 months before I got the car back, and even then it wasn't correct.

Geico originally estimated the damage at $4500. I didn't really feel comfortable with them handling it, so I let Allstate handle everything. They put it in some local garage there in Orlando and let them go to work. I made it clear from the beginning that I would rather it be totaled than fixed, but they believed they could fix it so I let them try.

I'd get promised a date that the car would be ready, and then there would be delays of needing more parts, waiting on parts to get there, can't locate certain parts, etc. The number just kept rising. Finally, they declared it was fixed, and it got back to NC. Almost immediately the problems began. There were parts missing, such as the centerpiece on the rims. It was really a crapshoot as to whether or not it would start at all. After 4 stays at a local dealership they basically said the car was fucked up pretty bad and needed significantly more repair. At this point, Allstate totaled it.

Of course they began with the lowball offers, but we finally agreed on 19. I bought it from them for 5500, and having a friend who owns a repair shop, was able to finish the repairs for around $2000 (I didn't have to pay for a lot of labor). In hindsight, I imagine that Allstate wishes they had just totaled it to begin with. A true error in my favor, I guess.

1/14/2010 10:09:31 PM

Quote :

"^You can't sue the municipality as many have said, b/c the lady shouldn't have ran the light. You can't sue the hospital, b/c they treated you well enough and YOU refused CAT scans. "

I didn't refuse any CAT scans. I don't know where you go that from.

There's not a lot, if anything, to get from Geico. She only had $10k in property.

1/14/2010 10:11:51 PM

Oh my b, I read the sentence wrong. You refused their surgeon.

See, I don't know why Allstate should have to pay; it was her fault. Geico should be eating her for lunch. But, they don't want to pony up the $$ either. I hate insurance.

1/14/2010 10:35:58 PM

The head and scalp are very vascular areas. When cut they will bleed and look kind of scary. However, they are nothing like the bleeding representative of a severe trauma, unless of course there was a severe trauma to the head. If there was any concern of blood lose they would've started a couple large bore IV's and started pumping in some fluids. With serious traumas your talking losing liters of blood and wringing blood out there clothes, not counting the specs of dried blood on your shirt trying to estimate what little amount you lost.

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting confused with the services a hospital overs. An ER isn't a hotel with a concierge who's going to go get your clothes dry cleaned. Their not responsible for how you get home. They don't have spare polo shirts just in case someone needs a fresh one to get them home. If the EMS had treated this like a major trauma, all your clothes would have been cut off of you before you got to the hospital and you'd be leaving in a hospital gown.

Another issue you need to read up on is Federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA). The hospital is required to assess people for emergent needs and to treat or transport the patient to care for that need, but does NOT have the obligation to treat things past what is an emergent need. I believe you wanting cosmetic surgery was probably not an emergency need and was elective on your part, and even if they had the capability to perform the surgery I doubt you will find they were required by law to.

1/14/2010 10:46:18 PM

What the hell happened to the 11k leftover from that geico check? You somehow get 11k in "free money" and you didn't pay your hospital bills?

1/14/2010 11:00:17 PM

Quote :

"What the hell happened to the 11k leftover from that geico check? You somehow get 11k in "free money" and you didn't pay your hospital bills?"

Excellent point.

1/14/2010 11:05:21 PM

^It went to buy another car. The vette wasn't mine, it was my brother's.

But if we want to get really technical about it, it was in my dad's name. So he bought the vette for me, we got it fixed, and now it's mine. He bought my brother a BMW with the leftover money.

I guess I should go ahead and disclose that I'm also on my dad's insurance.

You guys can keep picking apart my post, looking for anything that would be a conflicting or untrue statement, but I've kept it pretty simple. I'm not looking for legal advice. I already have an excellent (or dirtbag) lawyer and I'll go through the process with him. The only thing I wanted to discuss in this thread was any common experiences or input you guys might have.

1/14/2010 11:29:29 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting that your medical bills shouldn't be paid, but it is pretty lame that you or your lawyer want to (or are at least considering) sue people that had no fault in your situation.

If you can't collect from the woman, that sucks and hopefully you will be able to carry uninsured motorist coverage on your policy going forward.

1/15/2010 9:19:17 AM

I still dont see how udner flrodia law that they did not have some Boidily injury coverage

1/15/2010 2:33:49 PM

Quote :

"I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory? Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance. What type of insurance is required to purchase and maintain a Florida license plate and registration? Florida's minimum coverage is $10,000 personal injury protection (PIP) and $10,000 property damage liability (PDL) as long as you have a valid Florida license plate. What is “Personal Injury Protection” (PIP) insurance? Also called Florida No Fault Insurance, Personal Injury Protection (PIP) Insurance covers you – regardless of fault (i.e. whether or not you cause the crash) – up to the limits of your policy. Your PIP will also cover your child, members of your household, certain passengers who lack PIP Insurance as long as they do not own a vehicle. People riding in your vehicle who carry PIP will receive coverage under their own PIP for their injuries, and certain licensed drivers who drive your vehicle with your permission. PIP also covers your child if he or she suffers an injury while riding on a school bus. PIP coverage protects you while in someone else’s vehicle, as a pedestrian, or bicyclist if you suffer an injury in a crash involving a motor vehicle. The Florida Motor Vehicle No-Fault Law, requires all owner/registrants of a motor vehicle with four wheels or more to carry a minimum of $10,000 of Personal Injury Protection (PIP) and $10,000 of property damage liability (PDL) if you own a motor vehicle in Florida. Florida law requires you to maintain PIP/PDL insurance continuously throughout the licensing and registration period. What is " Bodily Injury Liability" (BIL) insurance? Bodily Injury Liability coverage pays for serious and permanent injury or death to others when you cause a crash involving your automobile. Your insurance company will pay for injuries up to the limits of your policy and provide legal representation for you if you get sued. In particular, your company pays for injuries caused by you or members of your family who live with you, even if they were driving someone else's vehicle. It may also cover others who drive your automobile with your permission. This coverage also provides you with legal defense in the event you are sued by the injured party. What is "Property Damage Liability" (PDL) insurance? This coverage pays for damages you or members of your family cause (and are liable for) to other people's property in a crash involving a motor vehicle."

http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html

1/15/2010 2:49:20 PM

my b for the double post... been over 30 minutes:

Quote :

"Financial Responsability laws, for when you are at fault (like the other driver), which means you have to carry BIL"

Not quite. You do not have to carry BIL unless certain requirements are met:

Quote :

"324.011 Purpose of chapter.--It is the intent of this chapter to recognize the existing privilege to own or operate a motor vehicle on the public streets and highways of this state when such vehicles are used with due consideration for others and their property, and to promote safety and provide financial security requirements for such owners or operators whose responsibility it is to recompense others for injury to person or property caused by the operation of a motor vehicle. Therefore, it is required herein that the operator of a motor vehicle involved in a crash or convicted of certain traffic offenses meeting the operative provisions of s. 324.051(2) shall respond for such damages and show proof of financial ability to respond for damages in future accidents as a requisite to his or her future exercise of such privileges."

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0324/ch0324.htm

So NOW the lady will HAVE to carry BIL, but she wasn't required to before (unless she was in a wreck that was her fualt before). That is why I mentioned before that I swear an NC driver's insurance in this case should act as PIP as the laws are determined by the state in which the accident occurs. If that is not the case then every FL tag/driver in NC could be riding around with NO [insurance] liability for any bodily harm they cause NC drivers.

[Edited on January 15, 2010 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2010 3:23:39 PM

ok i stoped reading about halfway through page 2

EMT did just about what any EMT would do
didnt need a plastic surgeon, but if he wanted one whatever its his call

TBI's are freaking weird things, i dont really see his story as being too loose, i've seen some really wierd stuff with head injuries. S/S can show up several months later.

If he wants to sue the insurance companies and he has had s/s like migranies and problems comprehending/rembering and headaches then he should get huge money. That will likely be a very long problem that will require some pretty intense treatment, and will also most likely be a detrement to him getting/keeping a job (check out disabillity services man).

1/15/2010 6:24:05 PM

Quote :

"Since then, I've been under the care of a neurologist and take several medications on a daily basis. I suffer from severe headaches which never occurred like this prior to the wreck. I also have trouble with comprehension, often having to read something as simple as page in a book several times before finally grasping what is said."

Well, being in constant pain could easily distract you from everyday tasks, and a neck injury could cause headaches and pain. See a specialist (a legit specialist) for neck and spinal problems and tell them what happened. It'll probably end up being a chiropractor's office or something. It'll cost you money out of pocket, but you seem to be baller enough to take care of yourself given your choice of car and clothing.

If you've legitimately noticed that you have had trouble turning your head from side to side and looking up and down (with a full range of flexibility, and without pain), and you didn't seek physical therapy after the accident, something may have healed incorrectly. Also, for an accident like that, you may not need to be on any medications for perceived neurological symptoms. Have you considered that you may have just seen the wrong specialist, and the medication they put you on has side effects may have fixed one problem while causing some others?

For some more non-doctor advice, you may have also been in shock from the accident and your injury, which is why you were unable to speak/act normally for hours. The reason your problem lasted all the way up through the second hospital may have to do with the fact that you were in a city as shitty as Orlando. I pulled over for a guy who wrecked his car (pulling out from a mcdonalds too fast, turned left too hard, lost control, slid off the other side of the road and power slid into a telephone pole), and he was acting like a bit of a loon. He was in shock, he forgot how to dial his phone and borrowed his friends phone (which is a weird coincidence given the other stuff mentioned in this thread), he was confused and couldn't answer but the most basic yes/no questions (i.e. "are you ok?" "yeah" "where do you work?" "i don't know..."), but was otherwise uninjured except for the fact he had ruined his brand new corvette (there was a thread about it in the garage actually). He just walked away from the accident.

It sounds like you've been talking with a lawyer who wants your business, and I'd recommend you just try to step back from the situation and think about what you need to do to fix your headaches and figure out if you need to see a physical therapist/chiropractor for what kinda sounds like an ignored neck injury (get a second opinion, and a third and fourth if necessary, don't just keep seeing the neurologist thinking they can fix your headaches as multiple things can cause you to have headaches that aren't related to permanent injuries from bumping your head on something). Don't worry about suing more parties beyond the insurance companies and the lady involved in the accident. Those are the only people who would be liable for giving you anything at all in this case. Everything else you experienced is just the cost of doing business. See if you can add medical insurance coverage (for yourself) to your vehicle insurance and consider seeing a lawyer that doesn't specialize in (read: prey upon) vehicle accidents. Realize that much of the medical expenses you're incurring now are simply the cost of doing business after something shitty happens to you, and that going sue-happy isn't going to help when you're suing in a state that doesn't require liability coverage for the other party. Move on with your life, take up masturbating to obscene and twisted internet pornography, and start a book club focused on lusty teen vampire novels. You'll feel better when you do, as you're getting nowhere fast right now.

As for everybody bitching about you taking pictures of yourself, so what? What do you people do when you're stuck in the hospital by yourself with a camera phone? He's a little vain. It's not like you people aren't.

1/15/2010 7:17:08 PM

Quote :

"It was over 30 stitches. At no point did I get any type of pain medication to help with any of this."

I had a tree top snap out on a dead tree I was cutting down one time, and it hit me in the head. I had a lot of blood on my face, shirt, and the ground, and it took 20 staples to stitch me up. The doctor told me that they intentionally don't give pain medication to people who may have a concussion because they want the person to be alert in case the symptoms get worse that night.

Regarding not getting taken to a level 1 trauma center, my wife picked me up and took me to urgent care. The doctors there told me that they were glad I didn't go to a hospital and tie up the medical services when something more critical could have come through the door. They were kind of shocked that I would willingly go to an urgent care facility with as much blood as I had on me, but it was clotting fairly well and I didn't feel like I was in any danger other than having some scarring.

Why does uninsured motorist insurance matter in the state of Florida? I was under the impression that a no-fault state would require you to use your own insurance company to pay for your vehicle and medical expenses. Did you not have full coverage on the car?

1/17/2010 4:11:12 PM