^^

But that's far too valid and rational a point for a thread about the City of Raleigh's decision making.

(Why did I bother with anything other than "^"? No one will read this post.) Thanks, shmorri2 ♥

[Edited on March 1, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : s]

[Edited on March 1, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : asd]

3/1/2010 4:29:11 PM

Welcome

[Edited on March 1, 2010 at 4:30 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2010 4:29:49 PM

synapse, I didn't expound because shit from 1989 is tough to find on the internet. but found it I did.
http://www.p2pays.org/ref/34/33564.pdf

This report is pretty much the catalyst for all of the recycling programs that started around 1990 and persist today. It grossly exaggerated the landfill crisis (which didn't and doesn't even exist) and the writer J Winston Porter has since admitted to pulling the numbers out of his ass.

HockeyRoman,
Certainly. But the point is don't feel like an asshole if you don't recycle. It's not the end of the world that they've been telling us for 20 years.

[Edited on March 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2010 4:31:35 PM

Quote :

"But the point is don't feel like an asshole if you don't recycle. "

No: it's "don't feel like an asshole if you don't recycle if your concern is landfill space".

I care somewhat about the landfill issue: mainly in terms of what goes in and the durability/biodegradable aspect; also, making sure stuff actually ends up in a landfill (as opposed to, say, a waterway). I'm not so worried about the space or lack thereof.

But the consumption of new, raw materials is also a significant issue, and is a very valid reason to recycle, and to feel like an asshole when one doesn't.

3/1/2010 4:40:24 PM

(going off of memory here)
Saving energy is also a poor reason to recycle. IIRC, it takes more energy to create recycled paper and plastic than it does to create "new" paper or plastic from raw materials. Depending on where this energy comes from (coal vs nuclear), you might be creating additional pollution by recycling.
Aluminum, however, is clearly recycle-worthy. Creating aluminum from raw materials is a nasty, nasty process, and it's much better on all fronts to recycle as much of it as possible.

3/1/2010 4:49:49 PM

^^
http://www.landfillenergy.com/provensolutions.asp
Maybe all that trash in the landfill is good for something after all. Maybe the best solution is a combination of recycling and throwing shit away that doesn't require people to feel bad about themselves for not sorting through their garbage like they're vagrants.

3/1/2010 5:09:20 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the best solution is a combination of recycling and throwing shit away that doesn't require people to feel bad about themselves for not sorting through their garbage like they're vagrants."

...If you exclude things like
- smarter/more efficient packaging
- less consumption overall
- more reuse in the home before disposal
- other behavioral changes

from consideration when deciding to name a superlative.

3/1/2010 5:21:17 PM

Just so I'm clear on the "ambrosia-feel-like-a-douche" scale, how many times must I reuse a plastic cup before throwing it away without feeling like a douche?

3/1/2010 6:10:01 PM

You know why I NEVER feel like a douche when I don't recycle? Because everyday I open the mailbox to find stacks of junk mail that doesn't even make it into the house because it goes straight into the garbage.

When the government steps in and cuts down on that shit then I'll step up with the other recycled items.

At least spam has a filter.

3/1/2010 6:54:54 PM

The break-even point for a ceramic coffee mug over using disposable polystyrene cups is about 1,000 uses.

3/1/2010 7:45:04 PM

Jeez, Raleigh, are you slow on this or what. Durham has even been doing this for awhile. You know when Durham has something that Raleigh doesn't, it's sad.

3/2/2010 12:10:09 AM

Raleigh's waste removal has been a joke for years.

I think it is probably the result of a class of people getting used to barely working and then being told to work really hard if they want to make a living.

In any case, the city keeps cutting funds in this department and the trash/recycling has gotten progressively worse every year for the past 6 years or so. I'll pay a few bucks more per year if it helps.

3/2/2010 12:17:32 AM

Quote :

"Saving energy is also a poor reason to recycle. IIRC, it takes more energy to create recycled paper and plastic than it does to create "new" paper or plastic from raw materials. Depending on where this energy comes from (coal vs nuclear), you might be creating additional pollution by recycling."

wired says this is a myth

[Edited on March 2, 2010 at 1:44 AM. Reason : don't feel like looking for the issue atm]

3/2/2010 1:37:47 AM

Quote :

"You know when Durham has something that Raleigh doesn't, it's sad."

Durham has a lot of things that Raleigh doesn't.

3/2/2010 9:07:21 AM

this thread is chock full of misinformation and the annoying douchebags that like to turn recycling into an emotional issue (whether they attempt to guilt-trip people into recycling or mock others for wanting to do it)...my favorite:

Quote :

"Also, the symbols on plastics don't mean they're recyclable."

you, sir, are a dumb fuck...ALL plastics are recyclable

the only allocation i'll give you is that this area does not have the facilities to recycle all plastics (polystyrene in particular), but the FACT is that all of them CAN be recycled

[Edited on March 2, 2010 at 9:20 AM. Reason : .]

3/2/2010 9:08:53 AM

Will they recycle the older, smaller bins?

3/2/2010 9:17:51 AM

quagmire, I like how you turned "you don't have to feel like an asshole" into "mocking others for wanting to [attempt to guilt-trip people into recycling]". Only one side of this debate is being emotional.

Secondly, I didn't imply that plastics aren't recyclable. Given enough energy ANYTHING IS RECYCLABLE. Just letting people realize that the arrows don't mean shit, and if you put a bottle in the recycling bin there's no guarantee that it will actually be recycled anyway. Even with the little arrows on it.

3/2/2010 9:25:10 AM

Quote :

"quagmire, I like how you turned "you don't have to feel like an asshole" into "mocking others for wanting to [attempt to guilt-trip people into recycling]". Only one side of this debate is being emotional."

hah, i'm not emotional about RECYCLING...i am, however, very amused when you come into a thread acting like you have a clue when the truth is that you're spewing as much misinformation as the side that perpetuates the idea that NOT recycling will destroy the world...i would hope your issue is naivete, but i suspect it's just ignorance

Quote :

"Just letting people realize that the arrows don't mean shit, and if you put a bottle in the recycling bin there's no guarantee that it will actually be recycled anyway. Even with the little arrows on it."

also incorrect, but thanks for playing...

1.) the arrows DO mean something, which i assume you know, but are pretending not to...they identify the plastic's composition, which is useful because:

2.) not all areas recycle all plastics because they either don't have the facilities available and/or it's not cost-effective (read: doesn't turn a profit for the recycling company)...BUT:

3.) BY LAW, any recycling facility approved for recycling a particular type AND with a contract to recycle said type MUST take the plastic if it is delivered to them, even if it's of a form that does not yield a profit

for example, plastic bottles that have smaller necks/openings than the bottle's body are profitable because the plastic content is higher for the size and weight of the piece...smaller pieces or those without relatively smaller necks than bodies are generally break-even or lose-money pieces because they contain much less material...but they are still recyclable and the company is still law- and contract-bound to process them

the bit on wake county's site about what you "can" and "cannot" recycle is part of their agreement with the recycling company to maximize the company's profit and does not violate the law since it would be the consumer's choice not to recycle certain containers

3/2/2010 9:37:02 AM

Holy semantics, batman.

I concede that I shouldn't have made the dig on the little stupid resin numbers on plastic bottles.

3/2/2010 10:55:13 AM

^ i know what you mean...i, too, like to pretend that i didn't mean what i said when i'm called out as being utterly wrong

3/2/2010 11:13:35 AM

Quote :

"Will they recycle the older, smaller bins?"

lol... Good question.

3/2/2010 11:35:37 AM

if they even take them, why wouldn't they recycle them? and if they don't and you don't want them, why can't you put them in the new bin?

3/2/2010 1:00:35 PM

Holy shit you are out of touch

3/2/2010 1:09:44 PM

There is a lot of dumb in this thread.

I work for the company (Sonoco) that handles Durham and Raleigh's recyclables. I'd like to respond to a lot of the comments, but do not have time right now.

Quote :

"Saving energy is also a poor reason to recycle. IIRC, it takes more energy to create recycled paper and plastic than it does to create "new" paper or plastic from raw materials. Depending on where this energy comes from (coal vs nuclear), you might be creating additional pollution by recycling. "

This (in general) is bullshit in terms of the paper side of things. I work in a paper recycling plant and have one of my degrees in Pulp and Paper. The amount of energy used to take a tree make it into pulp and then paper is greater than the energy to take recovered paper convert it to pulp and then back into paper.

There may be types of paper where using virgin fiber (i.e. tree) is more energy efficient that using recycled fiber, but it depends on the operation, virgin fiber type/source, electrical energy source, age of the plant/equipment, etc. Paper making is complex and requires a shit ton of capital to carry out and therefore making a blanket statement that recycling paper requires more energy is stupid.

3/2/2010 2:00:28 PM

Quote :

"This (in general) is bullshit in terms of the paper side of things. I work in a paper recycling plant and have one of my degrees in Pulp and Paper. The amount of energy used to take a tree make it into pulp and then paper is greater than the energy to take recovered paper convert it to pulp and then back into paper. There may be types of paper where using virgin fiber (i.e. tree) is more energy efficient that using recycled fiber, but it depends on the operation, virgin fiber type/source, electrical energy source, age of the plant/equipment, etc. Paper making is complex and requires a shit ton of capital to carry out and therefore making a blanket statement that recycling paper requires more energy is stupid."

Rock on. I'm more than happy to be wrong about that.

3/2/2010 2:28:26 PM

Well, to be fair, there is more to it than just the plant operations.

Which uses more energy: Cutting down 20 acres of trees and loading them onto semis or driving around every single street in Raleigh and picking up recyclables one bucket at a time by hand?

I honestly don't know which takes more energy when you consider all of the factors, but it's worthy of consideration.

3/2/2010 2:33:46 PM

^ The gas/manpower used to collect recyclables or to cut down trees is really minor in terms of the energy required to make actually make paper. Granted if you truly wanted to measure every aspect of the energy consumption, then yes you would need to take it back to square 1 where the raw material is sourced.

The significant energy consumption comes from the hundreds of motors that are running to power all of the equipment and the huge amounts of coal, and/or natural gas, and/or biomass, and/or black liquor used to run the boilers to generate steam for the paper machines to dry the paper.

For such a simple product, the process to make paper is involved. I think Modern Marvels should do a show on it.




[Edited on March 2, 2010 at 4:51 PM. Reason : gh]

3/2/2010 4:50:37 PM

damn there are tons of misinformed idiots in this thread

look people

just because you heard some idiot at your tea party utter some shit about recycling does not make it fact

please do some research before you bust in here talking like you think you know something. you're just making yourself look dumb.

if you wanna argue against recycling, fine. do so based on data, not your political/environmental/global warming ideology. that also makes you look dumb.

Quote :

"Which uses more energy: Cutting down 20 acres of trees and loading them onto semis or driving around every single street in Raleigh and picking up recyclables one bucket at a time by hand? I honestly don't know which takes more energy when you consider all of the factors, but it's worthy of consideration.."

it sure is. which is why it's already been considered, by people much smarter than you and me.

Quote :

"There is controversy on just how much energy is saved through recycling. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) states on its website that "a paper mill uses 40 percent less energy to make paper from recycled paper than it does to make paper from fresh lumber."[24] Critics often argue that in the overall processes, it can take more energy to produce recycled products than it does to dispose of them in traditional landfill methods. This argument is followed from the curbside collection of recyclables, which critics note is often done by a second waste truck. Recycling proponents point out that a second timber or logging truck is eliminated when paper is collected for recycling."

fyi: the quoted text in the first post of this thread points out the new trucks are automated, they won't be picked up by hand anymore.

3/2/2010 5:12:02 PM

Quote :

"i'd be interested to see this in action"

it is just a big arm that comes out from right behind the cab and grabs the trash can with a claw. They already use trucks like these for most of the garbage pick up.

3/2/2010 7:55:15 PM

They need to hurry up and bring the big cans dammit!

3/3/2010 10:51:43 PM

In durham they requested that people recycle the old containers. Fitting end.

The move to big bins is a great idea, I just hate it being every two weeks.

Durham doesn't recycle much of anything. Cans and bottles only, it seems. Plastic not shaped like bottles, regardless of their symbol, are not allowed. Real smart.

I hope wake county is better about that.

3/3/2010 11:54:06 PM

Quote :

"They need to hurry up and bring the big cans dammit!"

Someone stole my green bin a long time ago, so I'm really ready to have SOMETHING to put my recycling in besides cardboard beer boxes that my roommate gets every once in a while.

3/4/2010 12:00:55 AM

^ I WILL GIVE IT BACK ONCE I GET MY NEW ONE

3/4/2010 12:16:00 AM

When are they going to start recycling the shit that really needs to stay out of the landfills like plastic containers and styrofoam?

3/4/2010 9:05:51 AM

Quote :

"Will they recycle the older, smaller bins?"

i got mine in apex a few months ago and they didn't take my old bin. i left it out there empty beside the newer bin a few times, hoping it'd disappear, but no dice.

i ended up throwing it away :-/

[Edited on March 4, 2010 at 9:52 AM. Reason : i shoulda put it *in* the newer bin Ø]

3/4/2010 9:44:33 AM

^^ wat? Plastic containers are recycled. At least the main types (1s and 2s). The other types depend on the recycling center, etc. Read the thread before posting

Styrofoam should just be outlawed in my opinion. It fucks up the recycling process for paper and is hell in water systems.



[Edited on March 4, 2010 at 9:46 AM. Reason : cv]

3/4/2010 9:45:50 AM

Quote :

"damn there are tons of misinformed idiots in this thread look people just because you heard some idiot at your tea party utter some shit about recycling does not make it fact please do some research before you bust in here talking like you think you know something. you're just making yourself look dumb. if you wanna argue against recycling, fine. do so based on data, not your political/environmental/global warming ideology. that also makes you look dumb."

Quote :

"it sure is. which is why it's already been considered, by people much smarter than you and me."

Yeah, you just took what I said completely out of context. And I'm the one who looks dumb?

3/4/2010 10:03:12 AM

This is great news! My roommates and I fill up our recycling bin in usually 1-2 days and have to throw away the rest of the stuff Whereas we end up only going through 2-3 bags of trash per week.

I don't think the size of these new bins taking up space in the garage is anything to worry about. I doubt the actual footprint of the new bin is more than a one sqaure foot increase. Volume wise sure, but I don't think people have a lack of verticle space in their garages

I greatly look forward to getting our bin so we can recycle more stuff.

3/4/2010 11:06:32 AM

Quote :

"I ended up throwing it away :-/"

You shouldn't throw away useful things.

3/4/2010 11:57:28 AM

this is somewhat related, i suppose...but is the "recycling fee" on my water bill related to actual recycling (such as cans, bottles, paper, etc.) or something else? because we don't have recycling bins, nor do i see any neighborhood bins.

3/4/2010 1:07:24 PM

^ perhaps you should call about that one

3/4/2010 4:44:49 PM

^^look on the back of your bill for a definition of billing terms.

Also, how much is it? Is it flat, or is it a percentage?

It may be a fee associated with re-using or reclaiming water

[Edited on March 4, 2010 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ws]

3/4/2010 4:50:55 PM

bumps

6/11/2010 3:09:53 PM

does this mean we'll be getting them soon?????

6/11/2010 3:56:37 PM

Qntmfred will begin distribution of the carts next week.

6/11/2010 5:17:32 PM

*jackass rant hat on*

How are you using up that much stuff to fill up your recycling bins like that. On average i toss in 1 milk jug, 1 gallon juice jug, 1 cereal box, 1 paper towel core, and 1 tp core a week.

*jackass hat off*

seriously though, the big carts are nice, when we host parties and cook outs the beer bottle count gets a little nuts so its nice to have the space for them

6/11/2010 10:57:48 PM

I am not recycling at all until we get the new can.

6/12/2010 12:54:52 AM

^^ I usually fill mine up about 1/2 to 3/4 every 2 weeks. I didn't recycle as much stuff when we had the little bins because it was more of a "hassle".

6/12/2010 2:07:36 AM

no doubt peeps who recycle more are folks buying things like bread (it's in a plastic bag, right?) or takeout coffee, or the like.

Where I live now grocery stores put all kinds of veggies in clear plastic bags (fun fun) which we recycle, but it means that without doing anything other than cooking at home, you end up with a lot of ridiculous recyclable plastic junk. God forbid you buy any snack cake-type stuff; individually wrapped and then in a cardboard box (sometimes with a piece of cardboard as a filler for the empty space inside the box).

ad infinitum.

6/12/2010 2:47:40 AM

got a postcard in the mail on Thursday saying that my neighborhood would be part of phase 1 and will be getting new carts soon. There is also the option for a 65 gallon one ILO the 95 gallon if you prefer.

6/12/2010 7:52:06 AM