Quote :

"so because it is not easy enough, that justifies breaking the law?"

No, but it shows where the focus of government efforts in reforming immigration should be.

3/29/2010 1:41:06 PM

Quote :

"so because it is not easy enough, that justifies breaking the law?"

Once again, for many it's not that it's "not easy," it's that it's "fucking impossible."

When a law is that inane, unjust, unsustainable, and unenforceable, people are justified in breaking it. There are laws on the books all over the country that make it illegal to get your dick sucked. I bet if you lived in one of those areas you'd find all kinds of ways to justify breaking that law.

3/29/2010 2:17:19 PM

I was a legal immigrant and did it the hard way. Sounds like I should have waited for popular opinion to turn around so I could get in for $1,000 or whatever people have been posting. I've already paid close to $3,000 in fees, let alone all the private student loans (~$100k with ridiculous terms) I had to get because I couldn't qualify for federal stuff on a student visa.

I think legal immigration should be expanded greatly, but only for skilled/educated laborers. In addition, people from various countries should be encouraged to come here, not a mass exodus from Central America (before you call me racist, my father's from Latin America). If you look at Canada, they mostly let in educated people, even if they end up working at service jobs. In Toronto (where I used to live), more people were born outside of Canada than in it, but the vast majority of immigrants are educated people from India and China, as well as the Middle East. It's better for the country and the economy if you don't have to educate all these people and wind up with a vast majority of the first generation that can barely speak the language or is illiterate.

I have a very easy, cheap solution to drive out the illegals who are currently here, which doesn't reward their behavior, but neither party would support it for various reasons. First, either set up a national ID card with biometrics or link driver's licenses to pre-verified birth certificate/immigration records. That lets you know who's legal and who isn't. With some system for employers to log in and verify the aforementioned-records, businesses couldn't claim ignorance when hiring supposed-citizens that can't even speak English. Then, institute an exorbitant fine on any business that hires illegals, along with a reward for anyone who reports them. The fine would need to be sufficiently high, like $100,000 for the first offense, and $1 million for each offense after that, with no cap. The reward could be taken from the fine, perhaps at a rate of 50%, so that each person one turned in would give you $50k or $500k, assuming the business could pay for it. Watch how fast businesses would drop illegals. Without anyone willing to hire them, they'd move back on their own--*problem solved.* IANAL, but it's possible that you could even subpoena their biometrics as they cross back (and definitely should do this if they are turned in) so that they are ineligible for any of the future immigration reforms. With all the law-breakers out, the system could be reformed and a steady stream of increased, legal immigration could begin.

I like how all these very smart politicians have never thought of this. Even the people who are against illegal immigration want to build fences and bus people out. The best way to get people to do something is to make them want to do it. This would do that.

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ~]

3/29/2010 2:24:13 PM

^Hmm...One of the classes I took in law school was Immigration and Citizenship, and one of the big faults in the system is lack of feasibility, even for those who are highly qualified and educated. I don't know what they mean by "pay $1,000 and you can buy your way in." Even for those who have high level jobs secured, it still takes a while to get them processed, and frankly, for the average Joe it's just too expensive.

I will point out though that this will likely never happen and for good reason:

Quote :

"First, either set up a national ID card with biometrics or link driver's licenses to pre-verified birth certificate/immigration records."

People are too against a National ID to push something like this through. Even Real ID, which arguably just puts forth standards for state ID programs has received a lot of push back (for the record, I don't like REAL ID). Maybe just expand the database of verifiable I-9 forms?

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2010 2:31:57 PM

Sigh...there's always that one legal immigrant who comes in and says "Because I had a really hard time of it, everyone else should, too!"

At least this particular one has some new, terrible ideas that are incredibly unpopular for a variety of reasons. National ID cards with biometrics -- sweet! A new way for the government to track every single thing you do. A fine/reward system that encourages people to spy on their neighbors in a system reminiscent of secret police states. Always cool. A warm embrace of brain-drain -- why not draw the world's most educated people here and them make them work in service jobs? That's probably going to be useful in the long run for all parties involved. And, to top it off, a smug sense of superiority that only classy people like himself should be able to get in.

3/29/2010 2:38:43 PM

^^As I said, it would be unpopular for a variety of reasons. But don't kid yourself, the government can find you and control you whether there's a national ID card or not. I actually like RealID though. It was nice to see people actually asking for my Green Card etc. Since I was waiting for nearly a year from when I got the letter saying it would be 60 days to get it, it was quite a hassle to renew my DL. But it was a welcome refresher from the first time I got my license, when they barely checked my ID and just had me sit down and do the road signs test.

Sounds like you're the only one with a smug sense of superiority, GrumpyGOP. It seems like you enjoy tearing people down simply because they don't agree with you. All the politicians and many Americans say they oppose illegal immigration. I'm proposing a way of ending that. It sounds more like you support traditional GOP policy, which is to take advantage of poor, uneducated people that don't know any better and pay them shitty wages with no benefits. I prefer bringing in educated poeple who have demonstrated their desire and ability to learn, and will adapt better to society here, as well as be less likely to be influenced by people of your ilk.

As far as "making them work in service jobs," perhaps I should have clarified, but that's just an unfortunate by-product of having a great deal of legal immigration. Since construction and other sectors which normally take advantage of illegal immigration are unable to do so in Canada, many new immigrants have to work in service. I'd say they would prefer that (along with access to and benefits) than getting paid $5/hr to work a hard job and have to use the ER as their doctor as they do here.

On the plus side, most immigrants are turned off by the right-wing crazies and would tend to vote more for Democrats.

3/29/2010 3:44:17 PM

I am in favor of illegal immigration. Legal immigration would be better, but illegal immigration is an acceptable compromise. We as a nation get to be offensively racist while still allowing foreigners to enjoy America.

3/29/2010 3:55:28 PM

Quote :

"All the politicians and many Americans say they oppose illegal immigration. I'm proposing a way of ending that."

You're proposing a way to enable people to be exclusionary xenophobes. I'm proposing a way to make things right.

Quote :

"It sounds more like you support traditional GOP policy, which is to take advantage of poor, uneducated people that don't know any better and pay them shitty wages with no benefits."

You're the one who thinks that these people are too stupid to make their own decisions. A job making a little money here is better than no job (or a job making even less money) there. They're not too uneducated to be able to figure that out. Likewise they can recognize when one place provides more opportunities for their families than another. I want them to come up here and do what every single other group of "poor, uneducated" immigrants have done: work hard and let their kids be productive, integrated members of society.

"Demonstrated desire and ability to learn." Give me a break. I don't care if your dad is Cheech Marin, that shit is racist. You're wanting to bring in people that have had the opportunity to learn.

Go ahead and start the campaign to change the Statue of Liberty, I guess. "Bring me your rich, your college-educated, your small and well-to-do families of professionals."

---

On top of all this, you're missing the bigger problem, which isn't about education or wealth. It's about American xenophobia. If you let in a flood of foreign professionals from India and China, it won't be long before people start clamoring to kick out or stop letting in Indians or Chinese. The only reason people are so focused on Hispanics, legal or otherwise, is because there's so goddamn many of them. When it was tons of Irish, everybody hated the Micks. When it was boatloads of Italians, everybody hated the Dagos. When it was an army of Chinese, we outright banned letting in more Chinks. And as soon as it's a gaggle of Indians, we'll all turn on the dotheads.

Then some other group came to the fore and we all forgot how much we didn't like the groups that preceded it, to the point that we all celebrate St. Patrick's Day, love "The Godfather," and have a Chinese restaurant in every fucking town, city, hamlet, and burg in the country.

3/29/2010 4:00:53 PM

I oppose immigration from China or India because they might actually turk ma jerb.

3/29/2010 4:05:04 PM

^^ it's always important to have balance. there's always a push and pull. i think what you've described is a relatively healthy functioning society. we have proven to be great integrators of other cultures and we also have a built-in alarm system that automatically puts the breaks on if the american culture itself starts to feel overwhelmed. There's nothing wrong with that.

3/29/2010 4:42:43 PM

ibnuts:

"got mine, stfu"

3/29/2010 7:02:06 PM

Quote :

"My goal is to depopulate Mexico and much of south America in an attempt to reform those societies."

I am all for this. In 30 years when California does look like a Latin American country I can then sell my house and buy a ranch in Argentina or Bolivia.

3/29/2010 9:09:08 PM