Quote :

"hate to say, but, "AND??????" performance is performance, no?"

Sort of, but not really. If they're doing something that would destroy the car's drivetrain in a few thousand miles if the consumer did it then you're not going to see the benefit of it in your own driving.

And, launching the car is only a fraction of the total driving experience. In the real world you're going to be experiencing power from a roll the vast majority of the time. If there's no power from a roll it's going to feel weak regardless of how much grip those four tires can provide off the line.

10/1/2010 9:17:14 AM

^bingo!

10/1/2010 9:29:48 AM

wait wait wait. do you people actually care about 0-60 times? that's cute. performance, imo, is measured on a circuit, not a drag strip.

also, i have to disagree that something with 300 hp is underpowered these days. if they're improving the car then good for them.

there are many replacements for displacement...

10/1/2010 11:19:48 AM

yeah, especially for a car like that, capabilities around a circuit are what matters


but even if you want to talk straight-line, people who know cars don't talk 0-60. 1/4 mile is a better metric.

10/1/2010 11:31:41 AM

All I hear in this thread is

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

The new STI is fucking awesome. Go drive one.

10/1/2010 1:41:14 PM

Quote :

"also, i have to disagree that something with 300 hp is underpowered these days. if they're improving the car then good for them."

Well, what's so better about it? Power to weight ratio certainly hasn't improved as the car's increased weight.

10/1/2010 2:23:24 PM

springs were stiffened ~15% in the front and ~50% in the rear. larger anti roll bars. car has been lowered. more rigidity added to bushing etc...

review after review compliment the cars improved handling thanks to all of this. handling has always been the sti's week spot when compared to the evo. seems like they've got it worked out.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 2:31 PM. Reason : english]

10/1/2010 2:29:51 PM

I don't disagree with that at all. Just seems like that's very little progress over the years.

But who am I to criticize, I have an S2000

10/1/2010 2:44:04 PM

unless someone posts a list of exactly how modified the STI is that ran the sub 8:00 ring time, i'm going to assume it has a spliter and nothing else. In which case they have come a very long way.

10/1/2010 2:47:21 PM

Extreme amounts of unlikeliness that it's splitter only.

Also, POST PICTARS OF YOUR STi!1

10/1/2010 6:23:29 PM

news flash... clutch drops aren't the fastest way to 0-60 an awd car high rpm launches ( if i launch the legacy at 3400 rpm the turbo is spooled by the time the clutch is fully engaged) are the fastest 0-60 and you don't ruin anything especially if the clutch you have is made for it.


And the only reason the nose heavy evo handles at all is because of the computer controlled awd that i think is crap and wears out if you use it frequently. Its not really awd as much as front wheel drive with rear assist. but hey i'm a subaru guy and wouldn't trust mitsubishi reliability at all.

That being said i love how the new wrx comes with a legacy turbo housing and sti turbo guts... vf52 ftw.

And power from a roll isn't tke teg and integera guy... so honduh has roll on power? Last time i checked boosted 4 bangers had shit tons more torque than 8000-9000 rpm vtech pwr!!

I'm sorry but the sti has its following because its a good base for a car... they leave it to under steer because they know most morons panic when the rear steps out and hit the brakes. If you know how to drive, a set of springs and swaybars will set the car up neutral on light to medium throttle with lift off over steer and floor it to fix it under steer.

and the true measure of a car is its lap time guy... Yeah cause you really get to take turns at 80 irl. An sti you can drive closer to the limit on the street than almost any car because its SAFE to mash it. And i love my wet weather 0-60 in 5.0 flat.. its nice to be able to jump between whom ever i want when making a right on red.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 9:21 PM. Reason : Rant]

10/1/2010 9:10:44 PM

There's a car I'm thinking of that launches very well without AWD. I'm pretty sure anything short of a full clutch drop at redline would result in slipping the clutch on this certain 2wd car I'm thinking of, and that'd be the case even w/out an LSD. :o

10/1/2010 9:20:04 PM

Lol one of your rear engine wonders?

10/1/2010 9:22:25 PM

That should be it's official title, as referring to it as a "car" just doesn't... quite describe it.

No diluted steering feel, natural oversteer, not through suspension tuning, but pure physics, mmm.

OK OK, back to your regularly scheduled grocery getter on steroids topic.

10/1/2010 10:31:41 PM

Quote :

"And the only reason the nose heavy evo handles at all is because of the computer controlled awd that i think is crap and wears out if you use it frequently. Its not really awd as much as front wheel drive with rear assist. but hey i'm a subaru guy and wouldn't trust mitsubishi reliability at all. "

I had a IX, which had 60/40 weight distribution. The only computer assisting anything was in ABS. It handled fucking awesome. At or near the top of the list of best-handling cars that I've driven.

Quote :

" And power from a roll isn't tke teg and integera guy... so honduh has roll on power? Last time i checked boosted 4 bangers had shit tons more torque than 8000-9000 rpm vtech pwr!!"

1. He didn't say that his S2k was all ate up with power (although it is the exact opposite of an STi, in that it puts up dismal numbers from a dig, but still cuts solid lap times).

2. Yes, the Evo and STi make lots of torque, but that has nothing to do with his point about how their numbers from a dig make them appear faster than they will feel or be in any other situation (due to the AWD holeshot).

Quote :

"and the true measure of a car is its lap time guy... Yeah cause you really get to take turns at 80 irl. "

Well, uhh, yeah...the true measure of a sports car (or something as race-bred as an Evo or STi) pretty much is how fast it gets around a circuit (or rally course, or whatever). If you want something that offers good performance but is a sporty street car at heart, there is no shortage of options.

Quote :

"they leave it to under steer because they know most morons panic when the rear steps out and hit the brakes. If you know how to drive, a set of springs and swaybars will set the car up neutral on light to medium throttle with lift off over steer and floor it to fix it under steer. "

That's pretty lame for something with pretty hardcore sporting intentions. 911s, S2000s, Evos, and 'Vettes aren't neutered like that.

I like the STi line, and set out to buy one, but after driving an Evo, the handling and steering feel put it clearly above the Subaru. I'm not really loyal to either, but in general, the Evo has been the better execution of that sort of car.

10/2/2010 8:00:05 AM

^ is that based on your IX vs. a GD (04-07) or have you actually driven the new STI and compared it with the X?

[Edited on October 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason : ]

10/2/2010 10:17:17 AM

Haldex awd is computer controlled your Evo 9 had haldex

10/2/2010 10:24:37 AM

^^ the former. I was commenting on the U.S. market STi historically.

^ No, the IX is pretty much all mechanical. The active center differential (ACD) is not like a Haldex system; it has 3 modes (dry, wet, snow), but the only electronic wizardry involved there is a change of the setting of how long it takes for the center diff to unlock after a turn is initiated (if I remember correctly, it's simply triggered by the deflection of the steering wheel). It doesn't apportion torque or anything like that, and there certainly isn't any stability control.


[Edited on October 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM. Reason : I like STis...I'd buy one if I found a screaming deal. I think I'd prefer the Evo of any gen, though]

10/2/2010 10:41:13 AM

Quote :

"Also, POST PICTARS OF YOUR STi!1 "

i told you i'll clean it up tomorrow. seriously dirty after driving 7 hours through the rain.

Quote :

"a set of springs and swaybars will set the car up neutral on light to medium throttle with lift off over steer and floor it to fix it under steer."

the sti does notoriously understear. if it ever actually becomes an issue for me, i'll just put pss10s on it!

10/2/2010 11:04:59 AM

So the EVO's center diff is indeed computer controlled, taking into account many factors including steering angle, yaw angle, wheel speed differences, etc. I see why you say it's mechanical, because it feels that way...

God has a chariot, and in case of a handling emergency, when pure dynamics are needed, SOMEBODY CALL 911.

10/3/2010 1:08:55 AM

Oh yea, I'm going in a few hours to pick up a rear engined car, with two rather large turbos. Sadly, it's not for me, but I'll take a few pics.

10/3/2010 1:10:08 AM

0-60????

Real men measure 60' times.

10/3/2010 1:34:22 AM

so picked up an '08 STI very recently. at the request of Ahmet i cleaned it up and took some quick pictures. and by very recently i mean the pennsylvania temp tags are still on it

10/3/2010 3:19:33 PM

Very nice. Love the hatchback STi no matter what anyone else thinks of it.

10/3/2010 3:49:59 PM

Its pretty. my transmifferential is shot in my legacy cause the douche i bought it from put in a honda axle seal and it pissed all the fluid out on the 4 hour trip from SC where i bought it... so soon i'll have your diff, transmission and axles yay! DCCD controller and with my new turbo all i need is injectors and a tune and i'll have a legacy gt STI lol.
With

10/3/2010 4:52:29 PM

big T,

bring your junk out to our rallyX on sunday. 10/10/10 Ahmet can do drive with you. he's wanted to come out in the past, and now is his chance.

come get dirty.
thanks

10/3/2010 7:12:13 PM

might just have to do that. smsj though...

10/3/2010 7:22:01 PM

where be this rallyx?

10/3/2010 7:43:53 PM

this rallyX will be in rougemont, NC

more info here

http://thscc.com/rallycross/prereg_rallyx.php

this course is one of our best layouts. the area doesnt get rutted up as bad and its fairly smooth all the way around.

$35 if you prepay, or $40 if you pay at the race

10/3/2010 10:03:30 PM

i been out there in my 09 WRX. go do what your car was meant to do

10/4/2010 1:03:43 PM

2008 STi.

God help you. That's one unreliable car.

10/4/2010 8:30:37 PM

^ how so?

10/5/2010 7:03:07 AM

Quote :

"2008 STi. God help you. That's one unreliable car. "

please, tell me about all the troubles you had in your experience as an owner...

also my vanos blew up twice in my e46 ///. and i had 5 RMSs, and 3 IMS upgrades done in my 996. i am no stranger to unreliable cars.

10/5/2010 7:41:22 AM

Like my legacy some of them had problems cracking ringlands. I don't think arghx has owned one but it's pretty common. Although if yours is good now it's probably safe or could have been fixed allready. Shouldn't have any issues.

10/5/2010 8:43:56 AM

^ this part was pure sarcasm

Quote :

"please, tell me about all the troubles you had in your experience as an owner..."

i did my homework before i bought it. i'm aware of potential issues. that being said i'm under power train warranty for 20k more miles.

10/5/2010 9:20:22 AM

My sarcasm radar sucks in the morning

10/5/2010 9:29:10 AM

he was probably thinking about the oil starvation issues caused by bad pickups in the in '08 build date WRX's. pretty much if your car has made it past 3k miles without spinning a bearing you're in the clear.

10/5/2010 1:20:24 PM

blown motors (ringlands, oil pickups), hesitations and problems with the factory tune, blown turbos. Car and driver had to get a new shortblock in their long term test car: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q1/2008_subaru_impreza_wrx_sti-long-term_road_test_wrap-up

2008 is pretty much the worst year for the STi. I haven't owned one personally but I do tune Legacies and STi's. I have a friend who just blew the turbo on his stock 2005 STi with like 61k on the clock, and those don't even have the banjo bolt issue. I had no idea that turbo Subarus were so weak/unreliable until I started messing with them.

The IHI turbos are junk and on some models the pistons are glass. They're fun cars, and a significant portion of people never have any problems with them, but there's too much risk of shit going wrong for me to own one. Not when there are close competitors out there with a better record of reliability. Sadly enough, the Evo 8 - 10 have many flaws but at least the motors and turbos are bulletproof in comparison. And it's not like I have high expectations for this type of car. I've owned at least one rotary for 6 years...

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 5:37 PM. Reason : enjoy it for now, don't mod it and sell it as soon as you're off warranty]

10/5/2010 5:31:07 PM

Yes, they're horrendously unreliable. It's a miracle his car even made it home!11oneone.. We should all drive Corollas, the only way to be sure.

My somewhat highly modified WRX was completely problem free to past 220k miles. It was a happy car, sometimes I wish I still had something like that, but it was a little bit clingy feeling, the new STi feels quite a bit more substantial, though it's still very Japanese and feels "thin". Anyway, it looks just great, much better in person than in the pictures. Great color combo there sir, well done.

10/5/2010 7:11:36 PM