Quote :

"To me it look like she has a vast sense of entitlement to me"

i think this is the issue for me - not her school choice or major. i have a humanities degree and know tons of people that have liberal arts degrees and have found success. i don't devalue "bullshit" degrees. but you also need to be realistic and think about what you are getting yourself into. maybe she could have double majored in something that has a little more value in the job market - that way she'd have the degree she wanted and enjoyed but also a degree with which to market herself to employers.

also

Quote :

"and affording the full monthly payments would be a struggle"

WOULD BE a struggle? i mean, sorry but you might have to forego some shit you want to pay back your loans. it isn't going to be fun but when you take out loans don't you do it because you've told yourself your education is worth the sacrifice that is taking out loans and having to pay them back? or do we just not think that far ahead?

Quote :

" And while her job requires her to work nights and weekends sometimes, she probably should find a flexible second job to try to bring in a few extra hundred dollars a month."

uh yeah. getting a second job is probably a good idea. or maybe just quit the stupid photography gig and cocktail waitress - you can make enough to make your payments.

honestly i feel like this bitch is just whining and wants an easy solution/money handed to her on a platter.

6/2/2010 2:07:14 PM

Quote :

"or maybe just quit the stupid photography gig and cocktail waitress - you can make enough to make your payments. "

I hear people say this a lot, and I just have to call bullshit.

When the economy was good, jobs in the service industry were pretty easy to come by, but even then, in order to make pretty good money, you have to have some experience and sometimes get lucky getting a good job at the right place.

Now that the economy is in the shitter, finding even a below average job waiting tables/cocktailing/bartending is almost out of the question. I've got friends who have been bartending for years who can't find a job. Number one reason is because people who already have those jobs are not quitting because it's steady money. And people just aren't making quite as much money at those jobs as they use to either (with exceptions of course). I've got friends who were making a grand a weekend at the best bars downtown, who are now scraping by with a couple hundred dollars a week at the same bars...and it's happening at a lot of places.

I've worked at several bars/restaurants where recent under and post-grad students come to get jobs because they need to pay their loans/bills. Either they don't get hired because they have no experience, or they get hired and don't do well because they have no idea what they're doing. It's not that easy of an industry to break into...especially if you need to make enough money to pay back loans of over $600 a month, plus rent, plus bills. Anybody can get a job at the local cafe, but you might only make $50 a shift.

The service industry isn't what it use to be. And honestly, at lot of the "lowly" industries that people say "just get a job in soandso" aren't what they use to be either. And they sure as hell are going to have a tough time paying big school loans/rent/bills working retail...if there's a job available there.

I'm not saying this girl isn't exhausting all of her options, because she might not be. I'm just saying that even if she is, sometimes that's not even enough.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 2:17:05 PM

Quote :

"To me it look like she has a vast sense of entitlement to me. When life doesn't go her way at 26, she is looking for people to blame - the school, the banks, her own mom - even suggesting bankruptcy laws should be changed so she can get a free pass. Suck it up bitch."

Not to mention this bitch is just bouncing around between the most expensive cities in the country. New York, San Fran...what's next?

6/2/2010 2:22:50 PM

^^ that is true but there ARE jobs out there in the service industry - and it doesn't seem like she is even trying to supplement her income (even with a shitty $50 a day job).

or you can clean offices at night. i'm just saying there are a lot of secondary jobs one could get if they are in that dire of a situation. the economy DOES suck but it just seems like this girl wants an easy solution. having worked 2 jobs to make end meets and having worked some shitty ass jobs, it just seems like she's a big fat whiner.

yea - i mean maybe she is exhausting all her options, it just didn't seem like it from the article. it seems like she wants an easy out. i know people who are duke grads with unc mbas that have been laid off from 6 figure jobs in big cities and are now living at home, in raleigh trying to save money. not that i expect her parents to support her, the people i know in similar situations aren't supported by their parents, they have just moved to a less expensive city so that $$$ stretches a little bit more.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 2:23:39 PM

Quote :

"and it doesn't seem like she is even trying to supplement her income (even with a shitty $50 a day job)."

How do you know that??

Photographer's hours are weird and sometimes you get called on random jobs suddenly. The last thing a restaurant wants is some girl who has no idea what days/nights she can work.

I think we're assuming a lot about this girl. But everyone could be spot on...I'm just saying there is probably a lot of shit we don't know about.

6/2/2010 2:25:32 PM

you're right. it could be a false assumption. it just seems like if they were looking to make a pity story they'd SAY that she works 2 jobs and has done all this extra shit to TRY and remedy her situation. i guess absent that i am totally assuming she isn't doing everything she can. hopefully she is. and if she is, then it sucks. but she is also saying that meeting her monthly payments WOULD BE a struggle. i wish there was clarification on that. i mean - its a struggle for a lot of people, but they make it happen.



[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 2:27:09 PM

Quote :

"Like many middle-class families, Cortney Munna and her mother began the college selection process with a grim determination. They would do whatever they could to get Cortney into the best possible college, and they maintained a blind faith that the investment would be worth it."

best possible college = high cost

blind faith = there is a likely chance that it will not be worth it



sounds like these people don't know the meaning of the word "risk"

6/2/2010 2:29:15 PM

Quote :

"yea - i mean maybe she is exhausting all her options, it just didn't seem like it from the article. it seems like she wants an easy out. i know people who are duke grads with unc mbas that have been laid off from 6 figure jobs in big cities and are now living at home, in raleigh trying to save money. not that i expect her parents to support her, the people i know in similar situations aren't supported by their parents, they have just moved to a less expensive city so that $$$ stretches a little bit more."

I agree with that. However, it does mention how her Mom's hometown has nothing to offer her for a job.

I know if I went back to my hometown of Whiteville, about the only job I could get would be waiting tables at a local restaurant for about $30 a shift. There is absolute DICK in that town to do. And with this girl's off-the-wall major, she needs to stay in an area like San Fran for the best opportunity at getting a job in something she's qualified for.

Every situation is different. And shit...$22hour isn't that bad. At least she has that. I'd try to find something more stable and see if I could do that more on the side. But who knows how her boss is?? Just a lot of variables in this story we don't know about.

6/2/2010 2:29:38 PM

I remember this dude who use to work with me while I was interning at a residential group home in Raleigh, he had a Sociology degree from Duke(former football player) and was dumb as shit!


He applied for this high profile advertising job with some great firm in NY about 6 years ago, and he ended up getting the job and he graduated from Duke with like a 2.5 gpa! he told me that during the interview that the interviewer told him, "your body of work at Duke dont really qualify for this position,
but as an alum-we take of our own"..

talk about some god-damn luck.....this guy literally had no clue had to make an attachment to an email......

he had to pay for his first two years at Duke, but obtained a football scholarship his last two years....so im guessing he's one of those rare cases where going after the high profile education paid off.....lucky fuck.

6/2/2010 2:31:50 PM

Quote :

"Just a lot of variables in this story we don't know about."

def true. and i feel her pain as someone who also has loans that will have to be paid back starting this fall.

6/2/2010 2:34:02 PM

Quote :

"I know if I went back to my hometown of Whiteville, about the only job I could get would be waiting tables at a local restaurant for about $30 a shift. There is absolute DICK in that town to do. And with this girl's off-the-wall major, she needs to stay in an area like San Fran for the best opportunity at getting a job in something she's qualified for. Every situation is different. And shit...$22hour isn't that bad. At least she has that. I'd try to find something more stable and see if I could do that more on the side. But who knows how her boss is?? Just a lot of variables in this story we don't know about."

I don't want to come off as snotty and I'm not directing this at you, but I don't people who grew up in this area really understand just how expensive it is to live on your own in areas like San Francisco and New York City. $22 an hour is barely passable with little to no debt at all. And I highly doubt as a non-exempt worker she gets full benefits either.

Even if that is a steady 40-hour a week job it comes out to $45k before taxes (I'm not sure where this girl is living to only have to pay $700 in rent but it must be the size of a closet). EVERYTHING, from car insurance to rent to food to public transportation to health insurance is more expensive in these areas. Couple that with $97k of school loan debt and it's damn near impossible to make ends meet on that type of hourly wage without support.

I am with whoever said that if this girl has ANY options that don't include living in the most expensive two cities in the country, than she should fully examine them.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ^^lol, that has pretty much nothing at all to do with the topic. wtf?]

6/2/2010 2:36:39 PM

NYU's ridiculously overpriced.. I have a friend going there for film, which I think is a complete waste of money. More expensive does not always mean better education...

6/2/2010 2:45:47 PM

Quote :

"I don't want to come off as snotty and I'm not directing this at you, but I don't people who grew up in this area really understand just how expensive it is to live on your own in areas like San Francisco and New York City."

i know what you're saying, but i took issue with her statement as well

20 million people live in & around nyc and most of them aren't bankers

now, i can understand how it might be hard to earn a living to which a suburban white kid might be accustomed but i am not too impressed that she figured out a way to live in new york

figure out a way to live in new mexico with a women's studies degree, that would impress me more

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 2:52 PM. Reason : -]

6/2/2010 2:51:10 PM

Quote :

"To describe my degree as “women’s studies and religious studies” doesn’t really do it justice. I’m an alumna of the Gallatin School of Individualized Study. I created my own interdisciplinary program in collaboration with an adviser. It involved courses from a variety of departments, including religious studies, gender studies, sociology, psychology plus several interdisciplinary and writing seminars. I had to defend my concentration in front of a panel of professors before graduating."

Apparently math class wasn't a prereq. And who gets a $100K womens studies degree without solid work nailed down? I'm freaking out 'cause I have $30K in debt and I have a decent job with a degree in Computer Science

6/2/2010 3:01:04 PM

Quote :

"I don't want to come off as snotty and I'm not directing this at you, but I don't people who grew up in this area really understand just how expensive it is to live on your own in areas like San Francisco and New York City. $22 an hour is barely passable with little to no debt at all. And I highly doubt as a non-exempt worker she gets full benefits either."

I completely understand that. My comment just went to saying that $22/hr isn't that bad considering people who can't even find a job.

I know San Fran is expensive. I live in Charleston, and it isn't cheap to live here either (although not quite NYC or San Fran). I contemplated moving back home when I was in between bartending gigs and couldn't find a job as an attorney. But the only thing it would have saved me was rent money...because there just aren't any jobs back home that would allow me to SAVE any money.

I got lucky and found a great bartending gig making bank, and finally found a good opportunity at a law firm where I'm being brought along slowly to take over in the next couple years. Now I'm about to buy my first house. But if I had went home at the first sign of trouble, none of that would have ever happened.

Moving home is fine if your home also provides opportunity in your field...like people who grew up in Raleigh. But mine didn't. Especially considering I was licensed to practice law in South Carolina and my hometown is in North Carolina.

6/2/2010 3:20:33 PM

Quote :

"Sociology degree from Duke(former football player)"

You can get out of Duke with fewer than 100 hours in sociology, all their athletes do it and the above average ones graduate in three years. Duke is also the next best thing to IVY League schools in America, and they do look out for their own, regardless of degree, harsh/nice little reality depending on your stance.

I think we all knew people at NCSU that came from a private high school from Greensboro, WS, or CLT. Explain to me the point of sending your kid to a private school and pay 10K+ to send them to UNC/NCSU/App/ECU/Asheville when they can easily get accepted from the public high school system? If you're trying to get into Duke, Wake, or UVA, then that's understandable.

I'm not putting my neck out for 50K a year as with this NYU example unless there is some clear vision of the future that can substantiate it....or I'm an actor's relative and the 200k tuition bill for filmography is no big deal.

6/2/2010 3:27:24 PM

It sounds like she had a very specialized career in mind, and wasn't able to get into that field for some reason.

$22/hour isn't bad for a liberal artsy degree.

6/2/2010 3:46:08 PM

most liberal arts and social science careers require a higher degree

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 3:52 PM. Reason : maybe she'll go to san francisco state for that]

6/2/2010 3:50:22 PM

I don't think enough attention has been placed on the fact that she has ~$800 a month to live off of after rent and her loan payment. I don't care where you are, that's reasonable money.

It just may be time for this chick to suck it up and by some canned tuna for dinner a few nights a week, get with the peanut butter and jelly regiment, or learn to like Ramen god damn noodles. I have lived off less than that a month, and I have had to pay for all of those things mentioned above (car insurance, rent, food, school, gas, etc). The only thing I didn't pay was health insurance because I was in school.

Bitches feel entitled ITT

6/2/2010 3:53:54 PM

Quote :

"I think we all knew people at NCSU that came from a private high school from Greensboro, WS, or CLT. Explain to me the point of sending your kid to a private school and pay 10K+ to send them to UNC/NCSU/App/ECU/Asheville when they can easily get accepted from the public high school system? If you're trying to get into Duke, Wake, or UVA, then that's understandable. "

The underlying assumption in your statement is that private high schools offer some advantage over public high schools, whether it is lower student/teacher ratio, better teachers, whatever. Why would that advantage only be useful to students attempting to gain admittance to very competitive universities. Wouldn't each student be boosted, to a certain degree, from his or her own starting point? Also, you're basically saying that the only reason people send their kids to private high schools is in the interest of college prospects. Wrong. People do actually care about the student's experience. It is not merely a means to an end.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ]

6/2/2010 3:54:36 PM

Quote :

"I don't think enough attention has been placed on the fact that she has ~$800 a month to live off of after rent and her loan payment. I don't care where you are, that's reasonable money."

Not necessarily. Do we know she doesn't pay health insurance? Car insurance? Dental? Vision? In San Francisco, my health insurance was damn near $200/month before benefits kicked in. Car insurance near $130/month. That's nearly half of the rest of the money to live on in a month. Groceries are typically more expensive as well.

Could you live on $400/month and eat healthy every day of the month? Further, there are things you HAVE to be able to do to maintain a level of sanity -- whether it be gym, bars or other social engagements.

$800/month before mandatory costs and sanity costs is really not that much when you're living in a premium cost city.

6/2/2010 3:56:55 PM

^That's exactly the kind of entitlement I am talking about.

For four years of my college experience I did none of those things. Read the rest of my post. I paid for all that shit, except health insurance, with less money.

I didn't do any of those sanity keeping things you talked about. I didn't buy video games, I didn't go out, I didn't do shit. You'd be lucky if I ate dinner at a restaurant more than twice a month. You don't need those things to be sane. And as soon as people learn that they aren't entitled to those luxuries, the more those people will man the fuck up and take care of their responsibilities first, and their lifestyle second.

6/2/2010 4:00:22 PM

Quote :

"Duke is also the next best thing to IVY League schools in America, and they do look out for their own, regardless of degree, harsh/nice little reality depending on your stance. "

Contrastedly, you could go to State (in-state rates) for a shade more than 4.5 years for what it would cost you for your freshman year at Duke.

6/2/2010 4:08:31 PM

Quote :

"For four years of my college experience I did none of those things. Read the rest of my post. I paid for all that shit, except health insurance, with less money. "

Was this while you were in Raleigh?? Where you could find a decent place to rent for $250/$300 a month??

Her rent in San Fran is probably close to that $800. So she moves back home or somewhere more affordable...then she loses that only job she has. She has to go looking for another while she doesn't have any money coming in and still paying bills.

Or she can move back home where there are no jobs whatsoever.

Bottom line is that its near impossible to live somewhere like that off of $800 a month...even if you're eating ramen noodles, drinking water, with no internet or cable. And the other options of moving aren't that great either.

6/2/2010 4:21:05 PM

Quote :

" Could you live on $400/month and eat healthy every day of the month? Further, there are things you HAVE to be able to do to maintain a level of sanity -- whether it be gym, bars or other social engagements."

I live in dirt cheap Oregon, with no sales tax, but even if the cost of food was double there what it is here, You could eat well for under $400 a month. Yes, you have to cook and plan your meals, maybe only eating out 1-2 times a month and cut back on your meat eating, but its entirely possible to eat quality, healthy, delicious food for much less.

The problem isn't the position she's in, it's the state of mind she's in. All those things that you do to keep you sane, you can find cheaper alternatives if you suck it up and admit to yourself that you aren't in a position to live the lifestyle you want to live. You can get the same amount of pleasure from things you can afford by investing a little more thought and creativity into your day, and altering your perspective slightly.

EDIT:

Quote :

"Bottom line is that its near impossible to live somewhere like that off of $800 a month...even if you're eating ramen noodles, drinking water, with no internet or cable. And the other options of moving aren't that great either."

The 800$ is after she pays rent

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 4:28:40 PM

.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 4:35 PM. Reason : waited too long to hit post.]

6/2/2010 4:33:59 PM

^^I must have skimmed over that.

Still...my law school loans payments are $630 a month...and I owe less than what she owes.

So actually...she probably can't afford to make her loan payments and have any extra money to live off of.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 4:34:40 PM

What on earth goes through someone's mind that they think borrowing $50k a year for an undergraduate degree with few job prospects makes sense?

I really don't have any sympathy for her.

6/2/2010 4:42:48 PM

^^ Read the article, man... After her loan payments AND her rent, she has about 800 a month to live on with her 22/hr job.

6/2/2010 5:02:20 PM

Bitch needs to quit yappin on a cell phone, getting her hair done and make some sandwiches for lunch. Most people are walking around with that kind of debt once they buy a house anyway. It is easy to eat on 30-40 dollars a week, even in an expensive city, by simply learning to cook and not eating out or buying pre-packaged bs. If she drinks, smokes or does recreational drugs, that needs to go too. There are plenty of hobbies that keep you sane and healthy that are free. How about going for a walk or getting a book from the library instead of dvds and videogames?

6/2/2010 5:03:05 PM

haha what a dumb bitch

I have no sympathy for her

6/2/2010 6:01:14 PM

Quote :

"work ethic = money"

wrong.

Demand = Money

This girl is in low demand....so shes not making money.

6/2/2010 6:14:18 PM

Quote :

"I think we all knew people at NCSU that came from a private high school from Greensboro, WS, or CLT. Explain to me the point of sending your kid to a private school and pay 10K+ to send them to UNC/NCSU/App/ECU/Asheville when they can easily get accepted from the public high school system? If you're trying to get into Duke, Wake, or UVA, then that's understandable."

i went to a private high school in winston-salem, and my school's GPA system actually was a handicap in terms of getting into colleges compared to our peers in other schools in forsyth county. we only got an extra .5 for an honors course and 1.0 for an AP course versus 1.0 for honors and 2.0 for AP from public schools. it was supposed to be some kind of higher standards bullshit, and they ended up switching to the same scale as everyone else the year after i left once they got the hint after parents bitched for years.

point is, my parents didn't send me to that school to get me into an elite college or university because it didn't really help. the quality of the education was better, but it wasn't the kind of stepping stone you think it is.

6/2/2010 6:14:23 PM

Quote :

"Well said, it seems like people on NC State message boards often look down on CHASS and Management majors, but not everyone is cut out to be a chemistry, or engineering major."

Ummm, business? That can get you high-paying jobs.

I don't look down on people who study humanities and social sciences. In fact, I admire them for it.

However, I look down on her for the combination of studying a field with few and low-paying jobs, AND borrowing $100K.


Either borrow $100K and study something that will get you loads of money (business, engineering, whatever).

OR

Study a field with few and low-paying jobs but then go to a cheap (but still good) school.


If you do what she did then you have no right to complain because you know beforehand that your studies will land you a low-paying job but you still insist on going to an expensive school for which you have to borrow a shitload money, as much as what a few people would make combined in their whole working life in a poor country. (or as much as 3 x average US salary)

6/2/2010 6:44:27 PM

6/2/2010 7:22:53 PM

wow i think this is the most civil thread ive ever seen in chit chat!!

i think jbrick said it best

Quote :

"Kids are just going to have to realize that they can't go out of state for college. And if you can't afford to make payments on your undergrad loan, don't fucking go to grad school."

and i think people generally underestimate the role "luck" plays. i mean, you definitely have to be prepared and legit but being in the right place at the right time or even sitting next to the right person on an airplane can totally launch your career or change your life.

its like that quote, "luck is when preparation meets opportunity"

i think some people expect the opportunities to fly into their face, it MIGHT but you'd do better on the preparation end by networking and immersing yourself in the industry you want to be in

6/2/2010 8:32:35 PM

Quote :

"To describe my degree as “women’s studies and religious studies” doesn’t really do it justice. I’m an alumna of the Gallatin School of Individualized Study. I created my own interdisciplinary program in collaboration with an adviser. It involved courses from a variety of departments, including religious studies, gender studies, sociology, psychology plus several interdisciplinary and writing seminars. I had to defend my concentration in front of a panel of professors before graduating."

Whatever helps you sleep better knowing your degree is worthless, sweetie

6/2/2010 8:46:34 PM

^ lol I was just thinking that...

6/2/2010 8:47:49 PM

Quote :

"Car insurance near $130/month."

If she owns a car in NYC she's an idiot.

6/2/2010 8:51:52 PM

Quote :

" it seems like people on NC State message boards often look down on CHASS and Management majors"

you don't hear engineers and science majors bitching about how they make minimum wage and can't pay off the loans on their worthless degree.

6/2/2010 9:10:27 PM

^ Actually I hear that plenty in this economy, just not on this message board

6/2/2010 9:20:40 PM

Quote :

"worthless degree"

i still think people that throw this term around are being kind of ridiculous. i guess worth to you = money. only money. and nothing else. not to all people, though. that doesn't change the fact that she made an irresponsible decision and needs to stop bitching about it and DO something to at least attempt fix it. BUT humanities degrees aren't worthless. degrees that don't lead to some 6 figure job aren't worthless.

you people

6/2/2010 9:24:11 PM

Quote :

"It's largely a problem of baby-boomers and the way they've shaped society. When they were growing up, college was a privileged and difficult place to go to. They worked hard and succeeded, and college attendance rates increased dramatically. College has now become an "expected" thing for students to go to after high school, even when many of them aren't ready for it or would be better suited for other activities. It's as if entering the work force or picking up a trade has become "beneath" the middle class of suburbia (and it has). Thus, everyone just expects to go to college with no plan for their life, and they end up majoring in philosophy or religious studies (or film studies)."

wow, i think that is gods only post that i will ever agree with

6/2/2010 9:26:30 PM

^^ True, but a degree that leads you to nothing even remotely close to what you want to do is worthless imo. Granted, who knows if this chick even has a clue of what she wants to do for a career, but she probably should have put more thought in that before deciding on a degree.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 9:27 PM. Reason : s]

6/2/2010 9:27:02 PM

yes i agree with that.

on a somewhat quasi related note i know someone who has a daughter who is an attorney (and obviously went to law school) because she was an english major and her passion is writing but she needed a career to support her passion (she wants to write novels, or something). so there is someone who got a degree that wasn't necessarily going to lead to a job that she wanted (ny times best selling author? if that is a career choice haha) BUT i mean she is still getting to do what she likes on the side. and i guess if she hits it big she can give up the attorney gig. example of someone thinking through their plans.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 9:32 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 9:32:04 PM

I just remembered something else about student loan repayment. I think there used to be, and I am pretty sure there is now after the student loan reforms packaged in with the health care reform legislation, some sort of "income-based" repayment plan, where you only have to pay in the neighborhood of 15% of your income towards your loans. The big kicker, after 25 years any remaining debt is forgiven.

Shit, bitch, in the amount of time you spent bitching, whiny, moaning, and throwing people under the bus, you could have fixed your shit.

6/2/2010 10:02:44 PM

really? i thought that was only if you did like public service type work - teaching, govt jobs, etc? AND that is probably just for federal loans.

but i have no idea.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 10:04:46 PM

Quote :

"BUT humanities degrees aren't worthless. degrees that don't lead to some 6 figure job aren't worthless. "

a degree in women's studies is worthless on many levels, and going deeply into debt that you most likely won't pay back because you like history makes you a worthless individual.

6/2/2010 10:11:53 PM

What an idiot. I thought I felt guilty for my student loans...

6/2/2010 10:12:00 PM

set em up

6/2/2010 10:13:04 PM