[Edited on June 22, 2010 at 1:26 PM. Reason : doin it right Ø]

6/22/2010 1:21:59 PM

i clicked?

6/22/2010 1:23:12 PM

you clicked?

6/22/2010 1:25:12 PM

I just hate being corrected by a cashier that wasn't even born when they took camel cash away.

6/22/2010 1:29:07 PM

hahahaha, you people still smoke cigs....hahahahahah

6/22/2010 1:32:16 PM

Quote :

"Boeing and Airbus have an oligopoly. You could even say Anheuser Busch and Miller are one considering their market share in the US."

Yes. Corporatist oligopolies.

Quote :

"I really don't think tobacco companies constitute an oligopoly. You can certainly argue that government regulations make it difficult for new companies to enter the market, but that has to do with government regulation more than the tobacco companies."

Uh, the government is complicit in the formation of corporatist oligopolies. The government is really at fault, too, for allowing such oligopolies and monopolies to exist in the first place. Oligopolies and monopolies are completely counter to the real interests of actual capitalism.

Quote :

"And surely any business would love to be the only supplier of a product."

Lemme guess -- liberals educated you about capitalism and business?
Any business that wants to have a monopoly is 100% immoral, irresponsible, and not capitalist.
There is absolutely nothing noble or defensible about the goal of being the only supplier of a product.

Quote :

"I'm waiting for the day Philip Morris fires up their marijuana plant in Durham"

Not me. I'm waiting for the day every adult can legally grow and sell it themselves to any other adult. Fuck Philip Morris.

Quote :

"But you're doing it over the fucking Internet, behind a fucking computer screen, arguing with someone who, in your pissant mind, is a child. The fact that you continue to respond to someone who you think is childish, is immature."

You may have me there. But only if you're admitting to being immature in the first place.

Quote :

"Public corporations can fail, you fucktard"

Read my edit. I poorly worded that. But you should know what I mean. (of course, ignore that and instead present another straw-man, though, by all means...)

Quote :

"Because you keep referring to their privilege to sell tobacco as a right."

Again. For the last fucking time. I am not defending the right of public corporatist oligopolies to do anything -- they shouldn't even exist.

Quote :

"Tobacco, a substance that has been proven to kill people, is heavily regulated by the government."

Water kills too, neither should be singled out by the government. There is no just role of the government to regulate tobacco or discourage its use.

Quote :

"The government at any time could tell them that they have to stop selling tobacco"

Exactly. The government has zero authority to do so. And of course "they obviously won't, they make too much money from them" -- corporatism is a government creation. The whole thing is about money and power. Neither these companies nor the government is innocent here.

Quote :

"You clearly defended people's ability to buy tobacco. Did you not? You clearly feel that companies have a right to sell tobacco products, right? This clearly shows that you do support the companies existence."

There you go again with the straw-man bullshit. Private companies have the right to sell tobacco. The companies you're referring to are public corporatist oligopolies. They are not the same.

Quote :

"f you support the sale of tobacco, a product these companies market and sell to the public, you are inadvertently supporting Marlboro."

Not in the slightest. Marlboro is a public corporatist oligopoly that committed fraud and conspiracy. There is nothing to support.

Quote :

"I don't support the sale of tobacco"

Wow. Just wow. You are not a true American. Please leave the country.

Quote :

"You may not like the companies, but you clearly support them by maintaining that companies have a right to sell tobacco"

You just won't stop, will you? The companies you're talking about aren't private companies, like the ones I'm talking about. You cannot actually think you're making any sense...

Quote :

"You clearly don't like their power. You fucking said that you don't like their power when you referred to these companies as "corporate oligarchs that have a monopoly on that practice (of selling tobacco).""

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, YOU FUCKING IDIOT. GET IT IN YOUR DAMN HEAD ALREADY.

Quote :

"The sentence before that, you said "I defending the right of private entities to sell tobacco." "

And guess what? the companies you're talking about AREN'T PRIVATE ENTITIES. So I'm not talking about them. Are you even trying to not make blatant straw-men???* WTF?

Quote :

"So you obviously feel that private companies have a right to sell tobacco."

*I guess not. (you lack of logic is so painful, I need a beer.)

Quote :

"I know you like to get hung on private/public companies, because you feel that private companies are unable to fail (which is clearly bullshit, as they can and do fail)."

Again, that's based on my poorly worded use of "fail". I'm talking about limited liability granted from government fiat, vs. granted from actual people's money.

Quote :

"People did consent and people continue to consent. So, you don't like that they marketed cigarettes to little kids. Get the fuck over it."

Has nothing to do with marketing to kids. The companies knew the dangers of tobacco, and they conspired and lied about them. Consent implies that you haven't been lied to -- obviously if you don't have the facts because you've been lied to, you can't really consent to what you think you're consenting to. Consent these days is actual consent. Everyone should know the danger by now.

Quote :

"They got that power from being capitalists."

They got their power from the government being complicit in the creation of the public corporatist oligopoly that we have today.

Quote :

"Corporate oligarchies and monopolies arise from capitalism"

Well, now I know you're stupid. If you actually believe that, what's the point in arguing?

Quote :

"By who? You want the government to step in and put them out? That wouldn't be very capitalist of them if they started telling companies they can no longer exist..."

They aren't private companies. And corporate charters should have to have majority support from the people affected by them, else lose their (non-government fiat) charter. After all, the only reason they get that deal is because they supposedly help the people. In other words, if there weren't actual corporatist oligopolies, and instead actual private companies, boycotts would work., and wouldn't even be necessary if the private-sourced-limited liability dried up after people rejected their practices and/or crimes.

Quote :

"Why yes, yes it does. I'm sorry that you're too blind to see that monopolies and oligarchies can exist in free market capitalism."

No, no it doesn't. Monopolies and oligarchies cannot exist in free market capitalism. That is a failure of government. You're the one that's blind.


You're a lost cause.
You don't know what private is versus public.
You don't know what free market capitalism is.
You DON'T SUPPORT THE FREE SALE OF TOBACCO AMONG CONSENTING ADULTS.
You are the stupidest shit I've encountered in a while.
You are a total shame to the honor of America and freedom. I truly wouldn't miss you if you died.

(go ahead and respond, but I'm through with your bullshit.)



obligatory

Quote :

"PUBLIC CORPORATIST OLIGOPOLY"

6/22/2010 1:32:41 PM

Good trolling is supposed to take minimal effort, you all fail

6/22/2010 3:21:17 PM

Blue is a healthy color, everyone knows that.

6/22/2010 3:56:15 PM

Quote :

"public corporatist oligopolies"

And this is where you keep getting fucking hung up on. You don't like the companies, so you label them with a fucking term you don't even understand.

Do you even know what a fucking oligarchy is? It's a small group of people who have control over an institution, country or organization. I would hardly consider 23 to be a small group. That's actually a very large group, especially when you look at it from the perspective of the US auto-industry, when there are only 3 large corporations who wield a lot of power.

You also fail at recognizing that there are independent companies who sell other tobacco products within the US. They usually appeal to niche markets, but they exist nonetheless.

Quote :

"Water kills too, neither should be singled out by the government."

LOL! I'm just going to go to say that your example doesn't logically make sense. I'll let you worry about which fallacy it is. If you need me to explain, I will.

Quote :

"Exactly. The government has zero authority to do so."

The government has every authority to do so. I must have missed the part in the Constitution where it states that people can sell anything they want.

Quote :

"Private companies have the right to sell tobacco. The companies you're referring to are public corporatist oligopolies. They are not the same."

LOL! There is no straw-man here. You keep making irrelevant conclusions, an informal fallacy in itself. You keep making the statement that these companies are oligarchies and should not be allowed to exist, with nothing to substantiate the claim. It is you who is trying to create a difference where there is none.

Quote :

"Wow. Just wow. You are not a true American. Please leave the country."

What a troll. Why would I support the sale of a substance/plant/whatever that has no benefit to anyone (except the producer, of course), and that has harmed and killed millions of people?

Quote :

"The companies you're talking about aren't private companies, like the ones I'm talking about."

You're the only one who is making a big deal about a difference that is irrelevant. Public or private, they're all equal under the law.

Quote :

" And guess what? the companies you're talking about AREN'T PRIVATE ENTITIES. So I'm not talking about them. Are you even trying to not make blatant straw-men???* WTF?"

Keep up the ignoratio elenchi.

Quote :

"They got their power from the government being complicit in the creation of the public corporatist oligopoly that we have today."

LOL! You sound like a Christian. "I BELIEVE it, so it must be true." You're a fucking tool.

Quote :

"Well, now I know you're stupid. If you actually believe that, what's the point in arguing?"

The fact that you don't know this, shows that you don't know what happens under true capitalism. But then again, capitalism is just a some pipe dream that ultra-conservative loons like to hold onto.

Quote :

"In other words, if there weren't actual corporatist oligopolies, and instead actual private companies, boycotts would work., and wouldn't even be necessary if the private-sourced-limited liability dried up after people rejected their practices and/or crimes."

A boycott of the companies could work to destroy them. But that would mean everyone being "unAmerican," by having everyone quit smoking.

Quote :

"Monopolies and oligarchies cannot exist in free market capitalism."

LOL! In a free market capitalistic system, there is nothing to stop the creation of a monopoly or oligarchy, you dumb shit.

It is you who:
Is a lost cause.
Don't know what free market capitalism is.
Are the stupidest shit I've encountered ever.
Are a total shame to humanity. I hope you do die.

6/22/2010 10:21:14 PM

Quote :

"Can someone tell me if this troll session is worth reading so i can add to my topics to read at work?"

No, no it's not.

6/23/2010 4:48:28 AM

Quote :

"And this is where you keep getting fucking hung up on. You don't like the companies, so you label them with a fucking term you don't even understand. Do you even know what a fucking oligarchy is?"

You fail so hard it hurts. I'm not talking about oligarchies, you fucking idiot, I'm talking oligopolies.

Quote :

"I would hardly consider 23 to be a small group. That's actually a very large group, especially when you look at it from the perspective of the US auto-industry, when there are only 3 large corporations who wield a lot of power."

23 is very small for something that should really be in the 1000s. All 23 want nothing but their own monopoly. Where are the humble small-farmers that simply want to sell some quality tobacco to their neighbors and community? Where are they? Tell me.

Quote :

"You also fail at recognizing that there are independent companies who sell other tobacco products within the US. They usually appeal to niche markets, but they exist nonetheless."

And there should be more than 10 times what there are now.

Quote :

"The government has every authority to do so. I must have missed the part in the Constitution where it states that people can sell anything they want."

Wow. Really? Ever heard of the 9th Amendment? If the Constitution doesn't say they have the authority, then they don't have it. Such bans on private intrastate activity violate the autonomy of self and are blatantly unconstitutional. Bans on drugs and drug selling, bans on condoms and condom selling, bans on sex and sex selling, all violate the autonomy of self and are blatant violation of the 9th Amendment.

Quote :

"You keep making the statement that these companies are oligarchies"

No. I said they're oligopolies.

Quote :

"and should not be allowed to exist, with nothing to substantiate the claim"

Umm... (are you really this dumb?)
You do know monopolies are bad, right? So are oligopolies with the same effect.

Quote :

"Why would I support the sale of a substance/plant/whatever that has no benefit to anyone (except the producer, of course), and that has harmed and killed millions of people?"

Wow. I can't say wow enough. You are really in need of some serious help.

1) Tobacco does have benefits. It makes you alert and feel good, just to name a couple. Not enough benefits in your opinion to justify its health risks? Then make the personal choice not to use it. Your choice.

2) Tobacco hasn't harmed or killed anyone, ever. The voluntary use of tobacco by people is what harms them. Furthermore, people have an inalienable right to harm themselves. I'm sorry, but it really is as simple as "if you don't agree with this, you are not a real American."

3) Regardless of anything else, if one person wants to produce and sell something to someone else that wants to buy it, that is okay. That is what we call "freedom". To suggest that consenting adults should be prohibited from engaging in consensual acts with their own property is honestly the most unamerican thing you could possibly suggest. Why do I even respond to you if you're that far from understanding and appreciating freedom. Like I said earlier -- you are lost cause.

Quote :

"You're the only one who is making a big deal about a difference that is irrelevant. Public or private, they're all equal under the law."

You really don't get it, do you?

Quote :

"The fact that you don't know this, shows that you don't know what happens under true capitalism. But then again, capitalism is just a some pipe dream that ultra-conservative loons like to hold onto."

You see, you contradict yourself like there's nothing wrong with it.

Quote :

"A boycott of the companies could work to destroy them. But that would mean everyone being "unAmerican," by having everyone quit smoking"

You're not really addressing the point I was making, but anyway...
Why the fuck do you think a boycott is "having everyone quit smoking"? That sounds like a use of force -- have them stop?
Participation in a boycott is a choice by individuals -- know one is "having" them quit -- and it has nothing to do with anyone quiting smoking anyway. You make absolutely no sense.

Quote :

"LOL! In a free market capitalistic system, there is nothing to stop the creation of a monopoly or oligarchy, you dumb shit."

Right, just like in a free society, there's nothing to stop crime. (you dumb shit)


It is you who:
Is a lost cause.
Don't know what free market capitalism is.
Are the stupidest shit I've encountered ever.
Are a total shame to humanity. I hope you do die.


No one is reading this, and you're a hopeless piece of shit. This will be my last post in this thread.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:57 AM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 9:54:06 AM