Everybody in Sports Talk is in the "lunatic fringe". They are also known as "NC State fans".

We have the most unrealistic and overreacting fans in the country.

6/23/2010 5:25:09 PM

Quote :

"Like it or not, for soccer to catch on big in this country, the US needs to win something...its not gonna catch on just because the rest of the world likes it...winning cures everything"

it is catching on. there are many people who didn't care about soccer growing up who watch it now with more than just a passing interest. there are entire channels dedicated to the sport. it's progress is infinitely further than where it was 10 years ago, and even further than 20 years ago. sports don't just gain popularity over night. the first superbowl couldn't even fill half the stand, and the NFL and NBA all had hard times staying afloat in their formative years. the fact that leagues like the MLS haven't completely dissolved is a testament to the sports resiliency. you may not care for it, but there is a high probability that your children will, and so will their children (not that i advocate children having sex).

i also don't think the detractors understand the significance of making it to the round of 16. it is a big deal. you are one of the 16 best teams in the world. not the country. the world. i know you can say, well, this is america, and we only like being number 1. that's fine, but it's pretty goddamn impressive for a nation with zero long term history in a sport to go from the whipping boy of the world to a competitor within 20 years, and very few countries (including world powers) can consistently qualify for the world cup, and this will be the third time that the US has advanced to the knockout round in five tries.

So the success has been rather consistent, and is continuing to improve. you don't have to like it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that the overwhelming sentiment in the US is anti soccer when it is very clearly swinging in soccer's favor.

6/23/2010 8:26:01 PM

i think if we win our next couple games and make the Final 4, there will be very real and legit excitement from the "casual soccer fan"

i think what will be interesting, regardless of what we do for the rest of the WC, is to see the average americans opinion on soccer in 2-3 years...in other words, well after this WC has passed, and before the mainstream hype for the next one comes around

that will be a more telling indicator of the overall public perception of soccer

i still happen to think that most "casual soccer fans" won't really care about it unless its the WC or Olympics...which would still be improvement...but i don't think the MLS will catch on over the next few years, i think that will be something just for the diehards...and while this WC might gain some diehards, we will have to see the overall opinion a few years down the road

6/23/2010 8:29:11 PM

It was the most heart breaking game ever...too much for my heart to take at 8:00 am so I turned it off at minute 88:00


Worst. Thing. Ever.

6/23/2010 8:31:09 PM

why wait until a few years?


the barometer is already out there. there are plenty of people that follow the EPL, la liga, the champions league on off years of the world cup, as well as Copa America and the Eurocup as well as qualifiers and friendlies. I'm positive more people watch that than they did 20 years ago. if you don't like it, that's fine. but don't sit there and deny the sports progress when the facts are staring you in the face.


and the MLS ain't goin' nowhere. If it was gonna fold, it would have within a few years of inception. If it can ride this economy out (and it is) then it is here to stay. It's not nearly as good as Europe, but it's improving. You can't deny that.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:35 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 8:32:40 PM

Quote :

"why wait until a few years?"

because trying to gauge the average american's interest in soccer during the WC is gonna be crazy skewed by the fact that the WC is in progress

its gonna be a decent barometer for how many average citizens care for the WC, its not going to accurately represent how many people would care about the sport in say, 2 years

watching Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt in the last Olympics was entertaining, but a couple years later, I don't find myself really any more interested in swimming or track than I was a couple years before the last Olympics

6/23/2010 8:35:02 PM

Quote :

"but i don't think the MLS will catch on over the next few years"

The vast majority of dedicated US soccer fans don't care about the MLS

6/23/2010 8:36:08 PM

no, you missed my point. i'm saying that you could have easily looked into your very question 1 or 2 years ago to find the data you were looking for.



i just don't get how people who don't like it (for whatever reason) can sit back and confidently declare that the sport will "never make it" when it is very clearly growing.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:40 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 8:36:27 PM

what i'm hearing is that soccer is gaining popularity in this country, which i don't dispute...i don't know if its gaining as fast as you think it is, but who knows

but isnt there a problem when you say a lot of the fans, and newer fans, don't even get excited about the MLS or our own teams? if everybody is following UEFA or EPL, while that might increase the popularity, they're still depending on watching stuff overseas

if you want to someday be able to say that soccer is on par popularity wise in this country with a sport like basketball or hockey, you're going to have to have some league or organization in this country that has lots of fans and ratings...the MLS' attendance figures are still pretty pathetic

6/23/2010 8:40:52 PM

Better than Marlins games aha

And most are on the rise

http://www.mls-daily.com/2010/03/2010-mls-attendance.html

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:45 PM. Reason : Actually, the majority of those figures are pretty comparable with NBA/NHL numbers]

6/23/2010 8:42:06 PM

^damn, 37k for the sounders? that ain't bad for a new team.

Quote :

"but isnt there a problem when you say a lot of the fans, and newer fans, don't even get excited about the MLS or our own teams? "

short answer: no. why should it? they're still watching, aren't they? i watch the champions league, and la liga, and i keep tabs on the EPL. it's where the best talent is. the MLS will take care of itself, and i wouldn't be surprised if it slowly challenges european leagues within my lifetime (but i ain't gonna watch it until it does.) but the MLS knows that they will go bankrupt quickly if they try to compete with european leagues right out of the gate, so they're gonna bide their time. but this is all pretty moot, because i think you're changing your argument to hold on to the notion of soccer not being popular to the casual american fan. the MLS is not a barometer of the popularity of soccer within the US, so their ratings/attendance numbers/whatever is pretty irrelevent to your original stance.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 8:48:42 PM

i'm not changing the argument, i'm trying to look at the entire situation, quit being so defensive

if i watch ESPN or the local news, I can see highlights of sports like basketball, baseball, football, hockey...the big 4 sports in this country...let alone i dont even care about the hockey highlights...but i don't see much coverage of Latin American or European soccer leagues

dont you think that a successful domestic league would get more coverage in this country, hence would expose even more "casual soccer fans" or fringe fans to the sport?

^^think they could get those numbers for 41 games or 37 (however many home games an NHL team has)?

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2010 8:54:05 PM

Probably not, but seeing them average what they are is surprising, and definitely not pathetic

Quote :

"but i don't see much coverage of Latin American or European soccer leagues"

Actually, ESPN was sneaking in some Champions League highlights over the past few months (not to mention they air La Liga, EPL, and CL matches)

But I suspect that was only because of the World Cup

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:01 PM. Reason : So you said not much, I didn't read kill me now]

6/23/2010 8:57:55 PM

^^i wasn't getting defensive. sorry if it came off that way. i'm just shootin' holes in your theory. but you should at least be honest with yourself here. you're picking and choosing anecdotes to support your stance. the local news? c'mon, you live in raleigh (i think) of course they aren't going to have MLS highlights because they don't have a team. i absolutely agree that a strong domestic league would help the sport. i think, long term, that the goal is to have the top flight league of choice for the best talent in the world (or, at least it should be). but you can't just challenge leagues with hundreds of years of history overnight. european basketball leagues understand this, and so does the MLS. but from what i can tell (i used to watch the MLS, by the way) the quality of the MLS is in fact improving. the coverage, the sustained attendance/merchandise sales/whatever will come with time, because the interest from the casual fan will inevitably drive up the demand.

Quote :

"think they could get those numbers for 41 games or 37 (however many home games an NHL team has)?"

couldn't you ask that same question of the NFL? that's not a knock on the NFL, they very well could get high numbers on a weekday, just sayin' that the league schedule is what it is. no real point on theorizing about it.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 8:59:57 PM

Charlotte, not Raleigh, but yeah, no local MLS team

However I can see plenty of highlights from the big 4 sports on the local news, and I can watch highlights of those sports ad nauseum on ESPN...same with golf and racing...not so much with soccer (outside the WC obviously)

And I'm not trying to say soccer isn't growing, simply that I'm skeptical it will ever reach the popularity in this country at a collegiate or professional level of any of the other big 4 sports

^good point about the NFL...one of the things that makes the NFL so great is that its basically a once a week thing...you don't have to worry about going to a game on a Tuesday night when you don't really feel like it...an 80 game NFL season would also theoretically lead to about 100% of the players being injured...same thing in a sense with NASCAR from a "once a week" perspective...but pro and college football games draw 50,000 - 110,000 fans depending on the venue

also, and slightly unrelated, whatever increase in soccer popularity from the resurging latin american population, it will probably be matched by increase in baseball popularity

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:19 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2010 9:15:05 PM

at the college level, no. a player should already have some World Cup experience by the time they are 22, really. but only time will tell about the professional level (but i'd wager that the "big 4" was once the "big 3." no reason to think it can't become the "big 5".)

6/23/2010 9:27:58 PM

what kind of age range do soccer players have? for example, most football players with the exceptions of quarterback cant play past their mid 30s from wear and tear...obviously golfers can go much longer, etc

what kind of "prime" age is there for soccer, and at what age to players become too old to compete?

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:30 PM. Reason : 88088]

6/23/2010 9:29:48 PM

Depends on the competitiveness of the league. Australia's squad was in their late 30s, but they don't have a large crop of players to choose from. Usually, unless players are exceptional, they don't play on international teams past their early 30s. And most elite club teams want players in their 20s. You'd find the older players on lower end club teams.

If you have a group of players too young, you risk having a lack of experience. Too old, and they can be outclassed by younger players. Mid 20s is good.

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 9:32:13 PM

As more and more Mexicanos move to America, soccer's popularity is going to rise like Putin's head above Alaska.

6/23/2010 9:52:41 PM

^^^lionel messi is the world player of the year. he's 22. cristiano ronaldo was around the same age, i believe when he got the nod. thierry henry is 32, and only saw limited minutes for france this year (and we all know how well they did). a player lasting until his late thirties is a bit rare for international competition. great players can see around 3 world cup's (and be a major contributor in 2) in their career depending on their country (and really, depending on when they were born). obviously each scenario is different, but that's a rough estimate. i'd say that the age comparisons are equal to that of the average nba player, minus 5 years (subtract 5 years from your nba player to calculate when he would be in his prime for soccer). soccer players get started early, too, jumping to the pros when the average person is still in high school

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 10:30 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 10:03:24 PM

AHA, my friend told me about this game.

"It was so exciting. We finally scored during extra time and won 1-0."

And I was like, "WTF?"

6/23/2010 10:05:04 PM

same friend who told you about Kendrick "Big Baby" Davis?

6/23/2010 10:08:08 PM

What are the "big 4" in sports?? Football, basketball, baseball, and.....?? Serious question. Hockey couldn't even get on a major network for the fucking playoffs. Golf??

6/24/2010 8:32:31 AM

Soccer?

6/24/2010 8:39:47 AM

AAAANNNNDDD in come the hockey bashers.

6/24/2010 8:44:49 AM

I'm not bashing hockey, it was just an honest question in response to this:

Quote :

"And I'm not trying to say soccer isn't growing, simply that I'm skeptical it will ever reach the popularity in this country at a collegiate or professional level of any of the other big 4 sports"

I just don't think there is a "big 4" in sports.

6/24/2010 8:50:03 AM

It's hockey.

6/24/2010 8:54:31 AM

Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey have been known as the Big 4 for about 60 years.

6/24/2010 9:01:30 AM