LOL, they would refuse to adopt a dog to a pro dog trainer because all the ones I know have the dogs in outdoor kennels instead of crates while they are gone because chainlink sunk into concrete with a roof is harder for a dog to escape than a crate. I'm glad dogs are one of the few things I am not allergic to.

7/3/2010 9:46:23 PM

holy hell they are insane

7/3/2010 11:20:18 PM

It doesn't surprise me. I used to volunteer with a cat shelter that had all sorts of batshit insane criteria when adopting out cats. It's part of the reason I stopped volunteering there. It seems like the more specialized an animal rescue group is, the crazier their criteria for adopting out becomes.

7/3/2010 11:27:16 PM

who the hell leaves their dog unattended outside unless they are hunting dogs or something like that?

7/4/2010 9:46:12 AM

obvious troll is obvious

7/4/2010 10:13:48 AM

Quote :

"who the hell leaves their dog unattended outside unless they are hunting dogs or something like that?"

lookit dat 190% troll.

7/4/2010 10:14:02 AM

I'm not trolling anybody. Granted, if you live out in the country it might be cool to leave your dog exposed to the weather, etc, but I've always lived in the city, and therefore always had indoor dogs. Some breeds (like poodles) have no business being outside all of the time.

7/6/2010 7:55:33 AM

Because saying you'll leave your dog in the backyard obviously means you wouldn't have any shelter built for it

7/6/2010 7:57:01 AM

nm i'll play nice

[Edited on July 6, 2010 at 9:03 AM. Reason : ]

7/6/2010 8:49:33 AM

i also can't imagine leaving my dog outside...my dog is a pet, not a toy i put away until i want to play with it

i admit that i judge those who DO leave their dogs outside, but that's because i've seen more instances where they're in tiny pens with tiny houses and even though they're fed and watered well, their owners don't exercise them or play with them as often as i feel they should

yes, i realize not everyone is like that and yes, i realize that keeping your dog inside does not mean that you are a great dog owner...but again, i don't see a dog as decoration, i see it as a creature that i am responsible for...they're social creatures that, in general, benefit strongly from regular and consistent interaction and it is my experience that those that keep their dogs outside spend less time with them than those who don't

*shrug*

7/6/2010 8:50:41 AM

i don't agree with keeping your dog out 24/7, like a decoration or whatever either. i'm also not a big fan of those chain link kennels.

my dogs stay outside while i'm at work unless it's pouring down raining or over 90 degrees. if it does rain or get warm, they get up under the deck on the old patio right next to the house where it's cool. they sleep inside at night and are inside while i'm at home. i think it's much better than staying in a crate all day, indoors 24/7, getting no exercise or socialization (an hour at the dog park doesn't count).

that said, i don't live in raleigh and my yard is a little over 2/3rds of an acre & fenced. a lot of people don't have that.

[Edited on July 6, 2010 at 8:57 AM. Reason : ]

7/6/2010 8:57:20 AM

Quote :

"an hour at the dog park doesn't count"

it most certainly does...it may not in YOUR opinion, but it is the opinion of experts (vets and animal behaviorists) that an hour at the dog park every day is extremely beneficial

you may think your dogs get plenty of exercise and/or socialization fenced in together, but i'm sorry to tell you that dogs, like people, are generally more active in situations that are different; new dogs (or dogs they don't spend time with all day, every day) and new places (or places they don't spend time in all day, every day) stimulate them significantly more than being in your yard

i'm not saying what you're doing is wrong or bad, though...i agree with you completely that it is immeasurably preferable to being stuck in a crate all day long...but to imply that sticking them outside in the same fenced area with the same dogs is MORE stimulating than an hour at the dog park each day is ignorance

my dogs are free to roam in the house while i'm at work or school, and they're let outside for an hour at lunch when i go home...every afternoon/evening, we walk them to the dog park (about 15 minutes away) where they play until they choose to stop (one will just run away from you if she wants to keep playing, otherwise she'll lay down and let you put the leash on her)...when we bring them home, they lay down and/or sleep for the rest of the evening

i realize everyone's situation is different, but there is no part of that schedule that is in any way insufficient regarding their exercise or socialization needs

7/6/2010 9:14:43 AM

no need to get your damn panties in a wad. i wasn't arguing with you.

yeah an hour at the dog park DAILY does count, but how many people actually do that? my dogs play together and through the fence w/ the 3 neighbor dogs. sure they're not meeting 328492347 new dogs everyday, but it's still better than being inside 8 hours a day in MY opinion. i go home for lunch 2 out of 5 days a week and i'm off friday afternoons too. they see my mom's golden and brother's 2 dogs regularly, and we take them to the beach house, hiking, etc too. rocky mount doesn't have dog parks anyway.

7/6/2010 9:54:52 AM

Let me clear up any misunderstandings that may have arisen from my earlier post:

I only planned to (and mentioned in my application that I would) leave the dog outside in the fence while I was at work. my fenced in yard is over 3000 sq feet. I don't work close enough to home to let the dog out for an hour while I have lunch. I also agree with those whose sentiment is that 8 hours running around the yard during the day is more beneficial to a dogs mental and physical health than 8 hours lying around on the couch waiting for me to come home.

That being said, the plan was to let the dog be an inside/outside dog while I was home in the evenings and on the weekends, etc. And I planned on taking the dog out when I jog in the evenings to let it see and smell and piss in new places.

It's ridiculous that these animal shelters have such crazy protective opinions about the way you're supposed to take care of your dog in the real world. Kept inside all day with a potty break sometime in the afternoon? Are you serious? I have to have to pick out a groomer and vet ahead of time and have them on call or something to make this place happy? I don't think so. Someone from the shelter was going to come and look at my house for crying out loud, that's how ridiculous these people are. Maybe I have a wildly different perspective on the way animals are supposed to be kept because I grew up on a humongous farm where our dogs were allowed to run around wherever they wanted pretty much all the time, but this over protectiveness of animals is stupid. I agree that pets are a part of the family and a responsibility and not a toy, but there is such a thing as sheltering your dog too much just like sheltering your kid too much. They are a dog after all. If I can handle being outside all day with some shade and enough water, so can they.

7/6/2010 1:06:38 PM

Quote :

"It's ridiculous that these animal shelters have such crazy protective opinions about the way you're supposed to take care of your dog in the real world."

agreed...the SPCA is notoriously bad about this, which is why i no longer volunteer there...bunch of nuts

7/6/2010 1:48:18 PM

Quote :

"If I can handle being outside all day with some shade and enough water, so can they."

Yep. I mean hell, that's what most dogs were originally bred for. I guess a farmer that leaves their sheepdog outsides is an asshole by the standards of a lot of these rescues. I guess my parents would be assholes too, since they leave their dog outside while at work. Damn dog pitches a fit if they leave her indoors for too long anyway

Personally I wouldn't get a pet from a place that demanded they be able to inspect my home before I could get an animal. That crosses a privacy boundary I'm not willing to cross for buying a pet.

7/6/2010 10:34:44 PM

Quote :

"Some breeds (like poodles) have no business being outside all of the time."

no dog of any breed deserves to be cooped up in a house all day long, only being let out occasionally to piss and shit. dogs are animals, not people. They are perfectly capable of surviving just fine outside. you really have been living in the city too long if you think otherwise.

7/6/2010 11:42:29 PM

many breeds have adapted over time by human breeding to be fairly helpless outside.

7/7/2010 12:26:27 AM

What breeds would those be out of curiosity?

7/7/2010 1:00:03 AM

Quote :

"Get whatever you want. You're not married to this girl and for all you know the dog will last longer than she will. "

Quote :

"Some breeds (like poodles) have no business being outside all of the time."

lets not forget that we are talking about animals here....

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 1:54 AM. Reason : ...]

7/7/2010 1:47:08 AM

Quote :

"dogs are animals, not people. They are perfectly capable of surviving just fine outside."

there is a distinct difference between animals that developed as a result of evolution and those that were designed (bred) by humans for specific purposes...look at a wolf or fox next to a toy poodle and then tell me that they're both EQUALLY "capable" of surviving outside under the same conditions

Quote :

"many breeds have adapted over time by human breeding to be fairly helpless outside."

agreed

Quote :

"What breeds would those be out of curiosity?"

working, hunting, herding, and sporting breeds tend to be pretty hearty (ignoring the genetic defects inherent to species being interbred over generations)...most of those that fall within the AKC's "non-sporting" and "toy" classes are fragile and delicate, as are a good 25% of those in the "terrier" class...those breeds that were designed to be nothing more than "pretty" are, in general, genetic failures that would die quickly without human support

in the end, all dogs are NOT the same, and it's ignorance to assume that they can all handle the same environment (even one that's not extreme) equally well

7/7/2010 9:14:45 AM

ignorance, i say!!

but really, little toy dogs probably shouldn't stay outside all day. a standard poodle would be fine i think. maybe even a mini. not a toy though.

7/7/2010 9:34:03 AM

Quote :

"What breeds would those be out of curiosity?"

Pretty much any brachiocephalic (mashed in nose) breed, like a bulldog or a pug.

7/7/2010 9:47:54 AM

Quote :

"but it is the opinion of experts (vets and animal behaviorists) that an hour at the dog park every day is extremely beneficial"

Every vet or animal behaviorist I've spoken to are against dog parks.

I don't go to them anymore (not just for the fact that it has been suggested I don't go, by vets and trainers).. I would rather keep my vet bill down as much as possible. Every time I take Gambit there he either gets hurt or another dog hurts him, or the other dogs who go a lot get in their pack and pick fights. No thanks, I'll take him on a run or let him play with my friends'/family's dogs.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 9:55 AM. Reason : but to each their own]

7/7/2010 9:53:27 AM

well you don't agree with quagmire so you must be ignorant

7/7/2010 10:17:26 AM

Quote :

"Every vet or animal behaviorist I've spoken to are against dog parks."

every vet and behaviorist at the vet school that i worked with while i was doing my masters work was very much in favor...but that's only 10-15 vets and 4-5 behaviorists, so maybe i should get more opinions

Quote :

"Every time I take Gambit there he either gets hurt or another dog hurts him, or the other dogs who go a lot get in their pack and pick fights. No thanks, I'll take him on a run or let him play with my friends'/family's dogs."

some dogs don't handle it well and yours might be one of them...also, the park matters...millbrook was downright awful with all the un-neutered pits and careless owners, but carolina pines and oakwood have been great

Quote :

"well you don't agree with quagmire so you must be ignorant"

it's not that you don't agree with ME, it's that you don't agree with several dozen EXPERTS (at least they have a better understanding of and experience with animal behavior than you or i)

as noted, to each their own...some dogs don't do well in dog parks and there's nothing you can do about it...some breeds are genetically inferior and can't handle being outside...some people think their dogs are too good or they themselves are too scared to go to dog parks...i don't care what individual people do with their dogs in that respect, but since it is the opinion of the VAST majority of vets and behaviorists that i've spoken that dog parks are great places for socialization and exercise, i'm going to take their opinion over the few random folks in here with significantly lesser experience and knowledge...just because my opinion is the same as the vets and behaviorists is no reason to get defensive

7/7/2010 10:50:01 AM

I have a terrier on my parents farm that spends 80-90% of his time outside by choice, and he is perfectly capable of handling himself. In fact, he went toe to toe with a bobcat and walked away with only a small chunk of his ear missing and a fairly serious scratch on his nose. Took him to the vet, they made sure he was up on his shots, gave him a doggy band aid, and he was back to himself in 24 hours.

I'll admit, my golden retriever would have laid an ass whoopin on that bobcat... But Sporticus didn't do too bad. Even your little dogs can handle themselves against reasonable opponents (not like a bear or anything).

And the only type of poodle I will deal with is a standard one.

7/7/2010 10:50:59 AM

Quote :

"every vet and behaviorist at the vet school that i worked with while i was doing my masters work was very much in favor...but that's only 10-15 vets and 4-5 behaviorists, so maybe i should get more opinions"

I, too, worked with vets from the vet school, as well as animal behaviorists. I agree with them - dog parks exist for the owners who want to socialize. But like I said, to each their own.

Quote :

"some dogs don't handle it well and yours might be one of them...also, the park matters...millbrook was downright awful with all the un-neutered pits and careless owners, but carolina pines and oakwood have been great"

I took him to Carolina Pines. Out of the tons of times I took him there, I think I had 2 good experiences... The rest were terrible. Sometimes they didn't even include my dog... most of the owners just stand around talking and don't watch their dogs.

Therefore, I stopped going. I take my dog running/walking and to play with dogs I know... he's still happy.

I don't understand why you're getting all butthurt over this. It's not that big of a deal, dude.

7/7/2010 11:13:10 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand why you're getting all butthurt over this. It's not that big of a deal, dude."

i agree completely, it's not a big deal...some people have dogs that benefit from socialization and exercise and some have dogs that can't handle it...nothing to be ashamed of or get defensive over

no worries

7/7/2010 11:14:48 AM

*yawn* nice try buddy

7/7/2010 11:16:25 AM

*yawn* sux2bu

7/7/2010 11:18:38 AM

so yeah, it basically still boils down to if you don't agree with quagmire, then you're obviously ignorant.

there will always be people (vets, behaviorists, people with animal science degrees, common folk, etc) who disagree over dog parks. always. i think it really comes down to what's best for YOUR dog, how YOUR dog handles it, YOUR dog's home environment, etc. you, quagmire, can't make that call for someone else.

your horse is getting really tall

7/7/2010 1:53:30 PM

^ i'm sorry...i think i'm reading that the person who claimed that "an hour at the dog park doesn't count" as exercise OR socialization (what WOULD you consider it, then?) is calling ME out for making qualified statements (specifically noting that situations are different for everyone and that some dogs don't do well in dog parks)

don't get pissy just because i called you out on your uneducated blanket statement

7/7/2010 1:57:59 PM

Quote :

"your horse is getting really tall"

lolwut?

7/7/2010 2:04:25 PM

apparently, i'm up on a high horse for calling people ignorant when they believe that dog parks provide neither exercise nor socialization and that keeping them in a fence in their backyard (you know, where they can play "through the fence w/ the 3 neighbor dogs") is the best option

7/7/2010 2:07:20 PM

you are retarded. why are you getting so bend out of shape over this shit? i know my dogs, i do what's best for them...not what some random person on tww thinks is best. because you know 394213742 vets doesn't make you an expert. i'm not either, but i do what's best for my dogs according to what my vet and i think.

i still don't think that getting an hour at the dog park every once in a while/once a week is going to make the difference. i didn't say they don't provide ANY socialization or exercise, i said it's not enough. i have 2 very active herding group dogs who play with toys, run, chase each other & squirrels/rabbits/those dreaded cockroaches/etc all day long outside. that's a hell of a lot more stimulation than an hour at a park & 8 hours of crate time. you can bitch all you want but i'm not changing my mind.

you're not the be-all, end-all here. you're not even a vet, afaict. neither am i, but i'm not going to act like my opinion is TROOF

7/7/2010 2:47:44 PM

Quote :

"i still don't think that getting an hour at the dog park every once in a while/once a week is going to make the difference."

and this is why your opinion means nothing...it can and does make a significant difference in the VAST majority of dogs

i don't take issue with you thinking you know best for YOUR dogs, i take issue with you thinking that you know what's best for ALL dogs...i qualify MY statements so as not to make blanket statements, while you continue to think your extremely limited experience represents the whole

*shrug*

7/7/2010 2:52:03 PM

Seems to me like you're the one acting like you know "what's best" for everyone else's dogs, regardless of their experience.

7/7/2010 3:00:05 PM

^ no, just what's best for the majority (based on personal experience and the professional opinions of dozens of folks who know more than any one else who's posted thus far)

good try, though!

7/7/2010 3:03:18 PM

^^^it's not extremely limited experience. i have a BS in animal science, minor in nutrition (focused on animal nutrition), have fostered animals w/ best friend pet adoption, volunteered at the spca, and worked at a doggy daycare/kennel place. i know a little something.

i have qualified things and you too have made blanket statements. YOU act like you know everything and as far as i've read in this thread i haven't seen anywhere that you state you are a vet, animal behaviorist, trainer, etc. just that you work around/with/near vets. yes, that ^^


[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 3:07 PM. Reason : cannot type]

7/7/2010 3:04:43 PM

Quote :

"^ no, just what's best for the majority (based on personal experience and the professional opinions of dozens of folks who know more than any one else who's posted thus far) good try, though!"

The fact that it's "best for the majority" is your opinion. The professional opinion of the vets I have worked with (and I worked with them for more than just a few days, weeks, months) was the opposite of what you have heard. It's never going to be a clear cut decision. People will always have differing opinions.

7/7/2010 3:06:46 PM

the end.

sooo back to hypoallergenic dogs. i've heard good things about the bichon frise

7/7/2010 3:13:35 PM

Quote :

"i have a BS in animal science, minor in nutrition (focused on animal nutrition), have fostered animals w/ best friend pet adoption, volunteered at the spca, and worked at a doggy daycare/kennel place. i know something."

you're right, you know SOMETHING...just not sure where this something fits into the psychology behind behavioral development in dogs over a lifetime...

Quote :

"i have qualified things and you too have made blanket statements."

1.) you've qualified some things, and i've left those alone...i take issue with the stupid blanket statements you've made (which, at least, you're not denying)
2.) list my blanket statements in regards to taking dogs to the dog park as a means by which to exercise and socialize them...please?

Quote :

"The fact that it's "best for the majority" is your opinion."

incorrect...i have specifically said that my opinion is based partly on my experiences and more significantly on the opinions of those who have a lifetime of experience (in addition to a little thing like a PhD or DVM)

Quote :

"I worked with them for more than just a few days, weeks, months"

we can compare experiences if you want...i worked as a pooper scooper at a kennel for 2 years (ages 14-16), 4 years as a vet tech (16-19), and 2 years (20-22) in a dog rehab clinic...add to those 8 years another 3 with vets and behaviorists (drug studies, i'll admit) and i'd say i have a little bit of an idea

Quote :

"It's never going to be a clear cut decision. People will always have differing opinions."

i'm not arguing this...some dogs and/or their owners don't feel comfortable at dog parks and they don't benefit from the socialization...those same dogs, being uncomfortable in a situation around a lot of dogs, likely won't exercise, either...so yeah, it doesn't work out for everyone

but for anyone to imply (or state outright) that socialization and exercise CANNOT be had, regardless of the situation, at a dog park is just...retarded

7/7/2010 3:19:26 PM

Soooo you basically just in a round-about way agreed that everything you've been saying is your opinion. Especially with this statement:

Quote :

"incorrect...i have specifically said that my opinion is based partly on my experiences and more significantly on the opinions of those who have a lifetime of experience (in addition to a little thing like a PhD or DVM)"

I'm not arguing that you don't have specific reasons for why you have the opinion that you do. I'm just saying it's still your opinion, not a fact.

And as far as socialization at the dog park goes, all I was saying is that the socialization I witnessed at a dog park was hardly ever beneficial. Am I saying that's a fact? Nope. I'm just going by what I saw and witnessed, and what I have discussed with vets. I saw lots of fights, lots of owners just yapping their mouths and not paying attention to their dogs..

The only fact that remains is that there will always only be opinions regarding dog parks, and nothing clear cut. Why? Because every dog is different, and every owner is different. If you want to continue to be all butt hurt, by all means, keep writing out long-ass posts.

Oh, and this:

Quote :

"but for anyone to imply (or state outright) that socialization and exercise CANNOT be had, regardless of the situation, at a dog park is just...retarded"

I don't think anyone was EVER arguing that.

(PS ... It's cute that you listed out your animal field training, obviously a nerve was struck. Personally, I'm not going to waste my time putting my resume up for you to foam at the mouth over.)

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/7/2010 3:33:31 PM

^^jesus fucking christ, can you not read?

that's it. i'm not arguing with a wall anymore. get back on the topic or shut up.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 3:34 PM. Reason : ]

7/7/2010 3:33:53 PM

Quote :

"Soooo you basically just in a round-about way agreed that everything you've been saying is your opinion."

durr...the difference is that mine comes from more extensive experience than you, IN ADDITION TO the culmination of experiences of people who are, for all intents and purposes, are experts in the matter...find even ONE instance where i called my opinion a fact and you might have a point...otherwise, this is your attempt to argue that your baseless opinion is worth as much as the opinions of professionals in their field

Quote :

"I don't think anyone was EVER arguing that."

actually, in case you missed it, se7entythree DID argue that: "an hour at the dog park doesn't count" toward exercise or socialization...reading comprehension FTL?

you should probably stop trying to think if the result is that you're missing the obvious parts that have been quoted several times

Quote :

"PS ... It's cute that you listed out your animal field training, obviously a nerve was struck. Personally, I'm not going to waste my time putting my resume up for you to foam at the mouth over."

first of all, i know i'm cute...i don't need validation from you

second, your statement reads: oh shit, i didn't realize he might have a tiny bit more experience than volunteering at the SPCA! i'll just pretend that i'm too GOOD to respond...yeah, that'll work!

Quote :

"get back on the topic or shut up."

i'll make a deal with you...i'll stop calling you out on your dumbass blanket statements that stem from ignorance and lack of experience in canine development and behavior when you, i don't know, actually stop making said statements...deal?

the topic is done and over with, and was at that point on page 1...the breeds have been mentioned and the thread has since spiraled into yet another argument as to whether purebreds are bad/good/whatever, a condemnation of the retarded SPCA, and how to "properly" take care of your pet...all worthy discussions, but not really for this thread

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 4:30 PM. Reason : commas]

7/7/2010 4:26:37 PM

Dogs are serious business.

7/8/2010 12:37:15 AM

they are when they bite your face!

7/8/2010 7:46:21 AM

Here's a labradoodle in New Bern:

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16554399

7/10/2010 3:24:50 AM

Whoever suggested a greyhound for a person in an apartment must be insane. Those dogs need to live at houses with fenced-in yards, bottom line.

7/13/2010 12:14:40 AM