looks like a wolfpack hoodie she has on there

8/31/2010 7:45:19 PM

Quote :

"you're trolling, right?"

Funny, I thought the same thing when you went off on a little spout about how you think it is just and right to punish people who hurt animals. Not only that, you bring up the guy who tortured cats to death for 17 years (sorry, "kittens," I need to keep the appeal to emotion in there) and suggesting that he be hurt in some way (I assume you mean he should be tortured?). Sorry, but your logic is flawed if you think that people should be allowed to hunt animals for mere enjoyment (after all, the bullet doesn't always kill the animal), or shoot squirrels or blow up moles who are ruining their lawn are somehow better than the girl who is throwing puppies into a river. A lot of people kill poor defenseless mice, and have done so for years, with mouse traps. Often times the mouse wouldn't die, but get stuck in the trap and starve itself to death. Yet such acts are still socially acceptable.

Fact of the matter is that people such as yourself hold some animals up to a higher standard than other animals. People like yourself value the life of some dog that you don't know over some cow that you don't know. I only the other hand have no problem with a dog being killed for food, or a deer being hunted and killed for fun. It's one thing to do it to cause harm to someone's pet or to your own dog, but to a fucking stray? Come on. It's not any worse than the old people shooting squirrels from their deck with a bb gun.

8/31/2010 7:45:42 PM

Quote :

"i think a lot of these people who do shit like that have some sort of superiority/god complex."

Or just don't give a fuck / find animals useless and annoying.

8/31/2010 7:52:01 PM

There's a big fucking difference between butchering a cow for meat, shooting a deer for sport, or even throwing puppies into a stream for fun, and actually torturing animals. I never said that any of the former should be punishable offenses (I did imply that hurting animals should be punishable...but I clarified what I meant by "hurting" in subsequent posts.) I said the latter should be a punishable offense. If you don't see a difference there, then there's obviously no point in arguing with you.

8/31/2010 7:54:58 PM

blame god for making puppies so defenseless. It's not like he didn't know this would happen.

8/31/2010 7:56:39 PM

merbig.
do you have these same feelings towards people?
or are all people considered the same?



i also want to say-i held back crying when we had to kill all the mice in my house.

and i also cried when they killed jaws when i was 10 (ish?). my mom has never let me live that down.

i cry real easily though.
im a huge wuss

[Edited on August 31, 2010 at 8:02 PM. Reason : ?]

8/31/2010 8:01:43 PM

just remember that the mice are crawling on your face at night so a dead mouse is probably better

8/31/2010 8:09:26 PM

hahaha i doubt that.

8/31/2010 8:12:05 PM

You PETA porch monkeys probably giggle like a schoolgirl when you smash roaches. Same exact thing.

8/31/2010 8:33:05 PM

Quote :

"PETA porch monkeys"

8/31/2010 8:53:24 PM

Quote :

"There's a big fucking difference between butchering a cow for meat, shooting a deer for sport, or even throwing puppies into a stream for fun, and actually torturing animals. I never said that any of the former should be punishable offenses (I did imply that hurting animals should be punishable...but I clarified what I meant by "hurting" in subsequent posts.) I said the latter should be a punishable offense. If you don't see a difference there, then there's obviously no point in arguing with you."

Call it torture, or call it killing. Same fucking thing that happens a lot that is often times condoned. Fact of the matter is you hold animals we consider to be pets to a higher standard than the rest of the animals.

You really don't think you're not torturing a deer when you shoot it and you don't kill it? You don't think you're torturing a dog by drowning it for fun. How about I hold your head underwater until you come close to drowning to death and ask you if you thought it wasn't torture. I'll bet you will hold a very different opinion. How about I shoot you in the leg and let you run off, then ask you a month or so later (assuming you don't die) whether you thought it was torture.

The thing is, I don't mind that we use cows for their meat, or a guy wants to kill a deer for fun, or he wants to cut a mouse's head off or set traps that could potentially starve it to death. I don't think the woman who threw the dogs into a river for fun should be hunted out. Whether you like to admit it or not, we condone A LOT of suffering of a lot of animals. Yet only a few instances of it are frowned upon.

Quote :

"merbig. do you have these same feelings towards people? or are all people considered the same?"

I consider people and animals to be separate. Yes, I know a biologist would classify us as an animal. But regardless, we are far different from the rest of the animals on this planet.

8/31/2010 8:59:54 PM

Quote :

"it's not nearly as bad as that Asian bitch who stuck her high heels into a kitten's eye"

I actually disagree. That poor kitten probably died pretty quickly. This lady tossed several puppies into a river and I'm sure they didn't die all that quickly. I do agree however, that the heel to the eye was so hard to see. Fuck em both.

8/31/2010 9:18:11 PM

8/31/2010 9:23:52 PM

Quote :

" i think a lot of these people who do shit like that have some sort of superiority/god complex. "

You do not yet know russians

8/31/2010 9:51:09 PM

Quote :

"You really don't think you're not torturing a deer when you shoot it and you don't kill it? You don't think you're torturing a dog by drowning it for fun. How about I hold your head underwater until you come close to drowning to death and ask you if you thought it wasn't torture. I'll bet you will hold a very different opinion. How about I shoot you in the leg and let you run off, then ask you a month or so later (assuming you don't die) whether you thought it was torture."

no, I don't think any of these things are torture. nor would I think it was torture if you shot me in the leg. It would hurt, but it would be nothing compared to real torture: having acid poured in my eyes, being stretched on the rack for hours, etc.

I mentioned torture (by my definition) to illustrate that there are, indeed, crimes against animals for which it would be just, imo, to punish the offender physically....even, in some cases, to execute him

I'll admit that people who hunt for sport should not, imho, be expressing sympathy for these puppies

but there is a difference between killing another creature for food, and (relatively) painlessly...and killing another creature for sport and/or painfully

the fact that animals are suffering every day, and that I condone most of it, does not mean there are not crimes against animals so monstrous that I would NOT condone them

in conclusion, you seem to see the world in black and white: all methods of painful killing are torture, there is a vast gulf between humans and animals which makes it possible to hold completely different ethical standards for the two groups, there is no fundamental difference between cow-slaughter and puppy-drowning, etc.

I disagree with all these things, partly because I believe that the world is, in most cases, anything but black and white.

8/31/2010 9:57:29 PM

Quote :

"I don't think the woman who threw the dogs into a river for fun should be hunted out."

If that girl really is from Serbia then she is probably just throwing the puppies into the river as a public service, and not necessarily doing it to have some sadistic fun at cute puppies' expense. Same thing we do with mice by setting out traps for them.

8/31/2010 9:58:52 PM

these puppies were not necessarily Serbian

maybe one of them was a visiting Austrian Archpuppy

and this is the spark which will ignite the Great European Puppy War

8/31/2010 10:06:01 PM

feral dogs are killed in the US as a matter of routine. we just do it by injecting drugs in their heart while they struggle to escape

8/31/2010 10:11:26 PM

actually merbirg, i was asking do you consider each individual human being to be equal?

Quote :

"You PETA porch monkeys probably giggle like a schoolgirl when you smash roaches. Same exact thing."

youre right, but at the same time thats a piss poor example.
main reason being that its damn near impossible to have an emotional connection with a cockroach (although im sure there are people out there who have that ahhaha)

emotional connections are what seperate the animals we don't "care" about from the animals we do.

i think about the dogs ive had in the past when i see this.

and to think that just because youre against this girl throwing puppies into a river means you have to be against killing cockroaches, or not eat meat, etc etc is a pretty HUGE generalization there.


[Edited on August 31, 2010 at 10:32 PM. Reason : HUGE]

8/31/2010 10:24:06 PM

Quote :

"blame god for making puppies so defenseless. It's not like he didn't know this would happen."

LOL

defenseless AND cute. He knew this would happen, and he personally did it to torture the good people of the world...JUST TO FUCK WITH US! fucked up

8/31/2010 10:56:35 PM

Quote :

"emotional connections are what seperate the animals we don't "care" about from the animals we do. "

All you are saying - is that only the cute animals are important. Anything you can not manufacture an "emotional attachment" (read a cute animal) doesn't matter.

9/1/2010 7:15:38 AM

Quote :

"i have a place in my heart for little kids and animals. they're basically defenseless."

Animals aren't defenseless. The common defense mechanism for animals is to go into shock so they don't feel anything while a bigger animal kills them by tearing them apart.

Maybe I'm reading this sentence wrong. I read it as little kids and animals. Did you mean little kids and little animals? Either way, same defense mechanism is in place. It's still a bad time on the receiving end.

9/1/2010 8:00:39 AM

soap box in MY chit chat?

9/1/2010 8:04:04 AM

This bitch is throwing puppies into a god damned river. Make all the logical, philosophical arguments that you want, but I'd like nothing more than to tie an anchor to her ass and toss her in after them. Maybe it's just the dog owner in me...

9/1/2010 8:11:03 AM

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE PUPPIES?!?!?!

9/1/2010 8:12:49 AM

Lol @ CNN putting 4chan on a pedestal as people that can hunt this woman down.

And peta is encouraging it!

9/1/2010 9:33:44 AM

Maybe 4chan can use their powers for good and hunt down Osama bin Laden instead of random whores.

9/1/2010 9:36:51 AM

Quote :

"If she truly is from Bosnia, I find it highly unlikely that she will catch hell in any significant way. The fact of the matter is that since the war, packs of feral dogs are everywhere in that country and many Bosnians would view killing them off as doing society a favor. Althought it is fucked up."

QFT

9/1/2010 9:42:42 AM

inorite?!

Kitten gets its face stomped on: 4chan is on it like white on rice

Cat gets thrown In the trash: 4chan is there like stank on shit

Bin Laden terrorizes the world: dude!.... let's play WoW

9/1/2010 9:47:42 AM

9/1/2010 10:37:48 AM

^ i'm sure he asked for it

9/1/2010 10:42:55 AM

They spread rabies and cuteness.

9/1/2010 10:43:53 AM

i hear that if they bite you and you get cuteness, you foam at the mouth with rainbows and glitter

9/1/2010 10:44:54 AM

It's a horrible fate.

9/1/2010 10:46:00 AM

inorite...glitter's a bitch to get off your face

makes it look like you've been making out with a cheap stripper...or a twilight vampire

9/1/2010 10:47:02 AM

^ I heard about someone who got that glitter and rainbows once...

9/1/2010 11:10:41 AM

helluva way to go

9/1/2010 11:38:06 AM

Quote :

"no, I don't think any of these things are torture. nor would I think it was torture if you shot me in the leg. It would hurt, but it would be nothing compared to real torture: having acid poured in my eyes, being stretched on the rack for hours, etc."

Again, shooting an animal in the leg and letting it limp off IS torture. You can try and split hairs all you want, but the fact that you try to create some completely set of standards and redefine torture shows that you really haven't sat down to think about where you stand on an ethical standpoint to see if you are consistent. Just by judging from what you're saying, you have not. You've also avoided other points that I've made, such as a mouse being caught in a trap and starving to death. Surely, starving an animal to death should count as torture, even if it's by neglect.

Take one of the methods of torture, that we, largely as a society, has deemed as being morally inappropriate, water-boarding. Taking some guy and simulating the feeling of drowning. Is it the duration of time he's being water-boarded that makes it torture? I mean, if you shoot a deer in the leg and it turns off, there's an extremely good chance that the deer will die from an infection, and it may take days or weeks before it will finally kill it. In the meantime, it will have this huge festering, gangrene, scab. Don't tell me it doesn't hurt. And for the mouse, it make take 3-4 days before he finally dies.

Is it intent that matters to you? Like for the mouse, we're just negligent in checking the trap? But with hunting, people don't need to hunt and shoot the deer for food. They want to. It's fun to them. It's enjoyment. That's why people do it. Sure, they may like deer meat, but there is commercially grown deer meat that they can buy in a store or buy in a restaurant.

Quote :

"but there is a difference between killing another creature for food, and (relatively) painlessly...and killing another creature for sport and/or painfully"

Most definitely. Slaughter houses do it humanely by putting the animal unconscious. Hunters do not.

Quote :

"the fact that animals are suffering every day, and that I condone most of it, does not mean there are not crimes against animals so monstrous that I would NOT condone them"

Which you still haven't answered why. You simply say that "there is a difference" between x torture and y torture that makes y torture punishable. Are you simply looking at a degree of pain? Hell, you can look at it from a Utilitarian perspective, in which all pain is bad. In which case the starving of a mouse is just as bad, morally, as acid being poured into the eyes of the cat.

Quote :

"in conclusion, you seem to see the world in black and white: all methods of painful killing are torture, there is a vast gulf between humans and animals which makes it possible to hold completely different ethical standards for the two groups, there is no fundamental difference between cow-slaughter and puppy-drowning, etc."

I don't see the world in black and white, but you simply can't paint the entire worlds in shade of grade. Intent has a large part in determining whether something is moral. My problem with you is that you want to inflict harm to another human for inflicting harm on another animal, and that simply is an inconsistent logic.

I suggest you sit down and think long and hard about where you stand morally, because you have some serious inconsistencies that you should explain and try to rationalize, and if you can't explain or rationalize your inconsistencies, then you should consider getting rid of them, otherwise it makes it difficult to take your moral stance seriously in situations like these.

Quote :

"actually merbirg, i was asking do you consider each individual human being to be equal?"

Yes.

9/1/2010 1:40:26 PM

Reading the comments on CNN's article is TROLLERITIC

9/1/2010 1:48:38 PM

Quote :

"My problem with you is that you want to inflict harm to another human for inflicting harm on another animal, and that simply is an inconsistent logic. "

no, it isn't. I hold that some crimes against animals are so monstrous that the culprit deserves to suffer physical harm. You hold that that's inconsistent, because there is plenty of animal-suffering that I totally condone. I hold that there are different degrees of suffering, and also (as you said) different degrees of culpability, depending on the perpetrator's intent. You seem to hold that all suffering is more or less the same, and if I wouldn't punish the hunters, I shouldn't punish the guy who tortures kittens every day for 14 years. I hold that the second guy's crime is far worse than the first guy's crime, and that therefore there is no inconsistency in punishing him while leaving the first guy alone. You don't buy this.

that's the story, up until this point. Evidently we'll never agree on that last point, so there seems to be nothing to do but just agree to disagree.

9/1/2010 1:53:50 PM

ITT killing an animal is more shocking then killing a human.

9/1/2010 2:21:27 PM

In my opinion, GGMon is the most effective troll on the internet. Even when I know he's trolling he makes me angry enough that I want to hit him in the face. It's very impressive and I salute you for it, in the sense that I wish you were dead.

9/1/2010 2:34:25 PM

she could just be teaching them how to swim

9/1/2010 3:23:24 PM

A friend of mines brother was known to choke kittens to death. One night he murdered his father who was sleeping by bludgeoning him with a mag light.

He is now in central prison in Raleigh. True Story.

9/1/2010 3:27:03 PM

I was told I killed baby animals when I was little

I don't remember any of it, so I don't know if that counts or not.

9/1/2010 4:01:58 PM

Quote :

"blame god for making puppies so defenseless. It's not like he didn't know this would happen."

Even if you were kidding, what an ignorant thing to say. Humans created dogs, not God or anything else. Thousands of years of selective breeding created dogs from wolves. They're our responsibility.

9/1/2010 4:04:13 PM

Quote :

"Humans created dogs"

lol

9/1/2010 4:04:44 PM

Maybe the puppies lived?

9/1/2010 4:10:20 PM

i'm just surprised the woman isn't korean, and the river isn't peanut oil.

9/1/2010 4:17:36 PM

^^^yeah, not sure why that's so funny. though I guess I'm wrong if you use the same logic and state something like "God created computers"...

^lol

9/1/2010 4:24:14 PM