Cool.

9/9/2010 4:27:32 PM

^^oh please. when the israelis use religion and cultural heritage to justify genocide, you shit all over them (rightly so) but when someone dares to shit on equally henious traditions of other cultures, well thats just off limits.

ugh, the israeli army blew up our retard boat! Who would have expected antagonizing them would lead to such a result?!?!?! welp, we better not antagonize them in the future

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ^^]

9/9/2010 4:28:55 PM

Old boy canceled it according to the WSJ.

9/9/2010 5:15:45 PM

oh, what a pussy chicken-ass bitch.

bock, bock bock bock bock bock BAWWWWWK!

fucker better mail me back my Koran i sent him. thing cost $20. had the concordance and everthang. ill have to burn it my damn self.






[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 5:26 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 5:23:55 PM

seriously, though, i predict a bunch of small, spontaneous Koran-burnings to "flare up" across the rural and uneducated areas of the country to occur.

i wonder how many will get national media coverage.

9/9/2010 5:28:18 PM

It's sad that in this day and age we are forced to comment on book burning.

book burning?

BOOK BURNING

9/9/2010 5:33:35 PM

Quote :

"Yes. They should be offended. If I wholeheartedly believed that my car started up and worked because there are invisible unicorns inside operating the parts, and insisted that it was my faith and that you should tolerate it, everyone here would mock me. Everyone everywhere would mock me - and I would deserve it."

You might have a point if this was actually fully applicable to the topic at hand. Let me make it more applicable. If you had a history of violence towards anyone who told you that you were wrong, do you still think everyone would mock you? I doubt it. Instead, the only people who would mock and offend you are the morons who simply care about nobody else but themselves.

Your example only works in a world where people react to criticism and mockery rationally. Come join the rest of us in the real world.

9/9/2010 5:41:00 PM

so as long as im a total shithead about it and threaten random voilence, everyone should just deal with my horrible beliefs?

9/9/2010 5:46:35 PM

well, he's saying that that he had an agreement from the peeps that wanted to put the mosque at ground zero that they would move it elsewhere, so he "took that as a sign from God."

9/9/2010 6:13:51 PM

So, a person (or group of people) can have a right to do a given thing but shouldn't do it because it might be disrespectful to others? Hmm. Sounds familiar.

9/9/2010 6:32:41 PM

^ does it? What disrespectful thing has someone tried to do recently, that they shouldn’t have done?

9/9/2010 7:04:10 PM

^ Think hard.

9/9/2010 7:26:49 PM

dude. thinking, in itself, is hard for him.

9/9/2010 7:30:01 PM

9/9/2010 7:30:43 PM

^ you haven’t really described anything as being disrespectful that we’ve discussed recently…

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_search.aspx?type=posts§ion=4&searchstring=disrespectful&username=hooksaw&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=

Are you changing or taking a position on something?

9/9/2010 7:44:23 PM

Quote :

"so as long as im a total shithead about it and threaten random voilence, everyone should just deal with my horrible beliefs?"

I'm not saying they can't protest them. I'm saying that there are better ways to do so. Not to mention when it comes to making a decision like this, you have to weigh the consequences of your actions with the benefit of your actions. It's a situation where I think Utilitarianism is quite useful. If this action is going to cause more harm and pain than good, it's a bad idea.

Why don't you go around calling every person you know to be a loose cannon or an angry drunk dickheads who should choke on a dick and die of AIDS? Why don't you call them the load that their mother should have swallowed? Is it because even though you may think that the person is the most reprehensible person in the world, the consequences of you doing these actions wouldn't be worth it just to have the satisfaction of telling some person off?

Not to mention that the consequences of these people's actions don't endanger themselves, but rather other innocent people. If Al Qaeda was threatening to do harm to these people and only these people, I wouldn't have much a problem with what they're doing, as if they die, it's their stupid fault. But that isn't the case here. It's rather innocent people who's going to pay the price for other people's actions. And that just doesn't morally sit well with me. Legally, they're free to do it, but I wish they wouldn't. It's just stupid and careless.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 7:55 PM. Reason : .]

9/9/2010 7:55:21 PM

^^ Huh? And coming up with the example on your own is part of the exercise.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 7:56 PM. Reason : .]

9/9/2010 7:55:47 PM

^ what exercise?

You won’t made a reference to something disrespectful, but won’t state what this thing is that you perceive as being disrespectful.

9/9/2010 8:01:22 PM

Quote :

"And coming up with the example on your own is part of the exercise."

9/9/2010 8:04:38 PM

I knew he would chicken out.

After all, the following people have condemned it, so I guess he had to chicken out:

Obama
Clinton
Palin
Robert Gates (he called the pastor urging him to back down)
Petraeus
WH Spokesman
NATO Chief
US Embassy Kabul

Actually, cross that out. On Sep 7, he said this:

Quote :

"Mr Jones said the church was "very concerned" after hearing Gen Petraeus' warning and was taking his words seriously. He said the church was praying on the matter but he said the group had "firmly made up our minds". "How long do we back down?" he said on CNN."

But on Sep 9:

Quote :

"Terry Jones said he was calling off the event after the group behind a planned Islamic centre near Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it. But the cultural centre's organisers said they had no plans to move it."

Quote :

""We would right now ask no one to burn Korans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it," he said. He said he would travel to New York on Saturday to meet those behind the Islamic centre, saying they had "agreed to move the location"."

Quote :

"Mr Jones was joined at his news conference by Muhammad Musri from the Islamic Foundation of Central Florida. Mr Musri said he and Mr Jones had committed to travelling to New York "to come to a decision on moving the mosque". "We are committed to dissolving the situation here and there," he said. He also thanked Mr Jones for his "courage and his willingness to take these serious events that are unfolding". But the organisers of the New York centre said no agreement had been reached with Mr Jones. AFP news agency quoted Daisy Khan, wife of the imam behind the project, as saying: "We don't know anything about it". Mr Musri later clarified to reporters that no guarantees about moving the Islamic centre had been given. He and Mr Jones had only agreed to fly to New York to discuss the location of the Islamic centre with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf."

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 8:06 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 8:04:48 PM

^^

Quote :

" What disrespectful thing has someone tried to do recently, that they shouldn’t have done?"

9/9/2010 8:09:03 PM

burning the Koran = building an activity center to hooksaw

9/9/2010 8:12:01 PM

^ Ah, we have a winner!

Act that many see as disrespectful--even though one has the right to commit the act

=

Act that many see as disrespectful--even though one has the right to commit the act

9/9/2010 8:19:59 PM

Quote :

" burning the Koran = building an activity center to hooksaw "

9/9/2010 8:21:51 PM

Quote :

"Act that many see as disrespectful--even though one has the right to commit the act = Act that many see as disrespectful--even though one has the right to commit the act"

9/9/2010 8:23:09 PM

Did terrorists plan to build a training camp in NYC?

9/9/2010 8:41:04 PM

^^ so in the opinion of hooksaw, muslims shouldn’t build a cultural center within some radius X of ground zero, because building a religious cultural center is an equivalent act to burning religious books?

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 8:46:00 PM

And yet people aren't threatening to kill innocent people over the building of the Mosque. I don't care about people being offended. I care about how they will react due to their past history of violence over things that offend them. I guess I shouldn't be surprised hooksaw can't see that.

9/9/2010 9:23:10 PM

Quote :

" And yet people aren't threatening to kill innocent people over the building of the Mosque. "

A cabbie in NY was stabbed after telling his passenger he was Muslim.

There has yet to be a Christian stabbed in FL because of the pastor calling for burning korans.

9/9/2010 9:47:11 PM

Well the mosque is still going up while this pussy backed down. So Muslims 1, Christians 0.

9/9/2010 9:48:00 PM

^
The mosque still might could move.

and Christians > Muslims in the grand scheme of things

9/9/2010 9:52:50 PM

Quote :

"A cabbie in NY was stabbed after telling his passenger he was Muslim. There has yet to be a Christian stabbed in FL because of the pastor calling for burning korans."

Christians are killed all the time just for being Christian in Muslim countries.

9/9/2010 10:25:12 PM

^ but we expect 3rd world shit holes to be filled with shitty people.

What does it mean when Christians in America begin to act like uneducated, poor, dumb 3rd world muslims?

9/9/2010 10:26:32 PM

Quote :

"So because you disagree with their culture, and many other people in the US disagree with their culture, it makes it justifiable to offend them?"

By definition, yes. Bad ideas ought to be confronted. The concept of blasphemy is a horrible idea, and ought to be confronted. What better way to confront it than to provoke it, to bring it out into the light of day, where everyone can see the ludicrous form it inevitably takes?

Quote :

"but we expect 3rd world shit holes to be filled with shitty people."

Behold the new liberal mindset.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 11:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 11:07:42 PM

Quote :

"By definition, yes. Bad ideas ought to be confronted. The concept of blasphemy is a horrible idea, and ought to be confronted. What better way to confront it than to provoke it, to bring it out into the light of day, where everyone can see the ludicrous form it inevitably takes?"

I think it's a bad idea to provoke people into violence onto innocent people. Maybe I should hold a Bible burning to protest their Quran burning. That will certainly solve things.

Notice, I'm not saying that they shouldn't do anything to protest what is happening in these countries, but provoking violence is just pointless. You don't need to intentionally provoke violence in such a hateful manner to show how crazy they are. I don't recall Martin Luther King burning any books or making hateful speech towards people, I don't recall Ghandi surrounding himself by an armed militia.

Notice, my concern isn't for these morons. I don't care if they burn some books and Al Qaeda targets them. They wanted to prove/protest/say what they wanted to, they are the ones who should suffer the consequences. My concern is for the innocent people who may die as a result of these people's actions. But I guess you're unable to see this, or unwilling to concede such a point.

These people are cowards. If they want to really protest these countries and really send a message, then they should actually be self-sacrificing and go over there and send a message. Burning books in the US while surrounding yourself by a small militia and allowing others to suffer the consequences of YOUR actions is a pussy thing to do. If they want to burn books, they should do it in Iran. Otherwise, they're just provoking them because they can. They're nothing more than real life trolls.

9/10/2010 3:27:20 AM

Quote :

"^ but we expect 3rd world shit holes to be filled with shitty people. quote] So you think third world countries are third world because the people are stupid, violent, and hopeless? [quote]What does it mean when Christians in America begin to act like uneducated, poor, dumb 3rd world muslims?[/"

We have a 500 year long tradition in America of killing and oppressing anything that isn't white, and that theology somehow made us a world superpower. Indians, Blacks, and Mexicans have all felt our wrath for centuries. Persecuting over a religion doesn't seem much different.

9/10/2010 8:39:53 AM

Quote :

"My concern is for the innocent people who may die as a result of these people's actions."

If this event leads to anyone's murder by radical Muslims, than that person's death will be the result of the actions of radical Muslims, not some obscure pastor in Gainesville, Florida.

There's no way this pastor can know for sure whether his little bonfire is going to indirectly lead to anyone being killed. That we just assume it will happen should tell you more about the Islamic world than it does about thing else.

9/10/2010 8:58:17 AM

yes. and that's why we won't prosecute the pastor. But we sure as fuck will say that he had a part in it in the court of public opinion. Some Muslims go apeshit when you simply draw a picture of a dude and say it's Muhammad. So it's not a stretch to think that some Muslims might go equally berserk if you burn the Quran.

That being said, yes, moron, there is a parallel between this and the mosque at GZ. both groups have the right to do it, but both acts are in bad taste. Equivalent? No. Similarities? Yes.

9/10/2010 10:16:06 AM

Listen: Our troops are in danger because a group of Islamic fundamentalists gave sanctuary to a group of Islamic terrorists. That's why they're over there, after all. You think you're making them safer by clamping down on obscure pastors in Gainesville, Florida?

If you want to protect the troops, and the rest of us, and our allies, not to mention millions of Muslims who just want to get about living their lives with some kind of dignity, then you should be more concerned about the actual root of the problem.

I personally find book burning to be distasteful, for all the obvious reasons. However, antagonizing and ridiculing fanatics is necessary if you want to win a war of ideas. After all, the more moderate Muslims see radical Muslims going "apeshit" over a few cartoons, the more likely they are to push back. See Iran. See the West Bank. See the Sunni awakening groups. See the entire non-Pashtun population of Afghanistan. Hell, see Muslims in the United States, the vast majority of which are here at least in part because they wanted to get the hell away from these nutjobs, and who comprise one of the most moderate Muslim populations on the planet.

[Edited on September 10, 2010 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2010 12:59:08 PM

I'm not clamping down on anyone. Nor am I advocating such things. I AM saying that these florida douchebags should think about the anger their douchebag actions will generate. Simply mentioning the possibility of it was enough to spark protests and riots.

I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but those protests and riots would not have occurred had the douchebags not announced their intentions to be douchebags. Now, the Muslim douchebags are ultimately responsible for their actions, but don't act like the Christian douchebags don't have a roll in this.

Yes, our troops are already on danger, and these guys being douchebags isn't what put them in danger to begin with. But it is absurd to suggest that doing something fucking inflammatory wouldn't put troops in more danger.

9/10/2010 1:04:55 PM

Quote :

"But it is absurd to suggest that doing something fucking inflammatory wouldn't put troops in more danger."

Going there in the first place put them in more danger. If there's a war on, let's fight it, with our guns and with our brains.

9/10/2010 1:08:58 PM

^^ This.

^ We are fighting it with guns and our brains, but we certainly don't want to have any more deaths than we already have. Our brains are telling us that these assbags in Florida are going to make a difficult situation even worse.

And there are already Muslims and non-Muslims who are protesting the acts of the radicals and trying to bring change to that area through peaceful means. If these people want to help, then they should join with the people who are already trying to bring change without inciting violence.

9/10/2010 1:50:41 PM

Well, I agree that this guy is an idiot and that this particular stunt is not going to contribute much to the war of ideas. However, their are other forms of criticism, ridicule, and even antagonism that are not only acceptable, but necessary. Thinking we can win this struggle without ridiculing Islam is like thinking we could have won the Cold War without deriding Communism. It's pure fantasy. Well intentioned, sure, but completely detached from reality.

9/10/2010 2:13:35 PM

So now he says it is just on hold not cancelled.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11256182

Quote :

"The US pastor who threatened to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of 9/11 says his plans are "on hold". Mr Jones, who leads a small church with 50 followers, initially said the burning had been cancelled. He then said it was only suspended because he was "lied to" over a deal to move an Islamic centre in New York. On Thursday, Mr Jones told reporters he had spent days waiting for a sign from God to cancel the protest, and that the sign had come in the form of a deal with a local imam to relocate a controversial Islamic cultural centre due to be built near Ground Zero in New York. As a result, he said, he was dropping the planned protest and urged his supporters to do the same. However, those behind the cultural centre denied that they ever spoken to the local imam or Mr Jones. Mr Jones then said Imam Muhammad Musri had "clearly, clearly lied to us". "Given what we are now hearing, we are forced to rethink our decision," Mr Jones said. "So as of right now, we are not cancelling the event, but we are suspending it." Mr Musri, from the Islamic Society of Central Florida, said Mr Jones had "stretched his words", and that he had only agreed to fly to New York with Mr Jones on Saturday and speak with the leaders of the Islamic centre project."

And Obama goes religious on the American people:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11265335

Quote :

""It is absolutely important now for the overwhelming majority of American people to hang on to that thing that is best in us - that is our belief in religious tolerance, our clarity about who our enemies are," he said. "I will do everything I can, as long as I am president of the United States, to remind the American people that we are one nation under God. We may call that god different names but we are one nation.""

9/10/2010 2:39:00 PM

Quote :

""I will do everything I can, as long as I am president of the United States, to remind the American people that we are one nation under God. We may call that god different names but we are one nation."""

:barf:

9/10/2010 2:42:30 PM

God damn the assholes that added that to the pledge in 1954.

9/10/2010 2:42:42 PM

Quote :

"But it is absurd to suggest that doing something fucking inflammatory wouldn't put troops in more danger.""

I'm pretty sure radical Islam already has a great reason to attack our troops - we're occupying their land. If their willing to blow themselves up to kill a soldier, I don't think the tipping point will be some idiot lighting a Quran on fire.

^^Hey, maybe Obama is a pantheist. Or, maybe he's just pandering to the masses because it's what he does best.

[Edited on September 10, 2010 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2010 3:44:30 PM

Here's to hoping the blowback occurs solely in the communities that perpetrate this ridiculous shit

9/10/2010 4:05:01 PM

yea. i also hope someone gets killed for non-violent protests.

9/10/2010 4:21:35 PM

I hope there's NO blowback. If there is blowback I hope it's not reasonable Americans who are non-haters

In other words I hope if there are consequences to be dealt with here that they be handled by the people responsible. Stop trying to twist my words out of proportion there are plenty of things I actually mean that are controversial enough to harp on

[Edited on September 10, 2010 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2010 4:22:33 PM