Quote :

"judging someone for wanting their own biological children is like judging someone for NOT wanting their own."

No it's not. Bringing a child into the world when there are millions who already need homes is ludicrous IMO.

Quote :

"it's a personal decision and bobby is right. if both couples are not 100% comfortable with the decision then it shouldn't be done. regardless of what you think is ethical for a "well-off' couple."

You're right, it is a personal decision, and I agree that a couple shouldn't adopt if one person isn't okay with it. It's a selfish decision on that person's part.

[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2011 11:56:27 AM

Quote :

"Bringing a child into the world when there are millions who already need homes is ludicrous IMO."

As you said, that's your opinion, although it's completely judgmental and hypocritical.

Are you even speaking from the experience of someone who has adopted, or just spouting off shit you know nothing about?

4/15/2011 1:08:12 PM

Quote :

"As you said, that's your opinion, although it's completely judgmental and hypocritical. Are you even speaking from the experience of someone who has adopted, or just spouting off shit you know nothing about?"

I don't see how it's hypocritical? Judgmental, sure. If you think I'm wrong, I'm totally open to other points of view.

I wasn't aware I had to adopt a child before I could form an opinion on adoption.

[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 1:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2011 1:17:25 PM

I take back the hypocrite allegation, I thought it was you that was bitching about people judging others for adopting kids, but it was someone else.

However, it is absolutely ignorant to judge people that way. Adoption is not a matter of practicality but an intensely personal family decision. Until you are in a position to understand that, you don't have any right to judge others.

4/15/2011 1:41:28 PM

^^ one could argue that it's a selfish decision if you drive to work instead of ride your bike or take the bus. Or if you buy and wear clothes that were made in chinese sweatshops, etc.

4/15/2011 2:52:21 PM

Quote :

"^^ one could argue that it's a selfish decision if you drive to work instead of ride your bike or take the bus. Or if you buy and wear clothes that were made in chinese sweatshops, etc."

I agree and I'm not trying to say I don't make selfish choices. I don't consider those situations to be comparable, though.

[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 3:21 PM. Reason : vvvv ok ]

4/15/2011 3:05:08 PM

Start a new thread and take it to soap box so we can keep this thread on topic, k?

4/15/2011 3:11:27 PM

Quote :

"have any of yall come across adversity with your decision to adopt? i can't believe some of the stuff i've had "friends" and family members say to me about our decision to do so. (i had one person tell me i was being selfish! o.O)"

My brother and his wife adopted and my Mom was not totally cool about it. She was being selfish about wanting to hold little grand babies, and they adopted elementary school age children. I don't understand at all where she was coming from. She seemed determined to find out why they weren't having "their own" babies, and when they told her it was none of her business she started bugging me for the reason. I told it was none of her business, too, although I don't actually know because it's not my business so I didn't ask. She seems to be past it now, but it was really annoying at the time. Don't let it bother you.

4/15/2011 7:35:23 PM

^yeah, i can see that same attitude in a few people i know.


cody and i made a promise that when we have kids, it's not gonna be because "oooh i want a baby!" its gonna be because "oohhh, i want to help mold a life"

4/15/2011 9:42:06 PM

^^that perfectly describes my mother-in-law. Luckily, the pressure is off because she has three other grandchildren all biological.

4/15/2011 10:13:53 PM

I just want to keep this topic alive. Encourage your friends to consider adoption if they aren't ready for a kid yet and have gotten pregnant. There really aren't any easy options at that point. Have them pray about it (if they are religious), think about their options, and get counseling. There are many families with so much love they want to give to a child (mine being one of them).

5/9/2011 11:02:47 AM

If I could make my cousins give you a couple kids, I would. Most of them start too early and have too many.

5/9/2011 11:06:52 AM

sox, i might have something for you....

someone i know is looking for adoptive families for 2 children. will pm you some info

5/18/2011 11:42:55 AM

I replied to your PM. Thank you so much for thinking of us.

5/18/2011 12:41:31 PM

Still looking, I want people to remember adoption as an option. If you know someone making this hard decision encourage them to consider it. In particular if they would want their kid brought up rooting for NC State I know a great family

6/13/2011 8:42:02 AM

Another month down.

7/13/2011 5:36:44 PM

keep on swimmin man!

7/14/2011 7:22:04 PM

^ +1

7/15/2011 7:42:13 AM

bttt


ive looked into out of country adoptions and everywhere i've looked takes about 5 years.
i've went ahead and asked for the paperwork b/c well i probably should start on that now if takes that long



i'm not sure if im gonna start filling that out or just wait a bit and fill out a domestic one. (which they say the average is about 1.5 years)

cod and i will have to discuss this.... (especially since we plan on haveing a child at some point too heh)

[Edited on August 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM. Reason : sdfdsfds]

8/4/2011 1:11:10 PM

you should adopt one that will be old enough to babysit your biological kids when the time comes.

8/4/2011 1:16:02 PM

hopefully it will be biological kid (singular)

i don't really have the desire to be pregnant, i mean i think it'll be cool, but its not necessary to me, but i know that cody wants a little codmeister and my parents do too and im like ehhhh what the hell.

i honestly would much rather adopt.


[Edited on August 4, 2011 at 1:19 PM. Reason : dsfgdgd]

8/4/2011 1:18:11 PM

Quote :

"we have heard quite a few weird comments about adoption in general like "don't you want one of your own","

I find it very sad that people are willing to spend so much time and energy on things like IVF instead of choosing to adopt.

8/4/2011 3:20:45 PM

i'm actually having an issue with a few family members who seem to think this decision is childish.

they didn't come out there and say it but it's what i gather. :/

8/4/2011 3:51:25 PM

This thread is old but I want to bump in order to encourage anyone considering adoption.

7/14/2012 1:49:56 AM

Quote :

"I wouldn't either, because I see adoption as the only ethical choice for a well-off couple. I believe it's extremely selfish to have your own children when you have the ability to adopt. "

LOL. right.

7/14/2012 1:14:30 PM

Quote :

"I wouldn't either, because I see adoption as the only ethical choice for a well-off couple. I believe it's extremely selfish to have your own children when you have the ability to adopt."

Wow I can't believe it took me a year to find this gem. This may very well be the stupidest thing I have ever read on TWW.

7/14/2012 3:38:01 PM

Haha, please explain how it is not selfish.

7/14/2012 4:07:17 PM

seeing as you're grossly in the minority in believing that, you're the one who should do the explaining

[Edited on July 14, 2012 at 4:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2012 4:27:12 PM

Adoption rulez

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/14/2012 4:42:02 PM

Quote :

"seeing as you're grossly in the minority in believing that, you're the one who should do the explaining"

I have already, read the thread. The other side has failed to explain, and seems to only consist of insulted parents.

7/14/2012 4:59:10 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't have any biological children, because I can't imagine anyone who has actually gone through the process of giving birth to their own child (mother or father) saying that.

I can't speak for everyone on the planet, but for me, children are not just interchangeable lumps of flesh. If they were, then I would tend to agree that adopting in lieu of procreating would make more sense. But that is obviously not the case. I can't go take someone else's baby and love her the same way any more than I could take someone else's parents or wife and love them how I love my parents and wife. There is something amazing and truly awesome about creating a baby with your partner. You get to watch her (I say her because I have a daughter) take her first breath. You see some of you in her, you see some of your partner in her, and you see some stuff that you have no idea where it comes from. Little things like smiles and laughs and faces they make and the way they act.

Once again speaking only for myself, yes, I could probably grow to love a baby/child that was not biologically mine, but I know I would never truly have the attachment I do with my little girl. I think adoption is a wonderful thing, but you can't force it on anyone - just like you can't go and randomly swap baby animals in nature. Sure, if someone chooses to adopt, that is there prerogative, but claiming that they are selfish if they want to have their own biological child is just silly.

7/14/2012 5:07:07 PM

Selfishness is defined as placing your own interests above the interests of others. The fact of the matter is you added another child to the world, when there are already many who still need homes. You did this because you wanted to experience the perceived biological benefits of having your own child.

The only thing you can really argue about is how selfish it actually is.

7/14/2012 5:17:31 PM

Time in the womb plays a major part in a child's development. If it's selfish to want to control the environment that your child develops in, then alright.

There are disorders and behavioral issues linked to mothers with a elevated stress levels. I would imagine that nutritional deficiencies could also have negative effects.

7/14/2012 6:04:27 PM

im not firmly planted on either side of this argument. i can see both sides & would support anyone i knew going through with either decision to the fullest

however why are people so concerned with other peoples decisions?

i think adoption takes a special kind of person or couple. i don't think it's necessarily for everyone. it takes quite a bit of emotional fortitude & to think that every person who wants a child is capable of such a thing is kind of short sighted.

7/14/2012 6:09:13 PM

Quote :

"however why are people so concerned with other peoples decisions?"

Because peoples' decisions have an impact on the world.

Quote :

"i think adoption takes a special kind of person or couple. i don't think it's necessarily for everyone. it takes quite a bit of emotional fortitude & to think that every person who wants a child is capable of such a thing is kind of short sighted."

I don't agree with putting adoption on a pedestal, as if it's something only humanitarians are capable of. I think far more people could adopt, but it's never really considered as a serious option. People just default to having their own. I realize that not everyone can do it, but it doesn't excuse the fact that choosing to conceive is innately selfish.

[Edited on July 14, 2012 at 6:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2012 6:33:45 PM

adultswim, your oversimplification of this issue is mind-boggling.

[Edited on July 14, 2012 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2012 6:38:38 PM

couldn't you say the same for the medical field? someone who has the aptitude to go into nursing or a doctor of any sort, aren't they harming society by not pursuing that as a career option?

obviously a child & a profession are totally different things but they do impact the world

and i think most people are not humanitarians

7/14/2012 7:00:36 PM

damn, someone has swum off the deep end

7/14/2012 7:04:46 PM

^^
Nah, because other occupations are needed as well. We don't need more people. There are better comparisons, and I said before that people (myself included) do selfish things all the time. I'm just saying that this is one of them.

I agree that everyone is not a humanitarian, and that's unfortunate.

7/14/2012 7:09:32 PM

Why are you wasting time on t-dub? Why aren't you doing something right now to benefit those less fortunate than yourself?

Selfish fuck.

7/14/2012 8:04:05 PM

If you're so concerned about the world having too humans already then why don't you go kill yourself?

/retarded logic and unneeded advice

7/14/2012 8:10:40 PM

Y'all sure are offended about one person's opinion.

7/14/2012 8:40:59 PM

I just came here to say mad props to all of you who will adopt. If there is one downside to society, it would be that the next generation will deprived of Joie genes and be one fewer attractive persons.

Quote :

"Bringing a child into the world when there are millions who already need homes is ludicrous IMO."

We hear this bull so often. You know who doesn't pass their genes to the next generation? The people who make this argument. If propensity to this argument has any genetic component at all, it will vanish in a sufficient # of generations.

But that's the way nature works. Reproduction for modern humans is a voluntary thing. The types of humans that exist in the future will consist of those genes that allowed for the rejection of the above logic by the person carrying those genes. That's not a bad thing. I'm sure that in prehistory times reproduction was a... less voluntary activity. We have a novel environment where we understand how a baby is made and how to prevent it if desired. So we should meet people who decide to make babies with either praise or indifference. Negativity isn't really defensible if you have any sense of continued human existence in this universe. So I say props to people who decide to have their own kids too. ...

Unless they don't have the means to care for them. In which case I think evil people like myself should be allowed to commit infanticide as a sacrifice to the gods. Unless, of course, better people like Joie and sox volunteer their own capability to raise a kid. In spite of my brazen unwillingness to ever do the same myself, I fully recognize the service it provides to the next generation. I'm all for other people solving humanity's problems the nonviolent way

[Edited on July 14, 2012 at 8:58 PM. Reason : ]

7/14/2012 8:56:18 PM

Thanks for the well thought out response. You're right, there are holes in my argument, and I should rephrase to say "Neglecting adoption when it is a viable option is selfish". Of course if everyone adopted and didn't have kids, we would die out. That's not currently the case, though.

The rest of your argument boils down to nature vs. nurture. There is a genetic component, but there is also a nurturing component, and there is no consensus on which has the greater effect on personality. Yes, you need people with good genes to reproduce, but adopted kids need good parents as well.

7/14/2012 9:15:21 PM

Quote :

"The rest of your argument boils down to nature vs. nurture. There is a genetic component, but there is also a nurturing component, and there is no consensus on which has the greater effect on personality."

This is how religion has kept a relatively strong hold on a good portion of the population in spite of the fact that virtually no one is converted to religion these days, and people born into a religious community leave it in droves. The religious people reproduce more, because having children is consistent with their values.

I'm not saying that's a good value to have. In fact, the rest of American Christian values are pretty much shit, so this doesn't speak well of correlations to the value of having children. But that's exactly the problem - selfish and mentally bankrupt people sometimes seem like the only ones who value having kids. I know too many cool people who don't want to have anything to do with kids. I'm like okay, I can enjoy your company now, but the next generation will somewhat be deprived of this personality.

Ultimately, there are two kids of inheritance. You gets the genes your parents give you, and you also get the upbringing they give you. Sometimes we need awesome people to take people from less awesome families, and make them awesome.

Thankfully, I'm a bad person so I don't need to worry about giving my junk to the next generation.

7/14/2012 9:33:17 PM

Quote :

"Y'all sure are offended about one person's opinion."

...says the guy who summarily labeled 99.999999% of the human population selfish for their own views on adoption.

How can you adopt a militantly rigid definition of selfish and not expect to get some shit?

7/14/2012 11:17:13 PM

^
Committing one selfish act doesn't make you a selfish person in general. Maybe I should have made that distinction.

And there are plenty of things most people do that are selfish.

[Edited on July 14, 2012 at 11:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2012 11:27:46 PM

How many children has adultswim adopted?

Mother fuckin Evelyn Mercer up in this bitch. Must have been tough raising Marky Mark, Andre 3000, and Tyrese under one roof. You MUST be exhausted!

7/15/2012 3:31:30 AM

Quote :

"but it doesn't excuse the fact that choosing to conceive is innately selfish."

you are either trolling or a loon.

either way, you are a complete shit head.

7/15/2012 7:01:48 AM

Adopt them up

7/15/2012 9:44:01 AM