jesus patriotic christ, that song is fucking epic.

11/8/2010 2:34:50 AM

I'm going to make this my ringtone in hopes of spreading the word.

11/8/2010 5:49:31 AM

Quote :

"It's disturbing how willing Americans are to equate Islam with terrorism"

Look, I'm pretty much with you on the mosque thing (although in a perfect world, I think that they should be a little more sensitive to where they build it). It certainly isn't the prerogative of anyone in America to stop them, or really to even get bent out of shape about it.

...but equating Islam with terrorism isn't even a stretch. Obviously it's only a minority, but there is still a well-established, long-standing tie between the two.

11/8/2010 7:17:19 AM

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap

11/8/2010 8:21:26 AM

Quote :

"...but equating Islam with terrorism isn't even a stretch. Obviously it's only a minority, but there is still a well-established, long-standing tie between the two."

Just like there's a well-established, long-standing tie between Christianity and violent invasion?

11/8/2010 8:41:15 AM

^
No, because he's a Christian, and not at all hypocritical.... lol

(Duke actually supports this war -- he's a religious bigot, too. Whatever he has to tell himself to sleep at night, well....)

11/8/2010 9:07:42 AM

Actually the term "invasion" is too narrow. When Christians want blood, they turn to an organized and state-funded military.

If moderate Muslims are "complicit" for not standing up and causing a ruckus (probably inciting the extremists against them), then what of moderate Christians who pay their income taxes and vote for war-mongers? (Mmm, those sweet military/gubbament contracts. . .)

11/8/2010 9:14:45 AM

^
Yeah, it's a win-win for Duke. He gets a decent paycheck, and gets to help Christianity defeat Islam.

11/8/2010 9:19:08 AM

You fucking moron, I'm agnostic.

11/8/2010 11:33:01 PM

indy trolling itt

11/8/2010 11:36:14 PM

^+1

11/8/2010 11:37:40 PM

Quote :

"No, because he's a Christian, and not at all hypocritical.... lol (Duke actually supports this war -- he's a religious bigot, too."

First of all, you fucking moron, I'm agnostic.

Second, I think that the Iraq war was a bad idea. I "supported" it in the sense that once the can of worms was opened, I felt like we had to see it through. I suppose that's debatable either way from an American-interests perspective, but probably not from the overall human rights standpoint that I think you'd be a huge hypocrite not to view it from.

The Afghan war, I support in the sense that we have to look out for American security interests there. I don't necessarily think that we have to utterly demolish any and all Taliban influence, or install a democracy, or mold them into even a remotely Western society. I think that a perfectly good victory there might not look like much of a victory to the casual observer, but it would come a lot lower cost (material, political, and probably human) than a decisive, traditional victory. The main object of the game, as far as I'm concerned, is to keep Al Qaeda with their heads down and on the run, which will be more like a game of geopolitical whack-a-mole than anything else.


Now, go put on your dunce hat and sit in the corner.

Quote :

"If moderate Muslims are "complicit" for not standing up and causing a ruckus "

While I'd like to see them take a greater stand against the extremist varieties, I don't think that they are complicit.

11/8/2010 11:46:56 PM

^indy may have got uppity.

But you didn't respond to McDanger's initial point about your point about Islam being easily equated with terrorism.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:03 AM. Reason : ]

11/9/2010 12:02:37 AM

I responded to what I had contention with.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:05 AM. Reason : I think McDanger is an asshole, but we don't see things all that differently lots of times.]

11/9/2010 12:04:00 AM

You said that Islam and terrorism were easily equated. ("not a stretch")

Then you said something about how you wished Muslims would take a stand against extremists but that you didn't consider the Muslims complicit when they didn't take a stand...



I'm just saying...you can be a total genius about military issues, but you're still not addressing the absurdity of your original claim: "Obviously it's only a minority, but there is still a well-established, long-standing tie between the two."

If a minority of people doing crazy things can establish a long-standing tie between a group and an action, then I've got a lot of groups to be angry with.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:22 AM. Reason : ]

11/9/2010 12:22:04 AM

Islam and terrorism are not bound by a "well-established, long-standing tie." We can point to a long list of terrorists around the world who came from different religious backgrounds. Jewish organizations in Palestine prior to the creation of Israel. The Tamil Tigers. Tim McVeigh. And, if we want to get into the nitty-gritty, plenty of Crusaders in earlier centuries.

Should moderate and liberal Muslims take a harder line against extremists? Sure. But so should pretty much every religious group. All Christians should unite in condemning the Westboro Baptist Church into nonexistence. All Jews should oppose fanatical Zionists who want to build shitty condos even when it guarantees conflict to keep building. All Hindus should just calm the fuck down when it comes to Mosques that may or may not have been built over the birthplace of Rama.

As usual, we're all a bunch of assholes, let's not single out one bunch of pricks as being more prick-like than all the other pricks.

11/9/2010 12:31:45 AM

I was neither trying to imply that the majority is complicit, nor condemning the Islamic faith. I've already said that I'm on the same side as you guys (against the mosquophobes).

I'm about to go to bed, so I won't get too into the weeds here, but it should be obvious that there is a direct, significant link between Islam and terrorism, though, to a greater extent than there is with any other religion.


Oh, and pet peeve of mine, because I constantly see McVeigh's name invoked as a "Christian terrorist". McVeigh was agnostic, and in any case, not religiously motivated.



[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:45 AM. Reason : ]

11/9/2010 12:44:30 AM

The overriding point is that social, political, and economic conditions have way more to do with terrorism than religion does.

You give me a guy who feels disenfranchised, deprived of opportunities, and generally on the fringe, and I can make you a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh was that guy. So was noted atheist (and person to whom GrumpyGOP was once compared) the Unabomber. All you need is an upset person who feels he can't express himself through a normal channel.

As it happens, a disproportionately large part of the Muslim world is currently in that position. You have college-educated architects who have to live in cinder block homes. You have Muslims from one country, forced to live in another without citizenship because they weren't born there when oil was discovered. And, as always, you have folks who are just plain crazy.

The West doesn't produce a lot of terrorism because there are greater opportunities and, when those are denied, we tend to hand you free money to keep you restricted to petty crime. Latin America doesn't produce a lot of international terrorism because they're either stuck in a class war or more engaged in organized crime than any ideological battle. Africa can barely get its shit together enough to fight itself. East Asia gets to worry about China instead of us. In short, the only place in the world where you get the right mixture of resources, marginalization, and anger is the Muslim world -- and they manage to accomplish all of this without a whole hell of a lot of need for religion. Does Islam help? Sure. But if you put the goddamn Mormons in the same position I could have them blowing people up day after tomorrow.

11/9/2010 12:51:30 AM

Quote :

"We can point to a long list of terrorists around the world who came from different religious backgrounds. Jewish organizations in Palestine prior to the creation of Israel. The Tamil Tigers. Tim McVeigh. And, if we want to get into the nitty-gritty, plenty of Crusaders in earlier centuries."

You forgot large swaths of the United States military

Quote :

"All Christians should unite in condemning the Westboro Baptist Church into nonexistence. All Jews should oppose fanatical Zionists who want to build shitty condos even when it guarantees conflict to keep building. All Hindus should just calm the fuck down when it comes to Mosques that may or may not have been built over the birthplace of Rama. As usual, we're all a bunch of assholes, let's not single out one bunch of pricks as being more prick-like than all the other pricks."

You really think Christians' best example to stand with the Zionists are the Westboro people, rather than the hordes of "respectable hardworking Americans" whose votes have produced bloodbaths?

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 10:18 AM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 10:16:27 AM

Victory [places of worship]? See: Vatican

11/9/2010 10:39:28 AM

^^^ Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. The causal link may be relatively weak, but the correlation is obvious and significant.

11/9/2010 10:26:45 PM

bttt

11/12/2010 2:28:06 PM