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11/24/2010 9:38:30 AM

And nothing about your claimed values are liberal/conservative anyway.

In recent history, “conservative” presidents have contributed to the deficit far more than “liberal” presidents. Clinton was the first president in decades to manage a balanced budget, and the first thing the conservative Bush does is undo all that work.

In the past 30 years Reagan and Bush were the top 2 contributors to the budget deficit until the current recession, which is the worst since the great depression (and started under Bush…).

Obama’s been trying to get tax cuts pushed through for months now, only to be stalled by the conservatives because the demographic of income earners to grow their income the most through the recession apparently can’t handle a ~3% tax increase, this is somehow unacceptable while everyone else has their pays cut or is losing their job.

Liberalism isn’t characterized by supporting taxes or spending, this is a trait that conservatives have demonstrated far more.

11/24/2010 9:39:54 AM

Quote :

"This is always going to happen, one way or another. Either through the cost of goods/services, or through taxes."

not really. if we let people die who can't support themselves and their families, then the problem goes away. instead we subsidize it, thus creating more of it

if liberalism isn't characterized by spending, then please explain SS, medicare, obamacare, SCHIP, porkulus, FDR...

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 9:41 AM. Reason : ]

11/24/2010 9:39:57 AM

You can be a passionate liberal forever if you have a trust fund that allows you to drink premium beer while earning PBR money.

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 9:42 AM. Reason : o]

11/24/2010 9:41:43 AM

Quote :

"You can be a passionate liberal forever if you have a trust fund and drink premium beer."

i don't have a trust fund, but i think i'll stick with the good beer

if i ever become poor enough that i can't justify buying the good stuff, i don't need to be drinking, anyway

11/24/2010 9:43:50 AM

you sound like you are well on your way to being a conservative!

11/24/2010 9:44:30 AM

...me?

hardly.

11/24/2010 9:45:12 AM

11/24/2010 9:45:34 AM

saying you shouldn't buy shit if you can't afford it as almost the epitome of conservatism, lol

11/24/2010 9:45:44 AM

no, that's common sense and fiscal responsibility

neither of which conservatives are known for (in practice, i mean, not in theory)

11/24/2010 9:46:37 AM

itt jackleg assumes his experiences are universal

11/24/2010 10:01:45 AM

jackleg's done it all, dude...he has more life experience than the whole of tww combined

11/24/2010 10:12:20 AM

WELCOME TO THE TROLLERCOASTER

11/24/2010 10:21:37 AM

^^^^^hatred of freedom and the rights of those who are different is the epitome of conservatism

11/24/2010 1:15:21 PM

James, will you please say hello to Megan for me?

11/24/2010 1:22:32 PM

Quote :

"while i fundamentally might be opposed to homosexuality in general, it has no business being regulated by the government...as an example if they have been bound by marriage in one state, it should be honored in all states. "

gotta give credit where credit's due, this is a good opinion

11/24/2010 4:38:39 PM

i stopped in to say that i am out of college, worked both during college and grad school (aka have been "taxed to death" since i was 15) and i don't see myself swinging right anytime soon. i think my viewpoints have definitely shifted SOME during the past few years, but all on the left side of the spectrum.

and if i were more moderate, i would definitely not shift right at this point in time with all the tea partiers. i'd hate to be associated with that if i were a conservative. and while i can respect an intellectual conservative's viewpoints and arguments (note: intellectual. this does not include your glenn/sarah brigade), i will never be able to get on board with the current anti-intellectual + bigotry formula that seems to be currently in place over there on the right side OR the fact that proponents of the right don't even seem to give a shit that it is going on (i mean to me, not giving a shit and being outspoken about it = acceptance to me. even though a lot of my conservative friends are totally against the tea party movement. but still...silence? not really working out for ya). in my opinion, if ANYTHING, it is this fundamentalist wing of the conservative party that is going to be the nail in this country's coffin NOT idealism on the part of college educated 20-somethings.

and p.s. while i feel for the "TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY" blue collar worker in his bald eagle flag t-shirt and jorts, i would like to point out that most tax cuts proposed by his party wouldn't even come CLOSE to helping him out.

that is all just my opinion of course. and we know i'm crazy/dumb so, take it for what you will. also, i hate using party terms because i don't really know what either party stands for anymore.

also shout out to my boy BigHitSunday. don't always agree with him, but i like his style.

peace, love and happiness,
khcadwal

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 10:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/24/2010 10:04:43 PM

^^I agree, the gov not regulating bad judgment into law is a good thing. Although that's more of a libertarian viewpoint than conservative. Conservative law makers tend to be all for regulating sex, marriage, abortion, sex ed, contraceptives, and all that. It was nice to see the Libertarian candidate in the senate race call out Burr on such positions.

Quote :

"and p.s. while i feel for the "TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY" blue collar worker in his bald eagle flag t-shirt and jorts, i would like to point out that most tax cuts proposed by his party wouldn't even come CLOSE to helping him out."

To khcadwal's point, I'd just throw in a reference to this thread:

"47% of Tea Partiers Pay No Federal Income Taxes!"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=592914

11/24/2010 10:30:24 PM

Quote :

"It was a type of argument called The Straw Man."

Actually, your post was a straw man argument. You asserted that I said that conservatives don't want taxes. I never asserted that at all. I asserted that they want lower taxes. Is this false? Every conservative movement and the US definition of a conservative labels them as people in favor of low taxes and low government spending.

And many conservatives aren't reasonable. They just read talking point memos "we need lower taxes," while rarely offering up ideas to cut spending. I even conceded to some of their arguments, such as abuses within the system hurts everyone. Many of the arguments I disputed have been put forth by conservative commentators and conservatives I know in real life. They never want to cut education, the military or medicare. Three things that account for about 1/3 of our budget, maybe even more.

Then there are other things they always want cut, like medicaid. But they never examine the repercussions of doing that, and how it will affect them. Poverty is something we all pay for, directly or indirectly. They are risk to companies and drains on charities. Our economy is consumption based. It's a vicious cycle. We need people to buy. People can't buy if they have no money.

Quote :

"I can think of plenty of ways the government can cut spending and waste, and I'd be happy to list a group out after I find the database I wanted to show you guys."

There are definitely ways to eliminate waste, but the question is how much can you cut without actually cutting services/entitlements/welfare/ect to other people? Can you cut billions? Or is it just millions by consolidating some of the agencies and services into each other, which helps cut administration costs? You're talking about drops in a bucket.

Quote :

"I do, however take issue with mommy letting her power bill go into 'FINAL NOTICE' status so she can run up to DSS and pick up a 300 dollar check - and then spend that little bit of cash she had at the nail salon, instead of on her 6 poverty-stricken kids."

But how often does this happen? For every person who is abusing the system, I can find more people who actually need it. People who are walking 6 miles a day to work just to be poor. People working double shifts to keep the lights on. People who abuse the system suck. I wouldn't be sad if they all got AIDS. But how do you stop them? The only way to do it is through more administration. More people who watch those in the system to ensure they're not just abusing it. But that costs money.

Quote :

"4.5%=/=25%"

25% was off the top of my head. Looks like I was pretty damn close.

11/24/2010 10:58:29 PM

learn Wikipedia

btw idk why this has "2007" in its filename when it says "2009" in the image

11/24/2010 11:23:27 PM