This question isn't worth starting a new thread for...

But how much is stability worth?

Is it worth taking a job that pays 10% less with nearly double the insurance premium? I'm in this boat right now.

4/27/2011 8:20:23 PM

It is classless and tacky to even hint at salary before offered the job.

4/27/2011 8:34:20 PM

Was that to me? Cause I have the offer in hand and need to make a decision by next week.

4/27/2011 8:42:29 PM

fyi for iheartkisses in reference to "how do you take X salaried amount and adjust to hourly adjusted for benefits"

These are ballpark percentages that I've seen hold pretty true for almost 10 years:

Benefit - % of base salary

Health Care - 25%
401k - 5-10%
Disability - 10%

So if you make 70k on salary and have health care, 401k and disability, you should be asking for 100-105k as a contract/hourly wage to offset those costs.

In reality the employer usually pays more than this (benefits for employees routinely run 70-100% of paid salary), so you're leveraging their expenses against your own risk. This is why you see contractors all the time who charge 2-3x what you make for the same job.

I think asking for a 15k bump to go hourly w/o benefits is selling yourself extremely short.

4/27/2011 10:23:41 PM

Quote :

"Is it worth taking a job that pays 10% less with nearly double the insurance premium? I'm in this boat right now."

What kind of insurance?

Life insurance? Medical? Disability?

Compare the cost of premium on your own to the pay difference. All other things equal (you like the jobs the same, etc), it's really just a judgement call for you. If you're healthy and young, I would keep your higher salary. If you have kids or some serious medical conditions, the insurance may be worth the pay decreas

4/27/2011 10:26:01 PM

It's health insurance. And the premium increases from 240/mo. to 680/mo. (so more than originally thought), which is ridiculous, IMO. That would pull the gross income down 900-1000/mo.

4/27/2011 10:39:04 PM

yes, it's worth the pay drop then

4/28/2011 2:09:35 AM

So, you're saying that taking a 10% decrease in pay AND paying almost TRIPLE what I pay now for health insurance is worth it?

4/28/2011 7:23:27 AM

I have to assume he misread that.

you say the tradeoff is stability. In what sense of the word? Does your current job have a high chance of being eliminated, or are you traveling all over the place?

i'd have a hard time taking a 10% pay cut and nearly triple the insurance premium. Have you looked into 3rd party insurance such as BCBS? Does your wife's job offer health coverage?

4/28/2011 8:23:48 AM

Quote :

" It is classless and tacky to even hint at salary before offered the job."

No it's not. Companies ask for your expected salary. It's standard to answer that question. Besides, I know the pay scale for the job bc an HR rep told me. Salary is important to discuss.

4/28/2011 8:47:47 AM

Quote :

"No it's not. Companies ask for your expected salary. It's standard to answer that question"

Important to answer with "I expect a competitive salary + benefits package for the responsibilities of the job"

4/28/2011 8:49:26 AM

Unfortunately, online forms don't always allow for that. In some cases (like this one), the online form is rejected until you submit a valid dollar amount.

[Edited on April 28, 2011 at 8:54 AM. Reason : J]

4/28/2011 8:53:47 AM

$Texas or $Negotiable wasn't allowed I take it?

Interesting though, I haven't heard of that (though I haven't looked for a job / applied in awhile. That's sneaky though.

4/28/2011 9:01:24 AM

Quote :

"I have to assume he misread that. you say the tradeoff is stability. In what sense of the word? Does your current job have a high chance of being eliminated, or are you traveling all over the place? i'd have a hard time taking a 10% pay cut and nearly triple the insurance premium. Have you looked into 3rd party insurance such as BCBS? Does your wife's job offer health coverage?"

I'll choose to assume that, as well.

Stability meaning we've had some tough times here (we're a gov't contractor doing work for EPA) where things have been pretty slow. But this place has been here for 30 years through good and bad. So I don't know. The other job is a state government position and we all know they never fire anyone short of sexual harassment or blowing something up. Looked at 3rd parties such as BCBS and it's still crazy-ass expensive. Wife is currently disabled and not working, so there's that, plus we've got a shit-ton of medical bills due to her situation.

RESPONSIBILITY SUCKS DUDE.

4/28/2011 9:07:03 AM

^^ LOL $Texas would be funny, but not permitted per their online form. This is actually fairly standard for extremely large companies. It was the case for my current job. And this new company is larger. I assume it's a method designed to save time for HR.

4/28/2011 9:17:01 AM

^^

that does seem like a crappy situation. I'm clearly wrong, but I always thought the upside of government jobs was that while the pay was lower than the private sector, benefits like healthcare were supposedly better.

That's definitely a tough decision... good luck to you.

4/28/2011 9:20:17 AM

Quote :

"The other job is a state government position and we all know they never fire anyone short of sexual harassment or blowing something up."

Or massive budget cuts forcing widespread layoffs.

Quote :

"but I always thought the upside of government jobs was that while the pay was lower than the private sector, benefits like healthcare were supposedly better. "

I think maybe this used to be the case (at least NC government, maybe fed is still good I don't know).

4/28/2011 9:40:56 AM

Holy hell I misread Senez's post completely.

FUCK NO you shouldn't leave your current job for one that pays less with double the premiums. Stay where you are and keep looking for jobs that don't completely screw you.

Or, counteroffer on the job offer you have to account for the pay and benefits differences. Ask them for 20% more to cover the insurance premiums and 10% difference.

4/28/2011 3:08:18 PM

Quote :

"that does seem like a crappy situation. I'm clearly wrong, but I always thought the upside of government jobs was that while the pay was lower than the private sector, benefits like healthcare were supposedly better. "

the contractor part is what makes the difference. there is a huge difference between being a gov't contractor and an actual certified government employee in terms of the benefits offered (you're correct when talking about actual honest-to-goodness fed employees).

4/28/2011 3:15:19 PM

^well what's happening is the offer for a state government position has shittier health benefits than the currentlyy held private contractor

I think

4/29/2011 7:40:56 AM

Well, the health benefits with the state are better, but I don't think they're 3x the premium better. In talking with my current boss, the idea was tossed out by me to become a casual employee (while I still have work to do) and keep me on part-time if I were to except the state position. I already have another job I work as a consultant, so that would put 3 jobs in my pocket.

That sounds fun.

4/29/2011 6:23:21 PM

State government is about to layoff people like a mother fucker. DOT has always been one of the untouched because of massive federal support but I know one specific group in DOT is about to lose 600 full-time state employees (not contractors or temps). Yes, its much less stressful (I'm a programmer and CAN'T work more than 40 hours a week) but I could go get a 50%-75 pay increase with a couple of different standing offers I have. However, its still better where I'm at (simply cause my wife makes bank and my job is cake). Our benefits in state govt. suck and get worse every year. My copays, deductibles, etc are 3-5 times what my wife pays with her private company insurance. There is ZERO 401k matching in state government. There is no such thing as performance based pay or raises of any kind. State government work will also make you less marketable because you are always going to be way behind the technology curve. I have to work my ass off in free time just to stay remotely relevant as a programmer because we are probably about 10 years behind industry practices (not exaggerating).

Federal government is great: my sister went from police detective to ATF inspector and more than doubled her pay, plus paid workout time, car use, and work-from-home. They will have cuts but pay and benefits are much better than state.

From what you've said, I'd stay where you are and keep looking.

4/29/2011 10:29:48 PM

The only reason I hesitate is because i don't want to be out of a job come this fall, which is possible at this point given what may happen with the federal budget. We just laid someone off a few weeks ago.

And the position I'd be moving into is in no danger whatsoever of being cut. And my area of expertise doesn't lend itself to too many job openings. Doesn't help that with my family situation, I'm in no position to be mobile and look outside NC.

4/29/2011 11:11:52 PM

I honestly don't understand it: I am currently in academia, and I have been wanting to get into industry. What I don't understand is that the positions I am being interviewed for want to offer me a lower salary than what I am making here, and I am not making very good money at all. WTH Industry?!

5/3/2011 3:22:46 PM

Start date is June 5. Finally!

5/8/2011 10:50:59 PM

congrats! did it still end up being the contractor role?

what percent over the 70k did you ask for/get, if you don't mind answering.

also, in addition to Noen's post, keep in mind if you're a contractor, you are responsible for making quarterly tax payments and also, as a self-employed contractor, you have to pay self-employment tax (social security and medicare) which is about 15%. usually when you're an employee, your employer pays half (think of it as another benefit in addition to health insurance, 401k, etc) and the other half comes out of your paycheck. when you're self-employed, you have to pay for all of it. be sure to factor that into your contracted rate

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 12:21 AM. Reason : more]

5/9/2011 12:21:04 AM

Yes, took the contractor role. Does the tax question still apply if I'm contracting through an agency that offers benefits? (health insurance options, accrued vacation time, etc)

Increase is approx 15% over the original salary to cover for out-of-pocket benefits.

5/9/2011 12:36:44 AM

No

5/9/2011 10:48:26 AM

congrats

5/9/2011 10:51:47 AM

^^ whew. Thanks.

^ thxu dude Sad thing will be losing my hotel discounts. But I'll live.

5/9/2011 11:34:57 AM

I would look at your first pay stub to verify that your SS/medicare tax is paid for.

5/9/2011 11:39:09 AM

^ Good call. I'll be careful to pay attention to that.

5/9/2011 11:58:12 AM

I should start paying attention to information like this should I choose to rotate back into the civilian world.

Then again... I'm not sure I want to leave as I have excelled where I have been in the past 6 years.

5/9/2011 12:47:16 PM