2

12/31/2010 9:41:04 PM

Quote :

"before they degrade to putting out less than half the power they originally had"

This was very common for older PV panels. It's less likely nowadays, now many panels are certified to retain a certain percentage of their output after X years. I cannot recall the exact numbers at this time, but they've come a long way from the 70s & 80s period. Also, this means it's usually not a good idea to buy old old panels, because they're likely outputting much less than their original rating.

Quote :

"solar power means solar collectors boiling water to make steam to power a steam turbine"

Yeah, I think this is what we're likely to see the next 10 yrs or so, or until PV makes HUGE efficiency gains and cost reductions. The land reductions alone would help reduce startup costs. We have ALOT of experience with steam turbine plants and are good at coupling them to other heat sources.

Still, there are alot of specialized implementations for PV, such as remote instrumentation for example. I think what we're seeing is a struggle between traditional tech vs. new tech. Like I said above, we're very good with heat engines: steam turbine plants, internal combustion engines, etc. We could push for biofuels, which would be difficult (if not impossible) to completely fuel our vehicle fleet, because we KNOW internal combustion (mind you there's always room for improvement). Or, we could launch off after hydrogen cars (which need safe storage mechanisms and a distributed system for charging) or maybe electric cars (energy density of storage still being the biggest issue IMO).

I think the government incentives are not necessarily in place because we need to have renewable electricity sources, but because many other countries are investing in the tech and our government doesn't want us to be behind in the tech race (again, this is my opinion).

12/31/2010 9:47:42 PM

I can imagine if you took a bunch of older undamaged panels, test them for approximate uniformity, and re-string them with more panels per array to bring the voltage back up to optimal, you could use old panels just fine as long as it isn't a surface area limited application. There's no moving parts here after all and the materials don't de-laminate or cloud up or anything as far as I know. And the figure I've heard as recently as last week is the industry has a standard guarantee of 25 years for all equipment. Output drop off now a days is: (can't find it in my notes just now, I remember that it is NOT negligible but is predictable, it can be compensated for, as long as you don't have too high a voltage during the break-in period) But it's likely to last far longer or be obsolete by then. Disposal of these panels is still an unresolved issue, but then, so are nuclear fuel rods, and "disposal" of fossil fuels is in our water and air, etc.

12/31/2010 10:41:28 PM

tapdancing Christ.

Quote :

"Do not consecutively reply to a topic - If you are within the alloted timespan for editing a message that no one has replied to and you think of something to add, EDIT the message. DO NOT REPLY AGAIN. Constant abuse of this will not be tolerated. "

1/1/2011 1:03:19 AM

this thread makes my brain hurt.

1/1/2011 8:37:06 PM

Just to give you guys an update: haven't gotten any callbacks on the financial product or the celebrity securitization thereof or the prius club emulation. I'm still going to post a bunch more stuff in here, but I just wish there was more activity in here.

1/2/2011 2:38:06 AM

Just to give you an update, not a single person gives 2 shits about anything you've said at all.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:57 AM. Reason : ever in the history of your life.]

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:58 AM. Reason : not even your mom. ]

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:58 AM. Reason : sorry dude. ]

1/2/2011 2:54:34 AM

TSB in my Chit Chat?!?!

1/2/2011 7:34:12 AM

Quote :

"This was very common for older PV panels."

Its still the norm for the cheap panels coming out of China.

1/2/2011 10:06:10 AM

AKA the ones you'll get if you'll get unless you know how to write a PV spec that's awesome and going to get VE'ed off the project.

1/2/2011 10:30:04 AM

sumfoo1 please explain that "write a PV spec" thing, sounds like some engineering shit I need to know and is EXACTRY why I'm posting all my ideas in here.

got more calls in to finance professionals this morning. i think the holidays are why i'm not getting any love. maybe i start sending gifts or introduction cards or something. maybe i need to be doing this in person.

1/2/2011 11:09:19 AM

You called 'finance professionals' on a Sunday morning? Get the fuck outta here.

1/2/2011 11:12:29 AM

why did this bullshit thread get moved anywhere other than the trash bin?

1/2/2011 11:47:04 AM

give the guy credit for trolling tech-talk for almost an entire page!

1/2/2011 11:51:08 AM

Ok when you build a building you specify all the equipment that's going into it as well as showing it on the drawings. The specifications section is where you say what standards the equipment must meet and the materials it will be made with along with installation and testing procedures.

Now typically when writing a specification for an owner you can't make it so specific that only 1 manufacturer can meet it. If you do make it that specific that manufacturer will know they can over price their product because it is the only product on the market that can be installed. Now, If you do make it too specific and the project goes over budget then the owner will "Value Engineer" some of the equipment out of the project and PV will be the first thing to go.

Also if you do not make the specification specific enough you get trash from china installed on your job made with questionable materials and probably assembled in a sweat shop.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 12:02 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2011 11:59:37 AM

Pro:

Solar power is clean

Cons:
Solar panels still take up too much space.
Solar panels are still expensive
Solar panels need to replaced after X years.
Solar panels get damaged by weather and a freak events.
Solar panels are not immune to manufacture errors.
Just like gasoline, it is proven that using less as a whole, the power companies will still raise their prices. Are we saving money?

1/2/2011 12:36:14 PM

Fuckin arm chair engineer over here gonna solve the world's photovoltaic challenge in a college forum mostly inhabited by drunks and trolls

I like where this is going

If you were serious you'd be doing this on linkedin

1/2/2011 12:39:50 PM

i, too, took MAE421 as an elective.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 1:50 PM. Reason : and i smell a new meme with the OP...]

1/2/2011 1:48:21 PM

The thing about outside sales that made it so successful was that it had the intro of "I realize this thread is about...which I know nothing about. However...". A block of text with similar success would need that intro as well. Otherwise you're just posting a big block of nothing.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 1:57 PM. Reason : lkj]

1/2/2011 1:56:41 PM

Lets dump everything we know about solar technology [thread topic] in here, TWW; technical, political, financial, everything is welcome. This in my new industry, I am investing all my money and time and I need your help. I've been taking classes in this for a while now and will be doing much more in the near future culminating in a new business venture to begin within a year. I have just broken my arm so I have lots of down time and can't really study that hard because of the meds, so lets just chat it up for the next few days. I especially hope to hear from all of the encouraging, helpful people from whom I've been receiving PM's. Lets get it all out there and discuss it, maybe even get some google docs going. By day, you can grind away at your engineering jobs but your heart can be here with me in Florida. Our mission is to reach critical mass and start a Photovoltaic [thread topic] Revolution!

1/2/2011 2:21:09 PM

he has a point

1/2/2011 2:26:59 PM

ah, gotcha. i like that actually

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:27 PM. Reason : l]

1/2/2011 2:27:19 PM

i mean, there's so little actual substance in that post that you only need to change 2 little spots to apply it to anything.

1/2/2011 2:28:13 PM

Can we just bucket this fucking alias. Maybe on the second $5 go around he'll make better use of it and make a better alias.

1/2/2011 2:38:47 PM

Quote :

"Chance, every application is highly unique, we don't do straight answers in this industry."

so, basically, you are just full of shit. Seems like a "straight answer" should be pretty easy.

Quote :

"and going to cause annual Armageddon for the 90% of the population that lives close to sea level through climate change and starvation?"

Ahhh, I see you've bought the climate change kool-aid, too. good work! Keep fearing those evil sea-level rises of 1.8mm/year!

1/2/2011 2:58:13 PM

I work for a solar company in ilm.... if you have any serious questions about PV or thermal, please feel free to pm me. I can answer basic questions through tww or pass on my contact info for more in-depth technical or financial questions.

1/2/2011 5:30:58 PM

^ What is "ilm" ? Sounds like a cool job

1/2/2011 5:32:58 PM

Industrial Light & Magic

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 5:36 PM. Reason : actually i doubt that]

1/2/2011 5:35:22 PM

Wilmington

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 5:36 PM. Reason : how do you upload pics?]

1/2/2011 5:35:53 PM

^photo_mygallery.aspx

"Add Photos" top right

or use the image button when you make a post

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM. Reason : lkj]

1/2/2011 5:52:43 PM

Quote :

"TSB Tech Talk in my Chit Chat?!?!"

BTW....

Quote :

"CELEBRITY SECURITIZATION THEREOF"

Quote :

"PRIUS CLUB EMULATION"

1/2/2011 5:59:51 PM

El Nachó said:

Quote :

"Just to give you an update, not a single person gives 2 shits about anything you've said at all. [Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:57 AM. Reason : ever in the history of your life.] [Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:58 AM. Reason : not even your mom. ] [Edited on January 2, 2011 at 2:58 AM. Reason : sorry dude. ]"

aha

1/2/2011 6:03:27 PM

I get all these very helpful comments by PM but this thread is getting over-run with crouching masturbators. Refocus time: ok, I am getting the impression that the technical stuff is just easy and there's plenty of people way smarter than me doing a good job there. Manufacturing is doing great, they're doing all that over in China. As far as installation, there's lot's of small businesses that have been in this business a long time already that focus on cash customers for their bread and butter but are probably able to serve anyone as long as they get paid. prolly thousands of ex-electricians, plumbers, etc all better at small business than I will ever be. I don't have any contracting experience and I don't really want to baby-sit laborers for a living. I love to be passionate and chat people up (even though in my personal life, I have a hard time with friendship because I'm too intense), all the good people seem to really love my unflinching sincerity and genuine passion. I think I should just focus on sales and quality control. I will just develop this new financing strategy and focus all my efforts on getting the lending dollars to flow over to the green borrowers. I can sub-contract out the actual installation to whomever I think can do the best job at the best price. I was sort of already doing this anyway, I just didn't realize it was going to lead to a specialization. I was originally just going to talk to people in small groups but now I'm envisioning dinner speeches. I guess I better take some interpersonal communication classes or something or start video taping myself. maybe i get a web cam and use my livestream to practice. Whatever it takes for the revolution!

[Edited on January 3, 2011 at 12:13 AM. Reason : gramr]

1/2/2011 11:54:10 PM

somefoo1, I want to see a example of that specification sheet where you have to be careful to balance specificity to get the best quality/dollar. is there somewhere online u can see that stuff or do I need to go visit an engineering office or something? maybe u post some pics or upload a document ITT? In return, I award 1 internet. My initial reaction is that I think the new construction field is pretty much going to go green on its own or at the hands of some LEED Engineers, that won't be my focus: but I still want to know about it. I will just focus on the vast wilderness of existing structures I think.

1/3/2011 12:04:01 AM

test of putting a pic on TWW



[Edited on January 3, 2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason : new pic]

its not working!! why!!! wat i do? how u make quotes and post pics on here?

[Edited on January 3, 2011 at 12:16 AM. Reason : .]

oh and avg sea level only has to rise a few inches for it to cause CATASTROPHIC damage during storms and floods. the damage doesn't increase linearly with sea level rise, duh. 90% of our stuff is built right at the water's edge. Do you realize that there in no intellectually honest debate about this? Millions of dollars are being spent on dis-information campaigns publicly by the Plutocracy to convince you these facts are still being debated. Commercial radio spouts this message at maximum kilowatts 24hrs a day. They'd just outright deny it if people were as stupid as they were in the 20th century. They'd just lock your ass up and ship you off to Australia if this were the 19th century.

[Edited on January 3, 2011 at 12:31 AM. Reason : ..]

1/3/2011 12:09:56 AM

STOP THE TRIPLE POSTING

1/3/2011 6:26:11 AM

Here's some pics...






The best job in solar is designing.

1/3/2011 7:23:41 AM

yea, it's fun to design the system even if there is great software that comes with that solar pathfinder thing. especially when you're integrating multiple sources like a wind power system and PV. J.R.Ewing is now the spokesman for SolarWorld, lol.

1/3/2011 11:04:25 PM

You can get manufacturer's guide specs online. Don't bother, quit now while you're ahead. Leave it to the professionals who know what they're doing. If you want to be one of the salesmen who buys me lunch once a month but never finds himself in my specs go ahead, I'm perfectly fine with that.

1/4/2011 10:28:39 AM

Progress is being made, slowly. I have a lunch scheduled with an investment adviser/ MTB friend that can put me in touch with LOTS of moneyed investors, this being Ocala, but I have no financial product in place. Study for my various licenses is progressing slowly too as I've been spending too much time chatting up girls. I think I have found the perfect one though and guess what. She's in Raleigh and went to State. What are the odds! So far I have written her love poetry personalized to her specific field and personality, she said "she won't be influenced by my sweet talk until we meet in person" lololol This is extra cute because her English isn't so good. I'm sorry I've neglected this thread for a week, the trolls always chase me away from TWW.

1/13/2011 8:27:39 AM