Quote :

"So in all likelihood if someone ever breaks in I'll walk up to them half asleep to talk about cats."

A++

12/29/2010 12:28:27 PM

i think you can only shoot someone if they attack you, and only after you let them know that you have a gun. so if they run, you can't shoot.

12/29/2010 12:30:30 PM

You paranoid motherfuckers are going to shoot a drunk room mate or spouse someday

12/29/2010 12:30:31 PM

^^If he's dead he can't say you didn't warn him. So make sure you shoot him enough to kill him.

Before he hits the ground, obviously.

12/29/2010 12:32:38 PM

Quote :

"You paranoid motherfuckers are going to shoot a drunk room mate or spouse someday"

hey, mickey d, wanna be my roommate? i'll buy you all the alcohol you want

12/29/2010 1:04:32 PM

Quote :

"This thread reminded me of something. A couple weeks ago, I was happily sleeping in my bed and I heard this weird noise from the living room (sounded like it was coming from the hall near my front door). Gambit immediately popped up and started howling, then jumped down and ran to the front door. He sat there snarling at it for a while then continued to sit there for a good 10-15 minutes, occasionally growling again or doing this weird snort. He finally came back to my room but it made me feel safe nonetheless"

Ghost.

Quote :

"1) Grab your cell phone 2) Leave the house 2a) Call the cops while leaving the house 3) Go to a neighbors house where you can watch the robbery to get a description of the men, the car, license plate, etc. Seriously, shooting someone is a messy, messy prospect emotionally and legally and should only be a last resort. Anyone stupid enough cavalier about it doesn't need to be listened to."

yup.

Quote :

"I would like to hear someone talk seriously and with authority about the legality of just shooting a burglar seems to me that it ought to be legal, but I've heard that it's not"

In NC burglars have legal protection and a right to your stuff. They do not have a right to harm you while they steal your stuff. If they break in and are about the walk out of the door with your property, you are not allowed to harm them if they are not hurting you (or threatening you).

In TX you are legally allowed to shoot a burglar/thief, or even someone who is stealing from a neighbor. We are not TX.

Quote :

"I believe its something along the lines of you can't shoot someone who is standing out side your house, you can't shoot someone who is standing in your house, but you can shoot them if they are actively breaking into your house."

Exactly.

Quote :

"and only after you let them know that you have a gun. so if they run, you can't shoot."

What?? That makes no sense.

Quote :

"My wife and kids are barricaded in the bedroom with wife on the phone to the cops and I have my shotgun pointed at the door and my carry gun on my hip. And hopefully my little yipper dog is giving the intruder's ankles hell This is if I think someone is already in the house. If they aren't in yet, I go out into the living area to meet them with my shotgun and carry gun while wife and kids are in the bedroom calling the cops."

No. How would you know if they are in the house or not? You have a duty to protect your family. So round up the kids and wife, barricade yourself in the best room and call the police. Let them know you have an intruder, that you are armed and what room you are in. Going looking for trouble and leaving your family alone is dumb.

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 1:18 PM. Reason : d]

12/29/2010 1:15:41 PM

Quote :

"In NC burglars have legal protection and a right to your stuff."

i believe that you're using the term "right" incorrectly...i'm quite certain that burglars have no legal "right" to steal from someone

i get what you're saying, but it's more that the homeowner does NOT have the right to shoot someone, rather than the burglar having a "right" to being protected or to take whatever they want

12/29/2010 1:18:38 PM

Could you call the 911 operator and be like "There is someone in my house! I have a gun!" then shout a whole bunch and act like the burglar is trying to mess with you? They record all of the 911 operator conversations right? I'm pretty sure that recording would help out.

12/29/2010 1:25:14 PM

Quote :

"hey, mickey d, wanna be my roommate? i'll buy you all the alcohol you want"

You already tricked one person with this ploy

12/29/2010 1:27:04 PM

Quote :

"In NC burglars have legal protection and a right to your stuff. They do not have a right to harm you while they steal your stuff. If they break in and are about the walk out of the door with your property, you are not allowed to harm them if they are not hurting you (or threatening you). "

"a right to your stuff" ahahhaha

12/29/2010 1:29:08 PM

what about less-than-lethal ammo in a shotgun?

what's the legality on that?

12/29/2010 1:31:51 PM

The problem with not killing someone is you have to deal with them suing you. If someone gets hurt in the process of breaking into your house they can sue you. I heard about a guy who won a lawsuit after falling through someone's skylight.

12/29/2010 1:33:11 PM

Personal defense:
1. You believe deadly force is req'd to prevent imminent death, bodily harm, or sexual assault.
2. An ordinary person would also believe the same.
3. You didn't start it or escalate it to the point that deadly force was required.
4. Deadly force is not excessive.

Also counts when a family member is in the trouble described above.

Home defense:
1. Deadly force can be used to prevent someone from breaking in if the circumstances would lead a reasonable person to believe that the intruder was going to commit a felony, kill, or greatly harm someone inside.

2. Can't use deadly force when someone is trespassing outside your home on your property, or if there's no imminent threat of death, bodily harm, or sexual assault after they break into your home.

3. Don't point a gun at someone in an instance where deadly force would not be allowed.



Generally, if you can keep from having to shoot or kill someone, don't. It's a last resort.





If someone breaks into my house, I'm upstairs, and my wife and kids are upstairs. I'm not going downstairs to go outside. I would get armed, get everyone to one room, and stay there until the cops showed up.

12/29/2010 1:33:57 PM

they don't have a right to your stuff. They don't have a right to your property.

You can shoot if they are actively breaking in, or they start coming for you. You cannot shoot if they are trying to retreat (run away) or if they stop and raise their hands in a surrendering action. For you to use deadly force, you have to be in fear of deadly force being used upon you.

12/29/2010 1:34:59 PM

Quote :

"I would like to hear someone talk seriously and with authority about the legality of just shooting a burglar"

My best friend's brother is a Guilford County Sheriff. He told me to shoot first and ask questions later. If you are in my house in the middle of the night and I don't know who you are, then you are a threat in my opinion. I would just make sure you kill him so he can't tell his side of the story in court.

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 1:39 PM. Reason : a]

12/29/2010 1:38:37 PM

Once they are in your house you can only shoot them if you feel they pose a threat to you or your family

12/29/2010 1:43:11 PM

And being in my house in the middle of the night uninvited constitutes a threat to my family imo

12/29/2010 1:55:54 PM

And if they're dead they can't say they weren't charging at you screaming "i'm going to have non consensual sex with your butthole"

12/29/2010 1:59:43 PM

Just don't shoot them in the back and you should be fine

12/29/2010 2:01:14 PM

Or while they're on the ground.

12/29/2010 2:03:05 PM

Running araounds naked isn't gonna insure you anything but a hole in your head by a REAL break in.

Grab a gun/9 iron/bat and do work.

12/29/2010 2:06:45 PM

Quote :

"§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. (a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence. (b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section. (c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)"

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_14.html

ncgs is your friend

12/29/2010 2:17:36 PM

Quote :

"(ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence."

Nice. So you don't even have to feel physically threatened.

Breaking and Entering is a felony, so if they are already in your house then they have already committed a felony. BLAST AWAY!

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 2:21 PM. Reason : a]

12/29/2010 2:19:26 PM

you better feel pretty threatened- there are plenty of anti-gun lawyers out there that would demonize you. Especially if you did it with an AR, AK, or semiautomatic pistol with any attachments on it. It really would become a big legal mess, so you'd probably want to make sure it was warranted in that case. As for myself, I'd probably be upstairs if it happened, in which case, I'd close and lock my door, call the cops and have my shotgun ready to blast anyone who came walking through that door that didn't have a badge

12/29/2010 2:25:36 PM

Burglars don't make very sympathetic plaintiffs in a civil suit. PS - most pistols are semiautomatic.

12/29/2010 2:28:22 PM

^"with attachments" - the guy is a gun dude, btw.





Situations like this are the reason the lord hath given us 9-shot capacity shotguns

12/29/2010 2:30:32 PM

meh- about 50% of the people I know who have 1 single gun for home protection have a revolver. And note, I said a semi with attachments (ie: lights and laser sights). Lawyers will try to say you had the gun specifically to shoot and kill someone (which is really what it is for, but their wording makes it seem aggressive rather than defensive). I don't agree with it at all, but I have a "tacticool" 12 gauge that I plan on replacing with a stock 20 gauge semiauto shotgun just for this very scenario

12/29/2010 2:31:43 PM

i'm going to put a tac light on macho with a laser pointer attached, i will shake the shit out of him and throw him at all intruders, that should do the trick

12/29/2010 2:39:17 PM

bahaha - that would probably scare me outta there

12/29/2010 2:40:27 PM

It probably has already been covered (I admit, I have skimmed), but I thought NC was a "shoot to kill" state and that you have to tell them to leave first....

Quote :

"Ghost."

Dude, I wish. Seriously, I want to see a ghost at some point

12/29/2010 4:00:45 PM

^how can you miss the general statute listing above ?

12/29/2010 4:28:01 PM

Because I only skimmed a little then hit ctrl+end to get to the bottom of the page and hit reply

12/29/2010 4:29:10 PM

do you get any felony charge if you shoot to kill intruders?

what if they are not armed?

12/29/2010 4:33:19 PM

the thing about running around acting stupid/crazy is that most people dont give a shit about life

you may fool some two bit teenager or somethin into getting confused and running off but people that are strung out, people that are career criminals whether theyve actually committed murder or not, people that are in your house because theyve given up on life and have no other avenue will shoot you before you finish a sentence or an action

they really dont consider life or the consequences of killing you, hell id go so far as to say that they do consider it and would rather walk out of your housw with your PS3 and the smell of your mouth on their dick than spare your life

its a cold world you flee or you get colder

its why i dont even fuck with nobody no more, id rather no one know anything about me

you wonder why most of these motherfuckers get caught for a murder after they were reported braggin about it to their friends or even random people, they do not care

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 4:38 PM. Reason : f]

12/29/2010 4:35:25 PM

^^

Quote :

"Quote : "§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. (a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence. (b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section. (c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)" http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_14.html ncgs is your friend "

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 4:36 PM. Reason : 7]

12/29/2010 4:35:51 PM

I read that statute and I'm still unsure as to what you can actually do and get away with... It doesn't mention you having to warn the intruder, but I think telling someone to leave then shooting them when they don't makes more sense than just shooting the intruder... I would think you would also be protected more (or at least have a better chance) in a lawsuit if the intruder tried to sue you.

12/29/2010 4:36:41 PM

you dont have to say anything if you're faced with the threat of death or serious bodily harm.

12/29/2010 4:39:02 PM

the basic interpretation of that law:

- you can use deadly force to stop unlawful entry into your home (i.e. in the act of illegally entering == coming/breaking through door/window), provided you believe there is a serious threat of being killed or seriously injured, or believe a felony will be committed.
- you can use deadly force on an intruder inside your home, provided you believe there is a serious threat of being killed or seriously injured, or believe a felony will be committed.
- you don't have to attempt to flee within your home before using deadly force (you have to outside of your home though)
- you CANNOT use deadly force on a simple trespass

And I'd rather not ask the intruder's permission to use deadly force, or give away the advantage of surprise. Lawsuit argument is worthless - either the intruder is dead or it's your word against his, thus meaningless.

[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 6:16 PM. Reason : .]

12/29/2010 6:15:23 PM

you have no duty to retreat or announce yourself as armed inside your home. You do have to follow those guidelines if you're out in public, but the intruder made himself aware of those potential ramifications when he broke into your house.

12/29/2010 6:56:08 PM

Quote :

"I heard about a guy who won a lawsuit after falling through someone's skylight."

Well duh. The homeowner should have put a fence on their roof around the skylight. What if it was the neighborhood kids who had been sneaking up their with a ladder? Totally irresponsible.

12/29/2010 7:07:13 PM

ITT I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

12/29/2010 7:37:51 PM

i think its my job to make home burglary one of the most deadly occupations, and persuade future burglars to pick another line of work

12/29/2010 8:02:35 PM

Quote :

"Every single female living alone should own a gun and know how to use it properly/safely."

I struggle with that. I don't have a weapon in the house nor do I intend on getting one because I'm more afraid of having it taken away and used against me then having it defend myself. Also, im not really comfortable with the idea of having a firearm in the house.

Quote :

"so was someone trying to break in your place, jen?"

no, nobody was trying to break in but I worry about it way more often then i probably should. If im home alone and the dog barks at night, which is pretty rare, ill usually stay up all night worrying about it. About a month ago I swear to god I thought someone was in my house though

12/29/2010 8:04:05 PM

You break into my house, you're going to end up being shot.

12/29/2010 8:04:37 PM

Quote :

"I don't have a weapon in the house"

I whole heartedly disagree. Here comes a rant...

People need to learn what a weapon is and what it isn't. A weapon, generally speaking, is any object which may, for a lack of better words, inflict harm. More specifically, nothing, including a firearm, is a weapon until used in such a fashion. A pen, a baseball bat, or even your own fists... you don't go around calling those things weapons (except for you gym nerds) until they are used as such. The same goes for a firearm. It is merely an object, a tool, when not used as a weapon.

12/29/2010 8:21:52 PM

Quote :

"I don't have a weapon in the house nor do I intend on getting one because I'm more afraid of having it taken away and used against me then having it defend myself."

I'd say that most of the people that would break into your house and do you grave harm would be the kind of criminal that brought their own weapon.

12/29/2010 8:37:49 PM

if you scare me while I am at home in the wee hours of the morning.....good luck to you.

otherwise I'll let Val do the talking.

12/29/2010 8:43:17 PM

Quote :

" I struggle with that. I don't have a weapon in the house nor do I intend on getting one because I'm more afraid of having it taken away and used against me then having it defend myself. Also, im not really comfortable with the idea of having a firearm in the house. "

1st if you have a gun you should be prepared to use it and comfortable with it.

2nd if they get close enough to take it from you, it should be empty by that point.

12/29/2010 9:31:02 PM

Quote :

"I got a pretty good tip from a state trooper. He said to unload a full clip into a guy instead of just a few shots. If you only shoot him a couple of times it looks like you were calm and knew what you were doing. If you just bust out a whole clip it looks like you were scared for your life - which makes all the difference to a jury."

Fucking shit advice. If you make the decision to shoot someone, you do it until they stop threatening you, however many shots that takes or doesn't take. No other thought process should be taking place from a tactical or a legal standpoint.

Quote :

"1st if you have a gun you should be prepared to use it and comfortable with it."

Agreed. If you're not, don't own one.

Quote :

"2nd if they get close enough to take it from you, it should be empty by that point."

Theoretically, yes. This isn't always born out in practice. A determined adversary can cover the distance in most houses before you'd have the chance to expend all the rounds in a typical double-stack magazine.


Also, what wdprice3 said about weapons + infinity.

12/29/2010 10:34:02 PM

Look my alarm clock, if used correctly could be a weapon but thats not the reason I have one sitting on my nightstand. A firearm on the other hand would be in my nightstand for the sole purpose of inflicting harm should I find myself in imminent danger. I get it that some folks use a firearm as a tool and thats fine but you want me to call a shotgun a tool? That seems foolish.


For example, If i took the paring knife out of the kitchen and put it under my mattress for safety then to me that object is no longer a tool, its a weapon.

Quote :

""2nd if they get close enough to take it from you, it should be empty by that point.""

The thing I worry about is someone being in the house and in close proximity to me before i notice someone is there. Like that creeky top step at the top of the staircase, if I was asleep and I woke up to someone at the top of the stairs its entirely plausible that in the time I took to reach over and pull a gun out of my drawer, I may be able to fire off a few shoots, but would likely end up in a wrestling match. Someone kicking in my front door seems far less scary because you would have more time.



[Edited on December 29, 2010 at 11:16 PM. Reason : cray cray ]

12/29/2010 11:01:54 PM