Quote :

"I've got to disagree. There is always room for fine craftsmanship whether it be in woodworking, metalworking, jewelry, watches, or other arts. Some will appreciate it; others will not. Being a "tool" doesn't make it any less relevant. Do you know how difficult it is to make a folded steel piece like this?"

that doesn't look hard to make to me. it might be, but i don't know anything about it. don't care to. that's just a personal preference... as i stated above.

Quote :

"Uh, this shows your ignorance pretty clearly. There is a VAST difference between shitty knives and custom knives. Photos cannot convey the difference because there are massive mechanical and functional differences. Steels, geometry, etc. Car is a car is a car. They all drive. A house is a house is a house. They all have rooms. A computer is a computer is a computer. They all compute. Are you seeing the flaw here? There are major differences between various types of cars, houses, computers and knives. This "logic" is terrible son."

yes, i am ignorant about knives and their craftsmanship. i never claimed to be anything else. like i said, i don't care.

if you want to collect knives that's cool. i just don't know (or care to know) anything about them and there are other things i personally would rather collect.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 1:57 PM. Reason : paging]

12/30/2010 1:56:42 PM

Quote :

"Until you actually sell the knives, you can't say that they're really worth anything. And if you plan on holding onto the knives for a long time, you will need to adjust for inflation."

Unless you actually sell your house, you can't say that it's really worth anything. And if you plan on holding onto the house for a long time, you will need to adjust for inflation.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:10 PM. Reason : Sell]

12/30/2010 2:10:04 PM

Quote :

"there are other things i personally would rather collect."

care to post some examples so we can all talk about how stupid they are?

12/30/2010 2:10:47 PM

nah, i don't care what you think.

and ftr, i never said saab was stupid for collecting knives. i only said i was not impressed by knives.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:12 PM. Reason : k]

12/30/2010 2:11:14 PM

Apparently stamps, of all things, are more interesting and far cooler than handmade knives. Maybe he collects those, since he's cool and stuff.

12/30/2010 2:12:29 PM

i don't collect stamps. i think they are cool from a history perspective though.

if you posted more info on your knives, i'd read it. why they are cool/valuable... how they are made...


[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:16 PM. Reason : pictures don't do it for me.]

12/30/2010 2:13:18 PM

Hey guys, I was unaware of this thing called inflation.

Quote :

"if you posted more info on your knives, i'd read it. why they are cool/valuable... how they are made..."

If I do that then people write "tl/dr". You can't please everyone.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:19 PM. Reason : can't]

12/30/2010 2:19:13 PM

I will be the 1st to admit that I find SaabTurbo annoying, only because he posts pics of knives (and himself) in so many threads, however, I will also be the first to defend handmade craftsmanship. I have a deep appreciation for people who make things with their hands which take months, and sometimes years to make, even if I am not into the particular item.

I am not into knives at all, but I can appreciate the makers.

Quote :

"I've got to disagree. There is always room for fine craftsmanship whether it be in woodworking, metalworking, jewelry, watches, or other arts. Some will appreciate it; others will not. Being a "tool" doesn't make it any less relevant."

So true.

If were rich (I mean really rich), I wouldn't be buying mansions all over the world like most rich people do, I would be collecting handmade items and/or antiques such as knives, watches, classic cars, wooden furniture, etc.

Not as in investment primarily, but because I like such things and would love to collect them. Of course, such things don't lose value, and in fact, gain value, and can be considered investments as well.

12/30/2010 2:19:39 PM

Haha, here's a Mike Snody piece for sale. You guys remember him, right?

https://steeladdictionknives.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=122&products_id=5789&osCsid=bhqwxwbtizxz


The dude makes sick knives, but he's a bit of an oddball in the knife world due to his, uh..... "lifestyle"....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P26yxOFcgrQ

"I'm having to use a translator to conduct business. All I understand is ghetto gear and money... ghetto gear... money..."

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:25 PM. Reason : Hah!]

12/30/2010 2:24:00 PM

is the detail on that first one done by hand?

12/30/2010 2:25:53 PM

Quote :

"Unless you actually sell your house, you can't say that it's really worth anything. And if you plan on holding onto the house for a long time, you will need to adjust for inflation."

Yeah... I agree. So we both agree, your knives aren't worth anything monetary to you.

Quote :

"Uh, this shows your ignorance pretty clearly. There is a VAST difference between shitty knives and custom knives. Photos cannot convey the difference because there are massive mechanical and functional differences. Steels, geometry, etc. Car is a car is a car. They all drive. A house is a house is a house. They all have rooms. A computer is a computer is a computer. They all compute. Are you seeing the flaw here? There are major differences between various types of cars, houses, computers and knives. This "logic" is terrible son."

So, tell us the difference in knives. I'm sure some of the different steels allows for harder things to be cut.

But from what i can tell, my kitchen knife will kill someone just as effectively as any of those knives.

12/30/2010 2:26:49 PM

^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

12/30/2010 2:28:08 PM

Quote :

"But from what i can tell, my kitchen knife will kill someone just as effectively as any of those knives."

There's your first problem! You're assuming all knives are designed for killing, despite owning a knife that was clearly designed for food prep. Handle ergonomics, balance, blade thickness, blade profile, grind type (Hollow, full flat, saber, convex, chisel, scandi, multi) and edge type (v, chisel, zero chisel, convex, scandi) all play major roles in how the knife will perform and what tasks it will perform well. The steel plays a major role as well and must be carefully selected according to the other parameters and intended goal. All of these variables can be changed to an insane degree for different types of tasks.

Your kitchen knife wouldn't do shit in the outdoors, you'd break it in no time, and it wouldn't be a good everyday carry piece either. The weighting on it will not allow for chopping and you certainly can't baton with it. The handle and blade shape do not allow for fine detail work with wood. It is a knife specifically designed for food prep. Yes, it will slice meat because it's designed for that, but it won't just stab through thick clothing easily, you may simply snap off the tip. It also wont deal well with bone. Can it be used in a pinch? Yeah. Is it ideal or in any way designed for use as a defensive knife? Absolutely not. You can kill someone with a fucking lamp dude, but that doesn't mean it's ideal for the task and that it's something you can easily carry around with you all the time, lol.

It also wouldn't work in a "tactical" setting (No, I don't like the word but it's reasonable enough in this case) where prying may need to be done with the knife. Note that prying is never recommended, but certain jobs require you to carry all of your tools with you and one tool which can perform many tasks is always a good thing.

You know nothing about knives dude, just let it go, it's ok man.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:37 PM. Reason : T]

12/30/2010 2:33:49 PM

^^ahhh. cool. thanks for the link. so metal is pattern welded to get that look. i hadn't even heard of that stuff before.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:35 PM. Reason : k]

12/30/2010 2:35:21 PM

^Which is why this knife is so sick...




Also note that those handles are hand "carved" and anodized titanium. That was not done by CNC machining.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:39 PM. Reason : T]

12/30/2010 2:38:13 PM

You aint runnin shit son.

12/30/2010 2:38:21 PM

^^^ Welded, forged & pounded to become one piece, folded, pounded, shaped, folded, pounded, shaped, etc.

It's really a lot easier with industrial age tools for pounding the layers together and folding the steel. Handmade 17th century katanas could take 6 months to a year to produce and would cost several years of a normal person's income to purchase. They were doing it by hand with sledgehammers though.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM. Reason : s]

12/30/2010 2:38:43 PM

I liken this to Samurai sword making. OK, maybe it is not as labor-intensive, but the attention to detail and expertise is there.

Imagine a Samurai sword... are y'all going to dismiss it and say you can buy a sword a 1/10th the price which looks almost the same and can also kill someone?

Some of the Samurai swords have as many as a million layers (folded over on itself 20 times), but usually 65,536 layers (16 foldings), which we see as the grain in the blade.

Only a few people in the world can make such a thing.



[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ^ beat me to it, but i gave some numbers!]

12/30/2010 2:40:33 PM

You can still find people hand forging knives the old school way, but they're somewhat rare these days.

12/30/2010 2:40:56 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokume-gane

Similar technique that you'll notice in custom jewelry now that it's been brought to your attention.

12/30/2010 2:43:04 PM

i'm more impressed now that i know just a little of what goes in to making one of these things... i can appreciate the craftsmanship.

i still wouldn't collect them, but i can understand why someone would.

12/30/2010 2:43:08 PM

Yeah, I don't think I've ever spent more than $70 or so on a knife. I have flipped quite a few that I bought pretty cheap for more than that though.

12/30/2010 2:46:08 PM

12/30/2010 2:46:56 PM

^^ The Gerry McGinnis Mini-V flipper is insane btw. The action on that knife is one of the best actions I've ever experienced.

IKBS flippers are also pretty fucking amazing. You should definitely try to handle some high end customs if you haven't before. It will take some experience with knives to actually appreciate the differences obviously, but I'd imagine you've handled enough production knives by now to notice the improvement.


A non-knife person simply wont realize that they're holding a $700 knife obviously. They wont know what they're looking at. It takes a long time to develop an eye and a feel for all of the detail that goes into handmade knives, which is why I never suggest people start out with high end knives. You should always work your way up from the bottom if you want to develop a full appreciation for knives.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:51 PM. Reason : NM]

12/30/2010 2:49:32 PM

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:51 PM. Reason : .]

12/30/2010 2:51:00 PM

I realized upon looking at the link that you just put up an image of the company logo rather than a link from their site son. Maybe you should shove a chinese made knife up your ass. I think it would improve your looks.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 2:52 PM. Reason : T]

12/30/2010 2:52:06 PM

you're amusing

12/30/2010 2:56:44 PM

Quote :

"Your kitchen knife wouldn't do shit in the outdoors"

I don't need to do shit outdoors.

Quote :

"and it wouldn't be a good everyday carry piece either"

I have no desire to cary knives with me.

Quote :

"The weighting on it will not allow for chopping and you certainly can't baton with it."

Why would I want to do any of that with a knife?

Quote :

"The handle and blade shape do not allow for fine detail work with wood."

I would rather use a lathe/saw, ect for doing detail with wood.

Quote :

"but it won't just stab through thick clothing easily, you may simply snap off the tip."

I will go for the neck.

Quote :

"It also wont deal well with bone."

I don't eat people.

Quote :

"Is it ideal or in any way designed for use as a defensive knife?"

A gun is better for defense over a knife.

Quote :

"You can kill someone with a fucking lamp dude, but that doesn't mean it's ideal for the task and that it's something you can easily carry around with you all the time, lol."

Why would I want to cary a knife with me all the time?

Quote :

"where prying may need to be done with the knife."

I prefer screw drivers.

Quote :

"You know nothing about knives dude, just let it go, it's ok man."

I know enough to not blow my money on stupid shit with the hope that it might go up in value.

12/30/2010 3:59:41 PM

You quoted and responded to everything completely out of context like a moron. You're not worth any more of my time.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 4:14 PM. Reason : Son]

12/30/2010 4:10:59 PM

merbig is a troll

12/30/2010 4:18:49 PM

O RLY?

It's sad when someone is that insecure with my elevated position in society. Putting that much effort into acting like a child is pretty pathetic.

12/30/2010 4:20:36 PM

I didn't take anything out of context. You made an argument that a kitchen knife is not capable of doing those things as efficiently as a knife made for that task. While you may have a point about the outdoor shit, you're a knife collector, obviously. So how many of the knives that you posted in this thread will you actually use? But then you made inane arguments like a kitchen knife doesn't make a good cary piece. Who fucking cares? Cary a utility knife around with you like everyone else does if you want a cary piece. If you want to use it for defensive purposes, the old argument of "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" comes to mind. Yeah, sure, a custom made knife for a specific application might be ideal, but even then, there are better tools for the job.

You even argued against yourself when you said that a kitchen knife would suck for prying, but then you go on to say that using a knife for prying isn't recommended. And you do know that there are kitchen knives that can cut bone?

Going around buying expensive knives is fucking stupid.

12/30/2010 4:21:04 PM

Your long childish rant demonstrates a willful disregard for the actual points made in my original post.

12/30/2010 4:36:56 PM

And yet, you're copping out on my points against what you said. Your points didn't even dispute my assertion that my kitchen knife will kill someone just as effectively as your 500 dollar show knife. You just said it wasn't ideal, which I agree with.

12/30/2010 4:40:18 PM

Quote :

"Your points didn't even dispute my assertion that my kitchen knife will kill someone just as effectively as your 500 dollar show knife. You just said it wasn't ideal, which I agree with."

12/30/2010 4:42:31 PM

Quote :

"Your points didn't even dispute my assertion that my kitchen knife will kill someone just as effectively as your 500 dollar show knife. You just said it wasn't ideal, which I agree with."

Contradiction.

If yours isn't ideal for the job and his is, then yours isn't as effective.

Quote :

"Going around buying expensive knives anything is fucking stupid."

Do let us know when you place an order for the Tata Nano, wear a $10 watch, wear $5 shirts and trousers, etc.

12/30/2010 4:45:27 PM

^ Thank you.

When we place judgments on others' value systems we become hypocrites.

12/30/2010 4:47:49 PM

Quote :

"If yours isn't ideal for the job and his is, then yours isn't as effective."

Since when is something not effective if it means it isn't ideal? I'm pretty sure I can take a kitchen knife and kill someone with an effectiveness of 100% (I don't think you can't get an effectiveness of 50% on killing someone). Now, it may be easier to use a knife made for killing someone, like a dagger. The end result of slitting someone's throat with a kitchen knife or some knife made for slitting throats is the same, is it not? Basically, your logic is incorrect.

You think:

isn't ideal = isn't effective, because ideal=effective.

But effective=isn't ideal or ideal.

Quote :

"Do let us know when you place an order for the Tata Nano, wear a $10 watch, wear $5 shirts and trousers, etc."

Generalizing my sentence doesn't validate your stance. Spending 100 dollars on a watch because it will last 4 times as long as a 50 dollar watch makes financial sense. The same can be said about jeans/shirts. But overall, I don't go around buying expensive shit unless I can justify the additional expense over a cheaper alternative.

Quote :

"When we place judgments on others' value systems we become hypocrites."

This simply isn't correct. It is not hypocritical to judge someone else's value system as being flawed. If someone 10 or so years ago went out and bought 1000 beanie babies at 20 dollars a piece (at least) with this hope that they would go up in value, but they find out that they never did increase in value, then telling them that monetary wise, their value system is wrong. If there is some sentimental attachment to the items, that's different. I'm not judging your appreciation for the craftsmanship, or that you simply like the knives. But to characterize them as a financial investment on your part seems flawed. Leave the BS out of this and just say you like the fucking knives because you think they look cool/value them on a sentimental or personal level.

You're asserting monetary value to something that isn't money. There's nothing hypocritical in judging someone's assertion about an item's worth.

12/30/2010 5:03:12 PM

Quote :

"The end result of slitting someone's throat with a kitchen knife or some knife made for slitting throats is the same, is it not?"

Effective has more to do with end result. OK, maybe the word I am looking for is 'efficient'.

Yours isn't as efficient.

12/30/2010 5:13:30 PM

Irrelevant. I never said that it efficient.

12/30/2010 5:14:57 PM

Quote :

"cary knives"

Much better than Raleigh ones.

12/30/2010 5:25:42 PM

you people are a bunch of weirdos

12/30/2010 5:26:10 PM

SaabTurbo,

Are you sexually attracted to knives?

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM. Reason : To me the pictures in the first post seemed sexual to me.]

12/30/2010 5:42:13 PM

Quote :

"This simply isn't correct. It is not hypocritical to judge someone else's value system as being flawed. If someone 10 or so years ago went out and bought 1000 beanie babies at 20 dollars a piece (at least) with this hope that they would go up in value, but they find out that they never did increase in value, then telling them that monetary wise, their value system is wrong. If there is some sentimental attachment to the items, that's different. I'm not judging your appreciation for the craftsmanship, or that you simply like the knives. But to characterize them as a financial investment on your part seems flawed. Leave the BS out of this and just say you like the fucking knives because you think they look cool/value them on a sentimental or personal level. You're asserting monetary value to something that isn't money. There's nothing hypocritical in judging someone's assertion about an item's worth."

You've twisted everything I've said into stuff which is nothing like what I actually said. For example, I never stated that I buy knives solely for the purpose of investment. I stated that these particular knives will only go up in value and that was only because someone said they were a waste of money. I simply pointed out that they are hardly a waste. You're not involved in the custom knife community, you know nothing about knives and you have no ability to appraise the value of these items. Comparing custom knives to beanie babies is exactly what demonstrates you have no clue what you're talking about. If the names McGinnis and Anso don't ring a bell, then you are not in a position to be talking about the resale value of their custom knives. I didn't buy these "in the hope" that they'd gain value. They already have gained value. Not to mention the part where I will never be selling them. I could easily sell all of these tomorrow for more than what I paid. They are priceless to me though, I have no interest in selling them. These are very difficult knives to obtain dude, sorry you weren't aware of that. Custom knives are not a fad that just started yesterday. If I ever HAD to sell them though, I could easily get my money back out of them in a hurry. That is one thing about custom knives, they can be quickly turned around. For someone who knows nothing about knives, it's amazing that you're actually trying to school me on the resale value of my own customs. And yes, if the economy crashes they'll be less valuable, but EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE TOO, and at least they're usable tools that are extremely well made.

This straw man shit is REALLY sad btw dude. Learn to read within the context of what is going on and then maybe we can have a conversation.

I will not be responding to anything else you write in here, you've proven time and time again to be incapable of reading things clearly. Your interests are hostile at best and hopefully you'll die soon.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM. Reason : T]

12/30/2010 5:59:53 PM

Quote :

"For example, I never stated that I buy knives solely for the purpose of investment."

I never said that you buy knives solely for the purpose of investment. I said that you do buy knives for the purpose of investment, something you just admitted to.

Quote :

"I stated that these particular knives will only go up in value and that was only because someone said they were a waste of money. I simply pointed out that they are hardly a waste."

And I pointed out that you have no way of backing up your belief on the value of your knives without actually selling them. Maybe the knife market isn't volatile right now. But there's many people who go out and collect things with the prospect of selling them in the future, only to grow a sentimental attachment to the items or they decrease in worth the point of not being worth the hassle of selling them.

If you actually consider these to be an investment, do you have a timeframe on when you'll turn around and sell them? Am I correct in assuming that the knife market is a niche market (I'm talking about quality, collectors, knives)? If so, then there's a relatively small pool of buyers, and the value of your collector knives hinge on the demand and supply of them. Assuming that the demand stays relatively high, won't the manufacturer continue to make the knives? Maybe each one is unique from some makers, but as more knives are created of a "series" or "model," the worth will decrease as supply increases. So with some of these knives where they're fetching 4 or 5 times what you paid for them, why not sell them now when it is likely that they will be at their peak value? I brought up inflation because people have the tendency to hold onto shit for 30 or so years, only to sell the thing, which by that point, inflation definitely play a role in determining whether you actually made money or not.

Quote :

"You're not involved in the custom knife community, you know nothing about knives and you have no ability to appraise the value of these items."

Basic economics isn't exclusive to any community, including the custom knife community. I don't know what some expert will appraise the monetary value of your item at. That's irrelevant. Just because someone says x is "worth" y, doesn't mean you will get y for it. Look at the housing market. My parents had a house up for like $410,000 initially, based on what a realtor said was a fair market value. Well, the masses didn't agree, and over the course of a year or so, they dropped it by close to 100k.

An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Quote :

"you've proven time and time again to be incapable of reading things clearly."

Uh, no. You're just unable to justify the worth of your knives, instead saying crap like, "you know nothing about knives or the custom knife community." That doesn't somehow dispute what I said. It's nothing more than an ad hominem argument. You're also pissed that I called you the fuck out for going to extreme examples to somehow prove a point that a kitchen knife is best in the kitchen and that it is not the ideal tool in other circumstances. You completely missed my point.

You said that there are different knives for different tasks, just as cars, homes, ect differ. The difference being with cars is that each one has different capabilities. Homes have different capabilities as well. Knives, on the one hand, all cut. Yeah, so some knives are tailored specifically for different tasks. I wasn't challenging you to discredit the efficiency of a kitchen knife outside of its designed purpose. I was challenging you to list traits, designs, ect that differentiate each other from one another.

It's like you completely ignored this:

Quote :

"So, tell us the difference in knives. I'm sure some of the different steels allows for harder things to be cut."

Quote :

"For someone who knows nothing about knives, it's amazing that you're actually trying to school me on the resale value of my own customs. "

No, I'm schooling you on what it means to actually be "worth" something. Just because some dude on a message board tells you a knife is worth 5,000 dollars, doesn't mean it actually is. You keep saying that these knives have gained value, but really, how do you know? Feel free to believe anything you want, but without proof, you're just talking out of your ass.

[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

12/30/2010 6:31:36 PM

So, anyway, the next knives I have coming in are going to be quite interesting. One is a straight up user built by Kyley Harris. He's making me a cKc 1.0 in CPM-S35VN. Only 4 of the 1.0's will be made in S35VN and it's unlikely that too many (If any) more will be made in that steel. He has access to Uddeholm D2 and O1 in his country and had to order the S35VN from the USA, which cost him a lot of money for the price point he wants to aim for, especially after shipping.

I also have a knife coming from the dude who made my zero chisel ground tanto fixed blade. That knife is also under development, details can't be disclosed at this time.


The cKc 1.0 is the smallest knife in these photos, although these are all in Uddeholm Sleipner Steel (American D2 equivalent, but slightly better).













[Edited on December 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM. Reason : T]

12/30/2010 6:48:41 PM

Where is the best place online to purchase the tools to make knives stupid sharp?

12/30/2010 6:49:44 PM

Spyderco sharpening stones work well with proper technique. You'll want fine and medium. A leather strop with green polishing compound is also extremely useful, again technique helps.

I suggest getting those two items initially, just search around for good prices man. They will keep you occupied for some time honestly and will give you insane edges. There is a lot of info out there on sharpening if you find you want to take it further from there.

12/30/2010 6:53:13 PM