Obviously Palin did not directly tell people to go shoot their congressmen. Nobody here is saying that.

but the whole pointing to Palin is that she is representative of a certain political tactic that is becoming disturbingly more and more commonplace. she is one of the most vocal and visible proponents of the proclivity to engage in heated rhetoric demonizing those to the left of her as anti-american enemies bent on destroying the country, using verbal imagery invoking revolution, armed resistance, and battle.

she's not the first, wont be the last, and certainly is not the only one to do this ... but she has become symbolic of this tactic because it's such a part of her overall image and the fact that she has captured the attention of the media and the voting public.

and the fact is, it's by and large the extremists on the right wing -- anti-government, libertarian zealot types -- who go around putting target marks on individuals, shooting people and blowing up federal buildings. whereas the leftist extremists tend to target economic assets of corporate/industrial concerns whom they perceive as violating human (or, in some cases, animal) rights.

1/8/2011 5:39:39 PM

Ok can we change the thread title to "9 year old girl and others shot."

What direction does this thread go in?

I've got a guess... "see this is why we should ban guns."

1/8/2011 5:43:10 PM

Liberal chain themselves to trees as opposed to shooting the people driving the bulldozers. Just sayin.

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:43 PM. Reason : ^ what?]

1/8/2011 5:43:18 PM

Quote :

"Liberals have been hoping for this for awhile."

Liberals haven't been hoping. They've been expecting this to happen. It's not just the target ads. It's the "Don't retreat, RELOAD" and the "By the ballot or the bullet" and multiple other signs/motto's, images, etc. The message has been subtle and consistent for quite some time, now.

1/8/2011 5:45:36 PM

Quote :

"The message has been subtle and consistent for quite some time, now."

FTFY

1/8/2011 5:46:53 PM

^^ and ^^^^^ are on the money

1/8/2011 5:47:19 PM

And there is no such tactic on the left joe? come on

so right winger extremists shoot the most people? quite a statement, not sure the facts would back that up.

This just cant be a deranged person?

Nope it always has to be spun into some political gain to make libs feel better about their side it seems.

Honestly, a sign with targets on it for districts the republicans wanted to target.... Im sure there is a couple people at the huff who just sit on shit like this to run if you can draw ANY link or irony to spin the kids into a fit.

1/8/2011 5:47:34 PM

what is the equivalent on the left?

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:50 PM. Reason : equivalent to the vitriolic rhetoric tactics]

1/8/2011 5:49:41 PM

Quote :

""Don't retreat, RELOAD" and the "By the ballot or the bullet""

And these same people have shot someone?

Oh no, 2 fucking posters and now a white kid shoots someone.. they have to be linked.

Do you hear yourselves?

1/8/2011 5:50:02 PM

Quote :

"anti-government, libertarian zealot types "

Please try to be a bit more accurate, if not more sensitive.
Libertarians are not anarchists. I mean, sure, some anarchists hide behind libertarianism....
We are only anti-what government shouldn't be doing. Not anti-government.
Even liberals are that way to some degree. (depending on what the current government is....)

Quote :

"And there is no such tactic on the left joe? come on"

This.


[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:52 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2011 5:50:07 PM

http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html

for you rbrthwrd


Granted these too could be teabaggers.

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2011 5:52:04 PM

Quote :

"And these same people have shot someone? Oh no, 2 fucking posters and now a white kid shoots someone.. they have to be linked. Do you hear yourselves? "

the point is that not everyone who uses this kind of rhetoric will become violent, the point is that if you keep this kind of rhetoric going long enough someone will become an extremist and will become violent

1/8/2011 5:52:04 PM

Quote :

"And there is no such tactic on the left joe? come on"

no, you come on.

you tell me ONE recent event where some left-winger shot up exploded or otherwise killed or tried to kill their political adversaries in this country....

... and i'll tell you TEN where a rightwinger did the same.




[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2011 5:52:48 PM

i don't think the modern left has had the kind of systematic hate mongering and violent language to rally up support that was prevalent among the right in recent elections. i'm not talking about crazies with signs at rallies, i'm talking about the people leading the rallies.

1/8/2011 5:54:57 PM

which side the incendiary language is coming from is irrelevant. the only thing that matters is that they're being irresponsible. they're being intentionally careless with their rhetoric. and the rhetoric has been sooo orchestrated, so consistent, and so unanimous that people are beginning to see how this type of language can have severe consequences.

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 5:58 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2011 5:56:14 PM

To be completely fair, I tried to assassinate President Bush back in 2005 but I didn't succeed.

1/8/2011 5:57:38 PM

^dammit, now joe will have to give us 10 examples.

1/8/2011 5:58:25 PM

Quote :

"which side the incendiary language is coming from is irrelevant. the only thing that matters is that they're being irresponsible. they're being intentionally careless with their rhetoric. and the rhetoric has been sooo orchestrated, so consistent, and so unanimous that people are beginning to see how this type of language can have severe consequences."

1/8/2011 5:59:21 PM

according to his youtube video some of his favorite books are: brave new world, F451, The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf

I do hope this is the shinning example you guys are hoping for, but it could be he is just a wacko who didnt like the fact that she was a fairly conservative dem. I would hate for that to blow up in everyones face... ala the times square bomber.

1/8/2011 6:04:13 PM

^x4, probably not a smart idea to post that phrase.


and the dude is batshit crazy.

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 6:06 PM. Reason : cray-cray]

1/8/2011 6:05:55 PM

Meh.

1/8/2011 6:06:50 PM

Quote :

"Liberals have been hoping for this for awhile."

Conservatives have been SAYING this for a while.

1/8/2011 6:13:36 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36033690#36033690

Quote :

"Gifford: We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but, the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted, has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize there's consequences to that action."

plz embed

1/8/2011 6:25:53 PM

Quote :

"according to his youtube video some of his favorite books are"

Which video?

1/8/2011 6:28:33 PM

Msnbc also said this lady was dead...

1/8/2011 6:30:25 PM

when the facts come out, we're going to find that this guy (Jared Loughner) is truly batshit crazy.

i'm going to venture a layman's diagnosis right now: Paranoid Schizophrenic.

this doesnt' change the fact that all this rhetoric from the right, against the left, is agitating unstable gun owners (ie, an appreciable fraction of the Fox News demographic) to get upset at these targets who are increasingly perceived to be the root cause and prime motivator of their induced stress.

People like Palin, Beck, Coulter, Limbaugh, et. al. on the right are careless and irresponsible at best. at worst, this is an intentional plan to keep hammering and hammering at the them until someone breaks. in either case, the GOP reactionaries spreading the rhetoric can't be legally blamed.

1/8/2011 6:39:55 PM

It's pretty clear that this would have never happened without the tea party movement.

There were never any insane whacko shootings until the tea party got started.

1/8/2011 6:44:19 PM

^ true statement

1/8/2011 6:50:33 PM

Quote :

"is agitating unstable gun owners (ie, an appreciable fraction of the Fox News demographic)"

source? i mean, give me a fuckin break with this hyperbole

1/8/2011 6:50:50 PM

Not all gun owners are unstable
Not all of the unstable own guns
However,
Some gun owners are unstable
Therefore,
Most of the unstable gun owners watch Fox News

QED

1/8/2011 6:56:11 PM

Quote :

" you tell me ONE recent event where some left-winger shot up exploded or otherwise killed or tried to kill their political adversaries in this country.... ... and i'll tell you TEN where a rightwinger did the same."

I want to know these TEN examples...

1/8/2011 6:59:34 PM

^^ not at all. You did NOT say that an appreciable fraction of unstable gun owners watch Fox News. You said an appreciable fraction of Fox News viewers are unstable gun owners. So I again ask, SOURCE?

and, even THAT "proof" is incorrect.

1/8/2011 7:03:27 PM

Per Euro's request:

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

1/8/2011 7:12:31 PM

so, now any rhetoric you don't agree with is "inflammatory?" Censorship, here we come! Now someone saying "we have to fight against this bill" is gonna be accused of inciting violence, lol

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 7:14 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2011 7:14:01 PM

you can't see the difference between "we have to fight against this bill" and "Don't retreat, RELOAD"?

also, no one I think is saying Palin and friends should be censored...

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 7:18 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2011 7:17:16 PM

Quote :

"so, now any rhetoric you don't agree with is "inflammatory?" "

How did you jump to that?

1/8/2011 7:17:53 PM

I think he's trolling. Or stupid.

1/8/2011 7:28:26 PM

Quote :

"you can't see the difference between "we have to fight against this bill" and "Don't retreat, RELOAD"? "

Not really. Unless either one is explicitly used in the context of the real physical violence they're alluding to, both are figures of speech.

1/8/2011 7:28:54 PM

How did I jump to that? Well, given that you haven't shown that any of this rhetoric is inflammatory, then it only stands to reason that you are calling the rhetoric with which you don't agree "inflammatory." pretty simple move, if you ask me.

1/8/2011 7:32:09 PM

if this was a stabbing, would you all be bitching about knife control?

1/8/2011 7:36:21 PM

^^Well for the record, I think Sarah Palin calling things death panels, and then Alan Grayson saying no the republicans are doing the real death panels, are both examples of inflammatory rhetoric, when congressmen have to be stopped before they kill your grandma! So that was an unfounded jump you made.

Your censorship comment was also another jump you made. Taking an opportunity to "reevaluate" what kind of language and atmosphere that is encouraged is a very far cry from saying "this language should not legally be allowed and should be censored."

terpball:

Quote :

"I think he's trolling."

I think you're right.

1/8/2011 7:41:31 PM

One could also say that maybe we should "re-evaluate" the policies that get people this stinkin mad about their elected officials. But, that would be erring a little too much on the side of supporting idiots like these

btw, I'm not entirely sure I'd call either of those two examples "inflammatory," but nice try.

1/8/2011 7:51:59 PM

Quote :

"if this was a stabbing, would you all be bitching about knife control?"

To be honest, 6 other people probably wouldn't have died if it was a stabbing.

1/8/2011 8:08:30 PM

Quote :

"if this was a stabbing, would you all be bitching about knife control? "

who knows, but seeing that no one is discussing gun control in this thread it would be a silly thing to wonder about

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 8:10 PM. Reason : so fuck your thread derail attempt]

1/8/2011 8:09:49 PM

wow this guy's a certified grade-A loonie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhAx8WzNJT0

and if it turns out he actually was a left-winger, that will be even more embarrassing than when I learned he was an atheist and therefore prolly not a Teabagger

1/8/2011 9:25:23 PM

Come on, both sides of the aisles have seen vandalism at campaign offices. This is just the media reaching to try and say that the right is hell bent on inciting violence if they don't get their way.

Who knows what this guy motivations were, and I think its a shame that both sides are trying to spin this for their parties gain.

1/8/2011 9:34:45 PM

Quote :

"Who knows what this guy motivations were, and I think its a shame that both sides are trying to spin this for their parties gain."

This. Admittedly, my first reaction when I heard about this story was to wonder about the political motivation behind it, but we're talking about people here, and whatever the reason or motivation, no one deserves something like this.

1/8/2011 9:49:15 PM

Sounds like the Sheriff is ready to put this blame on the right, despite reports the suspect has exercised his right to remain silent.

1/8/2011 9:59:02 PM

Those videos are fucking weird. Trying to pin a political leaning on this guy is pointless since there is obviously something wrong with his brain.

1/8/2011 10:04:58 PM

Interesting choice of reading...

Quote :

" Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno."

1/8/2011 10:07:00 PM