^^^Enlighten us.

Seriously, you've got some interesting and eclectic opinions...I'd like to know what you think about this issue or just big issues in education today.

1/19/2011 12:02:56 PM

1/19/2011 12:48:32 PM

Quote :

""

wait, there's a difference between "african american" and "negro" ? O_o

1/19/2011 12:55:44 PM

So what about the lady that lived across the street from me that had 3 school aged children? Her kids were bused. The bus would blow the horn for 2-3 minutes every morning but the kids would never come out. I'd say they went to school 2-3 days a week. How do we fix that problem?

Guess I'm just saying that I believe that poor performance isn't because you go to school with a bunch of kids that share the same economic struggles as you. The problem lies at home.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 1:07:21 PM

^^ I think that's because there are still old folk that identify themselves as Negro.

1/19/2011 1:17:38 PM

Quote :

"So what about the lady that lived across the street from me that had 3 school aged children? Her kids were bused. The bus would blow the horn for 2-3 minutes every morning but the kids would never come out. I'd say they went to school 2-3 days a week. How do we fix that problem?"

School attendance seems like a somewhat separate issue and I'm not in the field of education so my thoughts may be of limited value, but I'll give it a try.

I doubt if attendance issues would be addressed on that micro of a level. I imagine school attendance efforts might involve things like imparting on parents the value of an education, or addressing bullying if these kids aren't going because they are being harassed at school, or offering a morning day care service at school if parents in this region often have to leave for work before the bus arrives which results in the kids skipping so that now they can drop them off at school on the way to work.

There are just so many possibilities that it is hard to give an answer straight off. I'd say start with a focus group with a diversity of parents, a teacher, a bus driver, and a guidance counselor, or some mix like that. Have them come up with all the most likely causes for poor attendance in that particular school region. Then survey a random selection parents to find out which reasons are actually having the most impact, including the options that came up in the focus group, and an open ended option. Then when you have the results of the survey look at the most common causes of poor school attendance in your area.

If it turns out to be bullying, have a bullying seminar in the gym and train the guidance counselors and teachers to be on the look out, if it turns out to be parents schedules, then offer that morning day care service, if it turns out to be parents undervaluing education and thus not getting their kids to be ready in the mornings, send out a mailer saying on average kids with a diploma make money and stay out of crime.

You can't really answer the question until you know the problem. But you can examine the problem and come up with potential solutions in a data driven way.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 1:29:51 PM

Or just ignore it all and live your own life

1/19/2011 1:32:59 PM

I'm just saying that I can drive around my neighborhood(I live in a high poverty area) right now and count numerous school age kids outside playing. They are there because no one is pushing them to be there therefore resulting in their low performance.

I'm sure that both sides have valid points but taking it to a national level with one sides opinion leaves wake county with a black eye. That's what I'm ill about.

I am a builder and my wife is in real estate. If this continues do you think its going to persuade any family to move here?

1/19/2011 1:37:19 PM

I found out last night that Athens Drive High School has a daycare center for the children of students at the school

^ If you're seriously concerned, you could always call the police. Truancy is still a crime in NC.



[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:39 PM. Reason : f]

1/19/2011 1:37:48 PM

Because we live in a society where teenage pregnancy is encouraged

When I was in high school there was one girl that was pregnant...

I think everyone that lives here (no matter what your stance is on the issue) should be concerned.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:42 PM. Reason : Z]

1/19/2011 1:40:34 PM

Quote :

"Because we live in a society where teenage pregnancy is encouraged"

Pretty sure no one is out there advocating teenagers go and get knocked up. Also, teenage pregnancy rates are at an all-time low.

1/19/2011 1:41:54 PM

John Tedesco is a modern day carpetbagger

1/19/2011 1:43:36 PM

yeah there were several pregnant girls in my high school when I was there.

1/19/2011 1:43:46 PM

"teen mom" "sixteen and pregnant" government programs that make it "easy" to raise a kid.

^^^ what about abortion rates? Are they down as well? Do you think having an abortion at high school age has no effect on ones mental health?

Even if the numbers are down in both of these categories there are obviously still enough school aged CHILDREN having kids of their own to warrant child care in high schools.
[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:46 PM. Reason : A]

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 1:55 PM. Reason : Aa]

1/19/2011 1:44:18 PM

Quote :

"Because we live in a society where teenage pregnancy is encouraged"

As opposed to the pioneer days?

1/19/2011 1:56:25 PM

Quote :

"Guess I'm just saying that I believe that poor performance isn't because you go to school with a bunch of kids that share the same economic struggles as you. The problem lies at home."

Yes but we can mitigate that problem by busing them to another school (within reason, so not 2 hours away) that isn't full of the same types of kids. Maybe some good habits will rub off and the cycle will be broken.

1/19/2011 1:58:45 PM

Quote :

"John Tedesco is a modern day carpetbagger"

aha true.

1/19/2011 1:59:04 PM

Quote :

"They are there because no one is pushing them to be there therefore resulting in their low performance. "

I designed my previous response around the idea that we needed to find out diagnose what was causing the low attendance, but since you've positively identified exactly what the problem is, that was hard the part.

Now you just design solutions around that problem of a lack of push. Whether its mailers home to try to impart the value of an education on the parents more in terms of making their kids more employable, less likely to be involved in crime, and better more well rounded over all. You can modify the curriculum so that teachers spend more time pushing students directly on the value of coming to school in ways that appeal to them (fun activities, seeing friends, recess, and they might even learn something). You can bring up the value of pushing kids to go to school more at PTA meetings and in newsletters. You can incentivize attendance for the kids with winning field trips or other recognition. Or some combination of all these things. And of course you always look at similarly sized/financed school systems to benchmark against that have better attendance and try to ascertain what they are doing right.


I feel like you're jumping all over the place though.

The discussion started with balancing the benefits of neighborhood schools vs socio-economically diverse schools, then to what do we do about attendance, then to I know exactly what is causing the attendance problem here but what is the solution, to teenage pregnancy and now abortion and mental health.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 1:59:14 PM

Maybe my view is skewed due to me living in one of these neighborhoods. The lady 2 doors down is 30 and has 8 children. Never finished high school. I've had conversations with her about her kids struggling in school and it boiled down to them not doing hw. All her kids did were play outside, video games, etc from the time they got off the bus to the time they went to bed.

^ sorry for jumping around but I think all these things have to do with low performance and you have a lot of good ideas there. I'm just ranting that none of these issues are being brought upnon a national level. All the US knows right now is that we are tKing things back to segregation.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 2:01:28 PM

Quote :

"Maybe my view is skewed due to me living in one of these neighborhoods. The lady 2 doors down is 30 and has 8 children."

Anecdotal evidence is a TERRIBLE basis for public policy decisions.

1/19/2011 2:06:11 PM

Quote :

"1. Bussing for diversity increases the bus rides in Wake County an average of fifteen minutes."

BridgetSPK:where did you get this info? is this a tru average? do you know the std deviations?

i'm genuinely curious. no trolling or anything.

i dont have kids and i dont really have much of an opinion on this because i agree partially with both sides (however if this is correct and not many outliers ill tend to agree with diversification, but i can't take numbers thrown at me as fact )

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/19/2011 2:08:14 PM

More diversity in TWW

1/19/2011 2:10:55 PM

Quote :

"Maybe my view is skewed due to me living in one of these neighborhoods. The lady 2 doors down is 30 and has 8 children. Never finished high school. I've had conversations with her about her kids struggling in school and it boiled down to them not doing hw. All her kids did were play outside, video games, etc from the time they got off the bus to the time they went to bed."

The fact that she didn't complete high school I think backs up your claim that they aren't getting pushed enough. It is probably harder to see the value of it, if you haven't accomplished it yourself. I've suggested some solutions to deal with that already.

I see another problem too. A 1 to 8 ratio looks pretty rough. After school activities might be something to consider if they're into playing a lot. It ties in their connection to school more, and gets them off her hands for a while.

As for the kids not doing their homework. Again we need to ask why. Do they not know how to, do they need a remedial class, do they need to develop better homework skills with some tutoring or the teachers spending more time reviewing homework in class. Do they not do homework because they don't have the resources they need like calculators or access to the internet? Do we need to get these kids a public library card so they can access the internet?

I think your example, while anecdotal, is a good one because it highlights several issues going on. You just can't ever stop at "kids just aren't doing their homework" or "kids are just getting pregnant younger these days" or "kids just aren't getting pushed to go to school." It always needs to be followed up with a Why? And once we know why, what solutions out there can address this problem?

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 2:11:00 PM

Quote :

"You just can't ever stop at "kids just aren't doing their homework" or "kids are just getting pregnant younger these days" or "kids just aren't getting pushed to go to school.""

i think a LOT of this has to deal with that school isn't "cool" anymore.
even less so than when i was a teenager.

i would think it's probably more common for a smart kid to fall back on his work to hang out with the rebels than for a mediocre kid to give up his friends to do well in school.

however this is completely and totally just an opinion. i have NO data on this and i could be 100% wrong.
so go easy on me

1/19/2011 2:15:13 PM

^^^^ my situation if I had kids in my current home for high school would be a thirty minute drive in a car. Add a bus and stops to the equation and you are an hour or more.

^^ true but is it necessary to send them far from home to figure that out? I think that after school programs would be difficult to deal with when the kid is 15-20 miles from home.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:19 PM. Reason : ^]

1/19/2011 2:18:47 PM

Quote :

"i have NO data on this and i could be 100% wrong."

No statement that starts with saying data support is a good thing can be wrong!

Quote :

"i would think it's probably more common for a smart kid to fall back on his work to hang out with the rebels "

Quote :

"school isn't "cool" anymore."

That may very well be true. If that is something we observed the question is then how do we fix it? We can increase the cool value of school. Throw in a shop class, set up some internships for high school student or shadowing for middle school students with professions they're interested in, more field trips, more athletics, more pep rallies, or what have you. And decrease the weight of coolness among the factors influencing kids. Show them just how much they could be making if pursue various degrees. I remember my class going to the library and looking through the occupational outlook handbook at job outlooks, descriptions, and pay, and all of us talking about what we would do if we had that much money. And as always look at schools where the top performing students remain consistent throughout the years for the most part, and steal program ideas from them. Heck, you could even survey some of the students to see what parts of school they like the best and dislike the worst, and try to play around with those. Make a much bigger deal of school spirit week. Have the principle get in on it dressed up ridiculously for a rally, or what have you.

I mean I'm just throwing ideas off the top of my head, I have to imagine someone who is actually in education could do much better with coming up with ideas. And of course you have to recognize that somethings you just can't change easily. School being less cool as you get older may just be a fact of adolescent psychology pushing back against social norms. It may be a lot harder to change, and that is where you get into efficiency choices. I have a limited budget, which program is getting me more bang for my buck in terms of student performance outcomes, and if you recognize one thing is just really hard to change, focus your monies elsewhere. But the whole point is that you never stop at something "just is that way."

Quote :

"^^ true but is it necessary to send them far from home to figure that out? I think that after school programs would be difficult to deal with when the kid is 15-20 miles from home."

True. If a lot of the problems a school was having was successfully diagnosed (either by survey, or focus group, or direct observation, or literature/policy review of similar situated schools) as due to distances between schools and homes being too far, then you should absolutely reconsider those distances.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 2:32:23 PM

I'm curious about this magical time when school was cool and "rebels" had no influence

1/19/2011 2:35:45 PM

^ i never said there was a time like that


but i think its worse now than it has been in the past.

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ...but i dont know :shrug:]

1/19/2011 2:36:42 PM

Quote :

"but i think its worse now than it has been in the past."

And that is a perfectly legitimate hypothesis to have
(as long as one remembers the scientific method never stops at the hypothesis!)

1/19/2011 2:38:00 PM

unfortunately this topic is not in my line of expertise.


so i need to go by the expertise of others

1/19/2011 2:39:07 PM

that picture of Mr. Escalante on the first page made me crack up

1/19/2011 2:54:24 PM

^^Education isn't mine either, but Public Administration is, or rather will be by the end of this semester when I graduate. I just found out I passed my comprehensive exams for my masters program yesterday.

So a lot of my classes are training for being a manager or supervisor in a government agency, or how to be exec director or grant writer or other position in a non-profit organization, or being a consultant or program evaluator for government or non-profit programs, and that sort of thing.

In fact of my exam questions for those Comps basically said you find yourself in the situation of being a superintendent when that new school board in Wake county was elected and you're dealing with these competing factions a request from the board that you draw up a new districts/busing plans. What do you do?

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 2:59 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2011 2:59:43 PM

^thats really cool

graduated with biochemistry/genetics.
researched for a while.

now im back in school getting my doctorate in pharmacy

(which i really really should be studying )

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 3:03 PM. Reason : dsxfd]

1/19/2011 3:02:54 PM

The schools aren't the problem, it's the culture.

You can implement every program in your wildest dreams and nothing will fix it. too many people (be it parents or kids) just don't give a shit, and our society doesn't really let anyone fail.

1/19/2011 3:16:04 PM

Quote :

"I'm curious about this magical time when school was cool and "rebels" had no influence "

aha I was thinking the same thing.

1/19/2011 3:27:13 PM

Quote :

"You can implement every program in your wildest dreams and nothing will fix it. too many people (be it parents or kids) just don't give a shit, and our society doesn't really let anyone fail."

1/19/2011 3:31:28 PM

Quote :

"You can implement every program in your wildest dreams and nothing will fix it."

Nothing will fix it totally. There's nothing wrong with trying to mitigate it in a cost-effective manner. Of course we can debate what we all consider to be cost-effective.

1/19/2011 3:39:31 PM

Quote :

"Although most students here ride buses to school, officials said fewer than 10 percent are bused to a school to maintain diversity, and most bus rides are less than five miles."

Interesting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011107423_2.html

1/19/2011 3:57:31 PM

Quote :

"1. Bussing for diversity increases the bus rides in Wake County an average of fifteen minutes."

That's just plain false. The average bus ride is 17 minutes.

1/19/2011 4:01:01 PM

i don't believe that. there is no way drive a route, fill a bus, and return to school in 17 minutes.

1/19/2011 4:23:27 PM

yeah that's bullshit. i rememeber when i was in elementary school which was literally 3 miles down the road and the bus ride was almost an hour.

1/19/2011 4:27:04 PM

Probably because they used "driving time" on map quest. Lol

1/19/2011 4:28:16 PM

Some of you clearly went to poor performance schools, where they don't teach things like basic reading comprehension, or what "average" means.

1/19/2011 4:28:37 PM

My bus ride was only 3-4 minutes, but I also lived on the same road as the school

You know, now that I think of it, I don't really get why they spent money busing us kids in that neighborhood for middle school. Could have saved money and made us healthier by making us walk.

1/19/2011 4:28:43 PM

i understand what average means, i don't think its 17 minutes

cite a source please

[Edited on January 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM. Reason : ^ why didn't you walk?]

1/19/2011 4:30:05 PM

I did start walking when I was in 7th grade and realized I could sleep longer if I walked instead of standing around waiting for the bus. No idea why nobody else did it. Probably a bunch of lazy sods

Quote :

"Art Pope and Bob Luddy were the two largest campaign contributors in the October 2009 school board election. Pope is the North Carolina state head of Americans for Prosperity, a far-right advocacy group, and uses AFP and his vast array of right-wing media to promote charter schools and urge North Carolina to lift its cap on the number of charters in the state. Bob Luddy runs three private schools in Wake County and a charter school in Franklin County. He has stated he wishes to build a network of 25 to 50 schools in Wake County based on his Thales Academy in Apex (of which school board chairman Ron Margiotta is on the board of trustees). Both men provided a combined $38,000 to get their Republican candidates elected. But that sum is chump change compared to the financial rewards Luddy would reap if his schools were approved for charter status. Consider: if the new board majority approved just one of Luddy's schools as a charter, under current NC per-pupil spending, a school with 300 students would receive over $2 million in taxpayer money -- YOUR money -- every year."

It's all about the benjamins, baby.

1/19/2011 4:34:41 PM

Hooooold up! Wait a minute!

I've been to Minnesota, and there are waaaay more black people than that. Minneapolis is at least 90% black. This chart is a fake.

1/19/2011 4:38:14 PM

Art Pope is an evil son of a bitch

1/19/2011 4:38:14 PM

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/lets-go-shopping-with-art-pope/Content?oid=1770426

1) I didn't know he owned Roses.
2) I had no idea Roses was still around.

1/19/2011 4:42:20 PM

OMG they sell stuff made in china?

1/19/2011 4:57:56 PM