Given the choice, I'd go to NCSU in a heartbeat if it's going to be free. There's no damn way to predict what's going to happen over the next few years, much less be able to make claims like "I'll earn at least $10K more with a Duke degree over some other school." Spending $100K+ on a MBA in a market that's already overflowing with MBA's is nuts, IMO.

2/2/2011 12:12:39 PM

^Not a math major.

He doesn't have to earn 10k more compared to another MBA program. He just has to make 10k more than he's earning now. Which would be hard not to do.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 1:24 PM. Reason : f]

2/2/2011 1:24:04 PM

Agree'd (somewhat). An MBA may/may not be worth an additional 10K depending on what he's making now. I sure as hell wouldn't plan on that based on what the market's doing. MBA's are a dime a dozen these days. I've seen too many friends struggling lately with MBA's, law degrees, etc, to say an MBA is a stone-cold lock for anything. God forbid he had some illness/accident/whatever that could affect his ability to even work in the future. Life happens, and if you can get the same credential for $75K less, that's what I'd do. YMMV.

2/2/2011 2:10:23 PM

Quote :

" in a market that's already overflowing with MBA's is nuts, IMO."

Would you say that you should go to Catawba college instead of NC State or M.I.T, since the market is already overflowing with those who have undergraduate degrees? That is a real question, by the way. I read it over and realized it can sound a little dickish.

Quote :

"How do you conclude that one has less professional success based on GMAT and undergrad GPA ?"

Would you not consider an exec or financier who has a strong history of academic performance to be capable of providing better insight and debate compared with someone who has not?

2/2/2011 2:19:45 PM

Quote :

"Would you not consider an exec or financier who has a strong history of academic performance to be capable of providing better insight and debate compared with someone who has not?"

The only positions that academic performance will have ANY influence on are entry-level, really. I haven't been asked about my GPA (especially for undergrad) since my first job interview at age 22.

And this is said so often that it is nearly cliche, but I've known some Wharton grads and Harvard grads who had absolutely know business acumen and I've known a UoP grad who was CFO of a MNC and had a brilliant mind.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 2:34 PM. Reason : x]

2/2/2011 2:32:52 PM

Okay, so it is your contention that those with Wharton and Harvard MBAs are, on the average, of equal intelligence and work ethic as those with NC State or University of Phoenix MBAs?

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 2:41 PM. Reason : ?]

2/2/2011 2:38:38 PM

Quote :

"I agree on the networking part"

IMHO this is the only major difference between the two.

Quote :

"He doesn't have to earn 10k more compared to another MBA program. He just has to make 10k more than he's earning now. Which would be hard not to do. "

With your argument than NCSU v. Duke would not matter. Putting a 105k debt load for the prestige of "going to duke" and networking
into a marginally better job is a big gamble. I do not consider myself "risk adverse" but the upside to downside does not seem to even out.

If you graduate from DUKE and get a job you just as easily would have gotten after going to NCSU = you lose
If you graduate from DUKE and can't find a job = you lose
If you are like my associate down the hall who has a MBA and does the same thing I do with a B.S. in engineering = you lose
If you network your way from DUKE to a VP position for some big corporation = you win

I'd take the free ride. If you think you are a mega-A type personality and believe you are going to climb your way to the top than go DUke.

If I went back to grad school I would be going for engineering. Everybody and their aunt is getting a MBA these days. Being a corporate VP sounds pretty lame anyway.

Quote :

"Would you not consider an exec or financier who has a strong history of academic performance to be capable of providing better insight and debate compared with someone who has not? "

Statistically Yes. As an absolute No. Someone can get a high GPA by kissing lots of ass, luck, developing good relationships with professors, cheating, putting in extra hours of studying, the money to pay for tutors, and/or having a good work ethic.

Someone with an average GPA due to lack of focus in school, potential time management issues, or simply that they had to work 30 hours besides their full course load could be naturally brilliant. GPA correlates to talent but is not universal.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 2:44 PM. Reason : aa]

2/2/2011 2:41:36 PM

Quote :

"Would you not consider an exec or financier who has a strong history of academic performance to be capable of providing better insight and debate compared with someone who has not?"

No.

I would consider an exec or financier who has a strong history of providing good insight and debate as capable of providing better insight and debate compared with someone who has not.

2/2/2011 2:55:26 PM

Quote :

"Okay, so it is your contention that those with Wharton and Harvard MBAs are, on the average, of equal intelligence and work ethic as those with NC State or University of Phoenix MBAs?"

Not necessarily. I'm saying that it is no indication, in and of itself, of higher intelligence or higher work ethic and not nearly as important as a proven track record of industry experience and accumulated knowledge...

2/2/2011 2:57:13 PM

Quote :

"proven track record of industry experience and accumulated knowledge..."

ding ding ding

2/2/2011 2:57:55 PM

Quote :

"He doesn't have to earn 10k more compared to another MBA program. He just has to make 10k more than he's earning now."

Sure, if you were just looking at Duke MBA vs no MBA at all, but you can't just ignore the free ride to NCSU MBA.

2/2/2011 3:45:09 PM

^exactly.

2/2/2011 4:00:13 PM

go to Duke, spend the money, look better. MBAs are more about the name than any other post grad program, in my opinion. I'll probably apply to Duke, UNC, and NCSU for MBA program eventually, and I rank them in that order, too. May add UVA and UT Austin to that list too.

2/2/2011 4:04:48 PM

^^,^^^

I understand what you're trying to say; however, I think that going to NCSU would be a waste of time. He is going to get an equivalent education at either. He's not doing it for the education benefits, he's looking to see which will improve his job choices after her finishes.

He is essentially gambling the next two years of his life on whether anyone cares about the NCSU MBA program.

This is a situation that is similar to choosing between law programs and all that matters in this economy is the name on the resume and networking.

@Geppetto Duke will help you with finances if you do well.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 6:30 PM. Reason : f]

2/2/2011 6:29:43 PM

Quote :

"who has a MBA"

= you lose

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:52 PM. Reason : ..]

2/2/2011 8:51:54 PM

Why are still debating about this?! You need to decide what you want to do post MBA! You mentioned a 550 GMAT score from an applicant - that info is useless. It was probably a minority woman. (there are zero black people in my class, and maybe 5 women in my class, they have HUGE diversity entrance advantage). With a 760 GMAT you can essentially go anywhere you want as far as GMAT averages go (a lot depends on work experience, diversity, etc). What is your dream employer? SAS will come to NCSU, they probably won't recruit at MIT. Goldman Sachs recruits from Wharton/Harvard, they don't recruit from NCSU. You also aren't considering the $25k+ a year for rent, food, supplies, etc. You have to find out if a bank will even loan you $150k for two years. And not to rain on the parade, every Fuqua grad from May '10 grad still doesn't have a real 'MBA' job. One b/c she didn't want to move to NYC, which reverts back to my previous post about the types of companies that recruit.

And it's all what you individually do with it. A Duke MBA might get you through the door, but there are plenty of rich and poor MBA grads from every school. I tend to believe a $100k salary outside of high level finance isn't the case anymore. Nobody I know from Fuqua is making that. I went through the whole process at all the schools, PM me if you have any more questions.

2/17/2011 11:00:16 PM

Quote :

"760 GMAT"

holy shit

2/24/2011 4:09:37 PM

I wanted to do a follow up for a moment...

Short Version:

I chose Duke over UNC and NC State.

Long Version:

I did a lot of debating. I repeated ran models that involved many variations of debt load and income after graduation. Either way I sliced it, after 5 - 10 years, I would be in a better financial position if I went to Duke than if I got no MBA at all. The major question became which school would put me in a better position financially over all. In simple terms, I believe that NC State or UNC has a higher likelihood of putting more long-term cash in my pocket. What that means is, since it is 95% certain that I will remain another cog in the machine of corporate enterprise, that those 3 letters after my name will generate the biggest gains in income and mobility and that the school beside them will provide a marginal increase, but not enough to offset the direct and/or opportunity costs of loan debt.

One thing I kept coming back to is why am I doing this and what do I want to see out of it. I want to learn all I can and from my visits at NC State they just didn't have the academic program or rigor that I want. It sounds really bad to say, especially since I went there for undergrad, but it is true. When it all comes down to it, I also find that I like the Duke cohort better and more academically stimulating. I know I said this before, but those who I know that are going to NC State's program aren't who I see as the future top business leaders. I feel that Duke will provide me the best current and future contacts and that may have something to offer me in the future. If I wanted to get an MBA just to have MBA after my name, then I could get it from Phoenix or Strayer. In fact, when I recently heard an incoming NCSU MBA candidate describe those schools as watering down the MBA market and weakening the brand, I realized that I had those sentiments about NCSU.

Now to what I was saying earlier, that there is a 95% chance I will be a cog in the machine of enterprise, but, should I find myself in other endeavors then I think Duke (meaning the education, brand, and connections) will serve me better. Should I take a direction into finance or into policy the school I chose will make a difference and expose me to an earning potential that will surpass that I would see with NCSU.

Anyway, I am open to the thoughts of others, and, should future MBA candidates stumble upon this thread, I hope that my simple meanderings will provide a sense of insight and direction for what is right for you.

3/28/2011 8:15:14 PM

^ First off, kudos for doing the research and going with what you felt was the right decision.

Secondly, and this is my advice (Master's Econ / Econometrics), specialize in something that's worth a damn in the job market. There are too many MBAs at my office who did nothing but take high-level courses across a range of different disciplines (advanced undergrad finance, advanced under grad statistics, et al until they graduated). Look to do the degree with a concentration on financial mathematics or whatever may be your end goal. It sounds like youre going to Duke because you think youll get the most out of it, so be sure that it shows in your knowledge/specialty once youve graduated.

[Edited on March 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM. Reason : sausage fingers]

3/28/2011 9:25:48 PM

Whatevs.

Keeping it friendly.

[Edited on March 28, 2011 at 10:37 PM. Reason : Resisting the urge.]

3/28/2011 10:34:45 PM

I think you made the right/smart decision. good luck!

3/28/2011 11:10:40 PM