this is starting to sound like some cartesian philosophy now.

COGITO ERGO SUM BITCHES

2/2/2011 10:45:21 AM

i love philosophy

2/2/2011 10:46:18 AM

2/2/2011 10:47:20 AM

sometimes i dont think im smart enough for some of the concepts...but i try

2/2/2011 10:49:14 AM

Quote :

"fucking baptists is pretty much the same as fucking methodists."

Methodists will say hello to one another at the liquor store.

2/2/2011 11:13:08 AM

Joie, I know exactly what you mean, especially after studying embryology in so much depth. The amount of detail that goes into the making of a life is amazing. Just my 2 cents

2/2/2011 11:29:56 AM

apparently lots of people here fail at reading comprehension.

what i said:

Quote :

"fucking baptists is pretty much the same as fucking methodists."

what some people read it as:

Quote :

"fucking baptists are pretty much the same as fucking methodists."

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

2/2/2011 2:35:11 PM

Quote :

"apparently lots of people here fail at reading comprehension."

*raises hand*

2/2/2011 4:03:10 PM

lol

2/2/2011 4:03:29 PM

fucking Baptists, how do they work?

2/2/2011 4:11:07 PM

fucking Baptists, how does it work?

2/2/2011 4:49:31 PM

Quote :

"Just leave me the fuck alone. I'm not interested in your kool aid."

i think you should've told this to the baptists, instead of tww

2/2/2011 4:55:32 PM

At least the Lutherans are still cool.

2/2/2011 5:23:04 PM

Quote :

"My whole point is, I don't think you can say that the egg and sperm are "two parts of an incomplete human.""

I'm well aware that the process is far more complicated. What you're not aware of is that in a general explanation of pre-conception and post-conception, is that my description is pretty accurate. Yeah, it's simple. It was intended to be simple. It's stupid and extraneous to get into the nitty gritty when it has no relevance to what I was saying.

Quote :

"I bet the whole time he was talking you were thinking about the big deal you were going to make over this on TWW."

Yes. My life revolves around TWW. That's why I posted this s 4 hours after the event.

Quote :

"Moral: don't generalize asshat"

Read what I said and you would notice I didn't generalize. I never said ALL Christians or Baptists recruit and push their beliefs on others. I was specifically talking about these people who bothered me. Like I said. I don't give a shit as far as what you believe in. Just keep your bullshit to yourself and leave me the fuck alone.

Quote :

"To this day, that is the nicest, most genuine, and most helpful group of people I have ever been a part of."

I think of "genuine" as being people doing something without any outside influence. Baptists, and heck, Christians in general, don't strike me as genuine, as everything they're doing is influenced by (to them) an outside influence, God. If people are doing nice things because of "God," I can't count them as being genuine. I view it like coercion, really. They're being threatened with the prospect of Hell if they don't be God. From a moral aspect, if their actions are moral, then I don't care about the influence. But when labeling someone as being "genuine," I cannot classify them as such.

Quote :

"Quit fucking whining, you could have just said "I'm not interested" and shut the door."

Quit fucking whining, you could have just hit the "back" button on your browser.

Quote :

"RAWR RAWR RAWR I'M AN ATHIEST AND I'M SO MUCH SMARTER THAT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE"

Yeah. Probably. In real life, I don't go around pounding their beliefs to the ground. Honestly, religion is a topic I try my best to avoid. If I'm unable to, I just say "uhuh," "yeah" and "ok." Unless I know the person, I just avoid giving my opinion, especially with older people. With people around my age, I will tell them what my beliefs are if I'm asked.

Quote :

"Man, I know this is a gross generalization, but it sure seems like atheists are a rather narcissistic bunch"

Are you sure that we're not just realistic instead of blindly optimistic, like Christians are. Do you believe in God because you want him and heaven to exist, because you need it to exist, so you can swallow the thought of death? But then you look at all of the religions that are in existence, and I can't help but ask, "why aren't you Budhist" What makes Christianity more compelling over the others, or even the thought of there being no God?

2/2/2011 6:50:28 PM

Quote :

"can't help but ask, "why aren't you Budhist" What makes Christianity more compelling over the others, or even the thought of there being no God?"

upbringing. social influences.

it's not much different than political parties, or your interests.


im kinda shocked you had to ask this. i figure you would know more about anthropology than the "lesser" kind.




[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 7:00 PM. Reason : shocked shocked. oops]

2/2/2011 6:58:44 PM

and I don't wanna talk to an atheist...

2/2/2011 6:59:51 PM

dang

2/2/2011 7:00:08 PM

I am so glad no one has made fun of my Amish beliefs.

2/2/2011 7:19:37 PM

Everybody should study "cargo cults". Basically they're primitive societies in the SW Pacific Ocean who worship the American military as god. These island cultures had no contact with the outside world until WWII at which point America rolled up and built a bunch of air strips. We used the locals for labor and in return gave them medicine, food, clothing etc. Then the war ended and we bounced leaving them with nothing. Their primitive understand of the world could not comprehend what happened so they rationalized that the Americans were gods and angels from heaven who came down with wings (planes) and brought happiness and health to their societies. They believed the gods would return to earth one day. Years later some anthropologists went back and found giant wooden replicas of C130 planes, the locals were dressed in GI uniforms, carrying wooden rifles and wearing wooden headsets. They even maintained the runways and built fires to imitate runway lights hoping that the gods would return.

This is how pliable the human mind is. We manifest irrational thoughts into reality when we can't explain them.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 7:22 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 7:20:42 PM

Quote :

"cue froshkiller's thoughts on religion"

I knew that post was the most juvenile rant I'd ever seen the moment it became a tdub meme.


SKYDADDY LOVERS ITT.

FUCK YOU ALL.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 7:23 PM. Reason : t]

2/2/2011 7:23:26 PM

Quote :

"upbringing. social influences. it's not much different than political parties, or your interests. im kinda shocked you had to ask this. i figure you would know more about anthropology than the "lesser" kind. "

I already knew the answer. But honestly, how often do most Christians, or really anyone for that matter, think about why they believe in what they do? My parents are Christian, I was raised it. But being raised something, and accepting it as "fact" doesn't make it so.

2/2/2011 7:42:15 PM

youre right. 100%


and on the same token im sure your social surroundings have influenced you into atheism.
i mean, unless you think you are inherently more intelligent than everyone else who is religious.


[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 7:50 PM. Reason : sdfds]

2/2/2011 7:47:21 PM

I believe that a lot of people question their beliefs at some point in their lives, usually young adults from what I've witnessed. I analyze myself and my beliefs often and usually even think about decisions I've made and why I have chosen them. Maybe everyone doesn't do this, but they should.

2/2/2011 7:50:03 PM

^

2/2/2011 7:52:56 PM

^^yeah. i agree. and honestly i think a lot of people do.

but i dont know.


at least anecdotally it seems like it (yes i know anecdotes are baaaaad! )

2/2/2011 7:54:49 PM

Baptist and southern Baptist is different.

2/2/2011 8:02:12 PM

and westboro baptist

2/2/2011 8:03:08 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to find a nice wholesome church, but it seems harder than it should be"

I was talking with a new co-worker who, after turning away from Buddhism and giving a handful of Christian denominations a try, found that the best religion for her (and her husband) is Jehovah's Witness(ing?) I don't know anything about the sect other than the fact that they get made fun of all the time.

Sounds like they're super neutral (no patriotism, no voting, no politics..) and according to a teacher friend of mine, don't celebrate any holidays. Having a JW kid in class means no holiday celebrations/decorations

2/2/2011 8:03:45 PM

Quote :

"and on the same token im sure your social surroundings have influenced you into atheism."

No. I don't discuss religion with people. It's a topic I try to avoid. If anything, I would say my social surroundings is why I was a Christian when I was young. It was my understanding of my surroundings and my own analysis of my surroundings that led me to becoming atheist. The belief God is similar to having an imaginary friend to me. I once had an imaginary friend, but I couldn't see, feel, hear, ect, him. At the time I felt like I could, because I wanted to. But over time, I came to the realization that the imaginary friend isn't real. What makes God any different? Because there is a book written on it? Basing your beliefs around a book is illogical. Why should I believe in God any more than I do Harry Potter? They both have a book(s) that revolve around them.

There was one thing the Baptist guy was right about. It's about belief. You have to believe in God. And to me, that's not a logical reason. I need something more than a book telling me to believe, or a guy telling me to believe. Belief is just a blind acceptance of something. I don't think that's a good way to lead your life. If you want to, that's your choice.

But just because your beliefs are influenced by your social surroundings, it is illogical to draw the same conclusion about myself, or anyone else. You may be a sheep, but not everyone is.

2/2/2011 8:17:19 PM

Quote :

"It was my understanding of my surroundings and my own analysis of my surroundings that led me to becoming atheist. The belief God is similar to having an imaginary friend to me. I once had an imaginary friend, but I couldn't see, feel, hear, ect, him. At the time I felt like I could, because I wanted to. But over time, I came to the realization that the imaginary friend isn't real."

so you completely came up with this idea on your own.
you had no help from friends or anyone else.
no one to push you in one direction or another (even if they try to push you in the opposite...it's still an influence)


if your parents had been atheists do you think you would have explored an alternative route?

i guess what i'm asking here is do you believe you are completely avoid of any outside influences?


if so then my hats off to you and there is no use in talking with you about anything.
if youre not influenced by anyone then whats the point?

and by the way ....theres no need to be so fucking pretentious about it.
hell, i was admiring youre responses till you threw the sheep card.


i was in no way comparing you to a sheep so much as i was comparing you to a human being.





.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:34 PM. Reason : dgfd]

2/2/2011 8:26:53 PM

Y'all are going to feel mighty stupid when you end up in the underworld looking up at the Mormons who were the only ones to get it right.

2/2/2011 8:31:02 PM

^^ devoid or just void
good line of questioning, though
and one I roundly agree with - be skeptical of any man that claims originality

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Meditation XVII
John Donne

I'm an atheist but that preacher was the fucking jam

(PS this is also a reason to give some money to the bums lest another clod be washed away by the sea)



[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:32 PM. Reason : -]

2/2/2011 8:32:06 PM

Quote :

"No. I don't discuss religion with people. It's a topic I try to avoid."

obviously this is not the case judging by the OP.

of course when you say "discuss" you probably mean that you only talk and don't listen.

2/2/2011 8:32:08 PM

Quote :

"Does the universe really exist if there is nobody alive to comprehend it?"

Did the universe exist a few million years ago, before humans were around?

2/2/2011 8:32:32 PM

^ not for humanity, which is the yardstick of all human meaning

2/2/2011 8:33:51 PM

Quote :

"devoid or just void"

ahahaha i totally just tried to look up the right word.

guess i got it wrong.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:35 PM. Reason : this may sound terrible but i have never head that before either snewf. i like. ]

2/2/2011 8:33:53 PM

de plane

2/2/2011 8:35:14 PM

Quote :

"MEDITATION 17, BY JOHN DONNE NUNC LENTO SONITU DICUNT, MORIERIS [Now this bell tolling softly for another, says to me, Thou must die.] Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he know not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me and see my state may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that. The church is catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does, belongs to all. When she baptizes a child, that action concerns me; for that child is thereby connected to that body which is my head too, and ingrafted into that body whereof I am a member. And when she buries a man, that action concerns me: all mankind is of one author and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated. God employs several translators; some pieces are translated by age, some by sickness, some by war, some by justice; but God's hand is in every translation, and his hand shall bind up all our scattered leaves again for that library where every book shall lie open to one another. As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come, so this bell calls us all; but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness. There was a contention as far as a suit (in which piety and dignity, religion and estimation, were mingled) which of the religious orders should ring to prayers first in the morning; and it was determined that they should ring first that rose earliest. If we understand aright the dignity of this bell that tolls for our evening prayer, we would be glad to make it ours by rising early, in that application, that it might be ours as well as his whose indeed it is. The bell doth toll for him that thinks it doth; and though it intermit again, yet from that minute that that occasion wrought upon him, he is united to God. Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world? No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Neither can we call this a begging of misery or a borrowing of misery, as though we were not miserable enough of ourselves but must fetch in more from the next house, in taking upon us the misery of our neighbors. Truly it were an excusable covetousness if we did; for affliction is a treasure, and scarcely any man hath enough of it. No man hath affliction enough that is not matured and ripened by it and made fit for God by that affliction. If a man carry treasure in bullion, or in a wedge of gold, and have none coined into current money, his treasure will not defray him as he travels. Tribulation is treasure in the nature of it, but it is not current money in the use of it, except we get nearer and nearer our home, heaven, by it. Another man may be sick too, and sick unto death, and this affliction may lie in his bowels as gold in a mine and be no use to him; but this bell that tells me of his affliction digs out and applies that gold to me, if by this consideration of another's danger I take mine own into contemplation and so secure myself by making my recourse to my God, who is our only security."

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:38 PM. Reason : -]

2/2/2011 8:37:41 PM

all you really needed to say was "hey, I'm not interested. thx. bye."

2/2/2011 8:39:39 PM

that is effing sweet.


and for the record ... just because we're on the subject.
i feel like theres a difference between believing in god, versus believing god exists.
i can believe in democracy, i can see its consequences. will i ever actually see democracy? no. (da-dum ching! lol. )



at the moment i feel like god isn't a person....it's essence of life and consciousness. like an energy.
but that is willing to change based on my future experiences and learning


ok, ok. i know thats way more than you wanted to hear but i find this topic to be soooooo fascinating. my views are forever changing on this subject. i feel like i learn something new any time i talk about it!


although part of me wants me to go the more traditional route. i mean...why should i be so hell bent on being right?


[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:01 PM. Reason : aedsa]

2/2/2011 8:55:24 PM

tldr

2/2/2011 8:56:19 PM

Quote :

"so you completely came up with this idea on your own."

Outside of TWW, I don't discuss religion with others. And I was atheist a good bit before I started posting here.

Quote :

"you had no help from friends or anyone else. "

No. My friends are similar. It's a topic we really just avoid. I know what his beliefs are, we just don't discuss our reasoning behind it with each other.

Quote :

"no one to push you in one direction or another (even if they try to push you in the opposite...it's still an influence)"

Nobody in my family knows what my beliefs are. I think they may think I'm still Christian. If they ask me, I will probably lie to them, just to avoid the discussion.

I don't go online looking for people's opinions on religion either. I really don't care about other people's opinions about religion.

Quote :

"if your parents had been atheists do you think you would have explored an alternative route? "

Quite possibly. They are Christian, I was too. I explored an alternative route. Why would it be any different from the reverse side. I've looked at other religions years ago. It's not so much I reject the notion of a Christian/Jewish/Islam God, it's that I reject the notion of any type of deity, or higher being. The reason you won't hear my discuss other religions, is because Christians seem to be the only ones who try to push their beliefs onto other people.

Quote :

"i guess what i'm asking here is do you believe you are completely avoid of any outside influences?"

That would be impossible for me to say in absolute certainty. I believe that I am. Being aware of other people's opinions and casting them aside isn't something I consider to be an influence then. If I am aware of a person's opinion, I just think, "you're wrong," or "you're right." I know my beliefs. I've evaluated them myself, alone, ect. I'm not saying that anything inside of my head is an original thought/belief/whatever. What I'm saying is that I arrived to my conclusions by myself.

Quote :

"hell, i was admiring youre responses till you threw the sheep card."

I'm sorry I threw it then. I interpreted your initial statement as being more confrontational than originally intended. It sounded as if you were attempting to turn what I said around back on me (my statement about people being Christian simply because they were told that is what is right). If people actually, and truly, try to look at their beliefs objectively and logically while casting away any fear mongering, then I think they will be able to make a true assessment of their beliefs. I'm not saying they will come up to the same conclusion I did, but at least they questioned their beliefs. But with Christianity teaching people to not question God because it's a bad thing and they're going to hell because they're nonbelievers, I seldom see Christians who actually try to objectively evaluate their beliefs and assessing them in a logical manner.

Like, how many people do you know of who would be up in arms if I compared God to an imaginary friend? I know of a lot of people who would be saying stuff like "WELL YOUR IMAGINARY FRIEND WASN'T REAL, GOD IS REAL! THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE! CAN YOUR IMAGINARY FRIEND CURE CANCER, SEND YOU TO HEAVEN? NO!" But when I look at God, in the most objective manner that I possibly can, and I break down the idea of God to as simple a concept that I possibly can, he's nothing more than the ultimate imaginary friend. If I could go back in time and create a kickass imaginary friend, God would be it! Water into wine? YES PLEASE! But if you were to suggest it to a lot of people, you're instantly shut out. I will admit though, I've never actually done this to someone, simply because I just want to avoid a confrontation.

2/2/2011 9:11:31 PM

understandable.
i can totally see where youre coming from.
i actually considered myself a bit of an atheist for a bit (very short while, and then was pretty agnostic for a while) and sorta had the same conclusions.

Quote :

"What I'm saying is that I arrived to my conclusions by myself."

i am having an issue understanding this statement. don't most people come to their own conclusions?
perhaps they don't put much thought into it like you did, but ultimately it's a decision not to think about it?
or are you saying you think about it more than the "average religious" person (i use quotes there because i dont know what else to call it )?

Quote :

"Christians seem to be the only ones who try to push their beliefs onto other people."

correct me if im wrong, but aren't some islamic sects just as bad?


and also another .02....which is gonna be slightly opposing your beliefs! ahaha
i just really don't understand the need to be be so concrete when being athetist, or agnostic, or just having an overall belief in god.
i understand it if you are a christian, or jewish, or islamic-its your religion and it should be the most important aspect of your life. however i feel like if that doesnt describe you than what does it hurt to keep your mind open ya know?
learning is good for muh brain.


im gonna go study now, but twas nice talking to you
sorry it got a little rough there!
i always feel like i take something away from someone who has a steadfast belief, because mine sways




[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:30 PM. Reason : fghg]

2/2/2011 9:24:02 PM

All I know is that I have faith that God is real. I believe that Jesus died for me. I like to call myself a Christian because I do my best to follow what Jesus taught. He told us that going out in the streets and making a scene of our faith was not the way to go. Instead he told us to pray behind closed doors. Why? Because ultimately your faith is between you and God, not you and everyone else. He wanted us to go out and make disciples of all nations and baptize them. He didn't want us to make a show of it and guilt people into doing it. He wanted us to treat everyone equally. He wanted us to be peaceful.

2/2/2011 9:33:32 PM

Quote :

"Christians seem to be the only ones who try to push their beliefs onto other people."

oh my God, dude, I don't even know where to begin with this. I'm pretty much agnostic, myself, but that statement isn't even remotely true.

2/2/2011 9:42:29 PM

Quote :

"I'm well aware that the process is far more complicated. What you're not aware of is that in a general explanation of pre-conception and post-conception, is that my description is pretty accurate. Yeah, it's simple. It was intended to be simple. It's stupid and extraneous to get into the nitty gritty when it has no relevance to what I was saying."

Actually, it's not (your description, that is). Mainly because the way you described it, it seemed like the sperm and the egg were still within someone and added up with all their other parts to create said human. When really, the sperm and egg come together and from there all other things are formed. That's the issue I have -- you described it as sperm + egg + foot + mind + gallbladder (and so on) = human.... when really it should be stated in a way that demonstrates sperm + egg = foot + mind + gallbladder (and so on) which then leads to a human.


Basically, don't lump the sperm and the egg together with all the other parts of a human when those parts all came from those two key pieces.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:50 PM. Reason : I know this is trivial but I don't like misleading embryological statements]

2/2/2011 9:50:06 PM

It's been a while since I chimed in on a religion thread, but merbig I just want to ask you to consider something:

Why do you consider it fear-mongering if a religious person brings up your death? You seem to have this preconceived idea that they are "selling" religion to you as if it were some sort of product that they have to trick or coerce you into buying. What do you think they get out of talking to you? Do you think they really want to be out knocking on strangers' doors and confronting people? I will tell you this in case you haven't figured it out yet- they are not there to try to make money off you or for their personal gain. They are out there putting their personal comfort aside because they feel there is something bigger at stake (forget about whether you believe in it or not for a second). This takes quite a bit of sincerity and selflessness if you think about it. The reason they bring up death is because the Bible teaches that we do not just cease to exist after we die, but that we either spend eternity with God if we have accepted a relationship with him, or spend it apart from him if we have chosen to reject him. I realize you think the Bible is just a book so that probably does not mean anything to you, but that's where they are coming from. The reliability of the Bible is a whole different discussion which I would be glad to talk with you about sometime if you are open to it. All I'm saying is I know from your point of view they are inconveniencing and annoying you by showing up at your door, but maybe you could at least see it as a caring thing for them to do, whether or not they are right about it.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 11:09 PM. Reason : /]

2/2/2011 11:07:58 PM

Quote :

"correct me if im wrong, but aren't some islamic sects just as bad?"

This is why I used the words "seemed." I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a lot of first hand knowledge of how islamics, or other religions work when it comes to missions and trying to convert people. It's just that in the US, where I live, out of all of the religions and their respective sects, it seems like Christians are the worst when it comes to belief pushing. I've never seen or encountered a Jew trying to push someone into converting. I've never seen a Buddhist who tries to push people into converting. They may be open to converts, but they aren't actively recruiting. You know? I'm not saying that there aren't instances where a Buddhist or a Jew never recruit.

Quote :

"oh my God, dude, I don't even know where to begin with this. I'm pretty much agnostic, myself, but that statement isn't even remotely true."

Maybe if you put a little bit of thought into reading what I wrote, you would understand that I'm not at all trying to provide a fact, but rather an observation based on my own observations and experiences. I was not trying to say that there aren't religions or sects that don't recruit. I was saying that, to me, it seems like Christians are the worst. How often do you hear of a Jew knocking on a door? I knew quite a few Jews, and pretty much all of them were of the opinion that they didn't care if someone converted or not. This isn't to say there isn't a sect of Judaism that doesn't try and recruit, but if anything, they're probably in the minority, and in the US, you would rarely, if ever, run into them.

Meanwhile, in the US, it's common to see Christians trying to recruit/save people. Shit, look at some of the people in Campus Crusades on campus. One lunch, two of them tried to recruit me and my friend to Campus Crusades so they could read the Bible to us.

My statement wasn't intended to be on of fact, but just one of observation. If you think it's incorrect, then by all means, correct me. Maybe you're running into Muslims trying to recruit you all of the time, or you have Jews knocking on your door begging you to go kosher, or Buddhists asking you to rub their belly, or some shit. Obviously, with 80% of the population being Christian, they're going to be in the majority, so seeing them recruit is going to be more common than any other religion in the US. But it also doesn't help that people interpret the Bible as asking them to save others and that churches promote this activity.

Quote :

"Why do you consider it fear-mongering if a religious person brings up your death?"

I consider it fear-mongering because it's the first thing they really jump into. Not 1 minute do I open the door, we're talking about death and what I envision death to be like.

Quote :

"You seem to have this preconceived idea that they are "selling" religion to you as if it were some sort of product that they have to trick or coerce you into buying. What do you think they get out of talking to you? Do you think they really want to be out knocking on strangers' doors and confronting people?"

Well, it was the pastor of the church. And yes, I do think there is something for him to gain by getting new members. For one thing, funding for the church, for which he is paid his salary by. I'm not saying he gets a commission out of each member, but ultimately, if a church wants to survive, it needs members and money.

Quote :

"They are out there putting their personal comfort aside because they feel there is something bigger at stake (forget about whether you believe in it or not for a second). This takes quite a bit of sincerity and selflessness if you think about it. The reason they bring up death is because the Bible teaches that we do not just cease to exist after we die, but that we either spend eternity with God if we have accepted a relationship with him, or spend it apart from him if we have chosen to reject him. I realize you think the Bible is just a book so that probably does not mean anything to you, but that's where they are coming from. The reliability of the Bible is a whole different discussion which I would be glad to talk with you about sometime if you are open to it. All I'm saying is I know from your point of view they are inconveniencing and annoying you by showing up at your door, but maybe you could at least see it as a caring thing for them to do, whether or not they are right about it."

Their heart may be in the right place in their mind, and really, I'm not going to dispute it. Yeah, I brought up the money thing, but I don't think that was the motivator for him being at my door. But it's still very pushy, nosy and selfish to push your beliefs onto someone else and to ask them what their beliefs are. To be quite honest, it's really nobody's business but my own.

Quote :

"All I know is that I have faith that God is real. I believe that Jesus died for me. I like to call myself a Christian because I do my best to follow what Jesus taught. He told us that going out in the streets and making a scene of our faith was not the way to go. Instead he told us to pray behind closed doors. Why? Because ultimately your faith is between you and God, not you and everyone else. He wanted us to go out and make disciples of all nations and baptize them. He didn't want us to make a show of it and guilt people into doing it. He wanted us to treat everyone equally. He wanted us to be peaceful."

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be mean or troll you. I know this is out of order, so sorry. But your entire reasoning past the first sentence relies on the first sentence. And to be honest, some of the teachings in the Bible aren't bad. I wished people would adhere to them better (again, some, there are some details and what not that I disagree with, like shunning homosexuality and that it's like an abomination to God, but some stuff like the 10 commandments, I agree with). Just one thing I've wondered is where did this trust, or faith, in God come from? Why do you have faith that God is real? Is it because that is what you learned? Do you have evidence (personal evidence, something that some people might call a "miracle")? Or is it more of a feeling? If it's a feeling, is it like wishful thinking? Or is it just something deep down inside of you?

If it's a feeling, I know pretty much what you're talking about. The feeling that someone always loves you, no matter what, that you're part of something bigger, your life is for something bigger. In essence, it gives meaning to your life. And I won't lie, it's a good feeling to have. But that feeling, to me, comes from wishful thinking, hope, an idealist view on life. And when I came to terms that ultimately, there is no God, that it was just my own wishful thinking and hope, there is that "empty" feeling for a little while. But over time, you find your own meaning of your life, and it forces you to set goals and look for the good in your own life. I felt like fooling myself may have made me feel a little better, because if something didn't go my own way, I could say "God didn't want me to do this" or whatever other excuse I could pawn off on it being God. But it didn't make my life better. Having to rely on myself and find the good in my life meant I took responsibility for my actions, and if something didn't go my way, I didn't just shrug my shoulders and say "it just wasn't meant to be." I didn't look for "signs" that I should do something. I started making my own opportunities and pursing things I never would have done before.

2/2/2011 11:45:39 PM

baptist is not the same as southern baptist

2/3/2011 12:01:43 AM

not all southern baptists are created equal, either

(and a lot of the truly crazy types are not southern baptists...they're smaller/independant sects)

2/3/2011 12:02:42 AM