^^ With that model car he can simply buy retrofit headlights instead of making them.

5/14/2011 11:58:32 AM

Quote :

"I rented a new one for towing last month, averaged about 7mpg on the highway"

wtf, you sure about that? either something was wrong with it or you were driving like a bat out of hell up a mountain at 90mph. my excursion with the 6.8L v10 (essentially a 5.4L v8 with two extra cylinders), which is considerably larger/heavier/thirstier than an expedition, gets 6-7mpg pulling 12-14k lbs. with a heavy right foot. i've never heard of a 5.4L powered truck, especially a newer 3v, getting mileage anywhere close to that bad. even with loads far exceeding the gcwr.

Quote :

"I have run into an issue where a lot of the gas stations up here (WA) have a $75 limit on gas, so i always have to pump my gas "twice"...its around 100-105 to fill her up..."

yep, it's the same here. some even cut you off at $50. some are $100. now that gas is closing in on $4 a gallon, there have been a few times where i have to reset the pump THREE times to fill my excursion if it's close to empty.

Quote :

"people are curious why you choose to drive around all the time in a vehicle that is: -oversized -hard to park -handles poorly -gets horrible gas mileage"

maybe for the same reasons you drive a vehicle that is:

-noisy
-rough riding
-cramped
-useless for transporting cargo or passengers




[Edited on May 17, 2011 at 9:00 PM. Reason : .]

5/17/2011 8:39:23 PM

^hey, man, I averaged just under 10 towing about 6k with your Excursion coming back from Tarboro. I was tickled. The SuperDodge didn't do that well prior to overdrive tranny.

5/18/2011 3:17:51 AM

^^lol. And yet it doesn't consume more gas than the average car and is very easy to drive. A better comparison would be if I was trying to DD a Dodge Viper

Quote :

"-if you suck at driving sure, i only have problems when trying to fit it in small places or when other people cant park"

Regardless of your driving skill, it is basic physics that a larger vehicle is more difficult to park than a small one.

5/18/2011 9:02:01 AM

Quote :

"very easy to drive."

yeah, i guess, if you don't mind blind spots that could hide 3 of the op's vehicle.

Quote :

"A better comparison would be if I was trying to DD a Dodge Viper"

while the first gens are definitely a joke, second gen cars aren't bad at all comparatively speaking to other sports cars. third/fourth gens are even more refined and very easy to live with daily. gas mileage isn't great a first glance (13/22 epa rating for recent models), but when you consider it's an 8.4 liter v10 making ~600hp it's pretty damn good.

anyway, my basic point before was just that EVERY vehicle has it's downfalls. there is no universally perfect dd, it just boils down to what matches your personal needs and/or your personal desires the best. what's practical for some people and what's enjoyable for some people isn't going to be for others.

5/18/2011 9:40:10 PM

Quote :

"^hey, man, I averaged just under 10 towing about 6k with your Excursion coming back from Tarboro. I was tickled. The SuperDodge didn't do that well prior to overdrive tranny."

WTF Jeepman and I got 11 or so at 21k gross (verified on the truck stop scales)

5/18/2011 10:35:59 PM

With the Excursion? Maybe it was closer to that. It did pretty damn well, and I had that bitch in the wind.

Overdrive what what

5/18/2011 10:50:06 PM

hells yes, this was before I had my dodge and before the superdodge came of the jackstands. we had the fucking AC cranked and two diesel rustbuckets on the trailer too.

5/18/2011 10:52:22 PM

lol, i'm happy to see 11mpg with nothing hooked to it. ya'll must have had a steady 60mph tailwind or found a route that was downhill the whole way.

5/19/2011 3:24:09 AM

I was doing about 90 mph, but not across particularly hilly terrain. I get about 26-28mpg in a late 911 through that drive, just did it yesterday in fact. I haven't had the pleasure of towing much w/my Volvo, but with 1000lbs it still averages over 25mpg, the Expedition couldn't quite hit 12 with a ~2300lbs unladen trailer. I won't forget that gas mileage because it cost me several hundred dollars MORE to fill up than I'd planned and the gas stations wouldn't let me charge more than $75/day on my card (and I don't carry much cash), a trip I make in the Volvo for under $100.


As for Vipers being decent cars, well that's just funny.

5/19/2011 3:54:18 AM

Quote :

"As for Vipers being decent cars, well that's just funny. "

In the grand scheme of factory equipped vehicles versus anything that can be driven on the road, sure it's decent


Ahmet forgetteth about a hot-rodder's point of view.

5/19/2011 7:18:10 AM

Are you serious? What exactly are you comparing it to? A 911 turbo is incomparably higher build quality and better equipped, if you want to compare it to a Z06 because it's close in price, the vette is worlds apart in ride quality and noise levels as well as equipment.

Have you ever actually driven or ridden in one, much less worked on one? The Viper's like a kit car built by special ed students...

5/19/2011 12:43:44 PM

Quote :

"The Viper's like a kit car built by special ed students..."

I think everything that Chrysler offers these days was designed and built by a busload of retards.

5/19/2011 1:01:29 PM

Quote :

"Are you serious? What exactly are you comparing it to? A 911 turbo is incomparably higher build quality and better equipped, if you want to compare it to a Z06 because it's close in price, the vette is worlds apart in ride quality and noise levels as well as equipment. Have you ever actually driven or ridden in one, much less worked on one? The Viper's like a kit car built by special ed students... "

yes, i'm serious. Compared to every other production sports car, probably not, and I would agree with you - BUT - considering it's drivability against driving 'any other car' that's got some level of 'performance', sure, it drives decently. street driving, not on the track.


And no, i have not had the privilege to work on a viper, nor any other sports car. In fact, there are probably <5% of the normal gayragers that have either ridden and/or worked in one, so the argument seems like a moot point to me. I really dont give a shit about most of the sports car blathering that gets hosted by many of the key-pounders in this forum, and I'd venture to say that many would agree with me.

5/19/2011 1:09:52 PM

I guess being a key-pounder beats the hell out of being an ass-pounder.

5/19/2011 1:23:50 PM

Doesn't the Viper ACR have the current record around the Nurburgring?...and not some Porsche?

5/19/2011 1:38:15 PM

Quote :

"I guess being a key-pounder beats the hell out of being an ass-pounder. "

:Beatup:

statement was a little more harsh than i really meant to be; maybe I'm jealous

5/19/2011 2:15:49 PM

Quote :

"I really dont give a shit about most of the sports car blathering that gets hosted by many of the key-pounders in this forum, and I'd venture to say that many would agree with me. "

same here

5/19/2011 2:32:28 PM

So you're just making statements (or assumptions) w/out any experience with one at all?

As for track records, a rocket strapped to a set of wheels and a rudder would be faster but that wouldn't make a good street car either.

5/19/2011 3:27:25 PM

I never argued that. My comment was in direct reply to the remark about the car being built by special ed students, nothing more

5/19/2011 3:32:48 PM

Mr. Splitting Hairs:

I didn't argue that it was fast either.

It's fast, I think it looks cool also actually -esp. the first gen. I would never own one, but it is great, awesome, in fact. But it also sucks, big time. That and I'd never call it a good car.

5/19/2011 3:36:03 PM

Quote :

"So you're just making statements (or assumptions) w/out any experience with one at all? "

how about an assertion? a stock viper is a much better driver than a hot rod, no? I guess that's where I was going with it.

[Edited on May 19, 2011 at 4:20 PM. Reason : driver/dd whatever]

oh shit it was DD a viper.

[Edited on May 19, 2011 at 4:21 PM. Reason : -]

5/19/2011 4:20:11 PM

Splitting hairs? It's not splitting hairs to say that special education students could not build a high performing sports car. It takes more than a hobbled together kit car to have a Viper's performance.


Anyway, I've done enough to derail this thread to hell. I apologize.

5/19/2011 4:39:41 PM

no need to apologize!

5/19/2011 8:23:10 PM

I don't like big cars.

5/19/2011 8:24:41 PM

Quote :

"As for Vipers being decent cars, well that's just funny."

what's funnier is you completely missing the point. all i said is with the exception of first gens they are "decent" at performing daily driver duties when compared to other sports cars/super cars. especially recent models (third/fourth gens). in other words, that means they're not the best, but far from the worst at being a dd. pretty sure no one is going to argue that porsche has better build quality or a zo6 has more standard features. other cars doing things better isn't in question.

i've spent the most time driving/riding in second gen vipers, but have also been in first and third gen cars more than enough to qualify my statements. i have limited first hand experience working on any of them, but that's irrelevant to commenting on daily driveability.

5/19/2011 11:09:40 PM

There's a part of me that would really like to own a Viper, probably a 2nd-gen. To be honest, I'm a little scared of it both from an ownership and a not-balling-it-up perspective, and I don't think it represents a good value.

They still give me a boner, though.

5/19/2011 11:20:14 PM

Quote :

"I was doing about 90 mph"

see, that's kind of a relevant factor to mention before you start bashing a vehicle for its poor fuel mileage. how is it the truck's fault for getting poor mileage/costing you extra money when you're grossly exceeding the parameters for optimal fuel mileage?

[Edited on May 19, 2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason : oh, and comparing a porsche/volvos mpg to a large truck/suv is the definition of apples vs. oranges]

5/19/2011 11:48:24 PM

OK I'll bite; what do you consider to be worse than a Viper in the ultra high performance category as a daily driver that you'd buy from a dealer in the U.S.? A C6 Z06 is as much as I'd consider giving up in build quality, refinement and feel in the name of performance, maybe. I freely admit that Vipers are "fun", but jeebus the car's held together w/duct tape and chewing gum. The chassis feels like a wet noodle, etc. I have not driven the latest ACR beast, but it's hard to imagine a car that is worse to drive at that performance level. To give you perspective, I have no trouble owning 200k+ mile 25 year old Golf GTIs and Volvos and such, I'm really not being elitist about this. The welds look worse than how I imagine a blind folded monkey would do, the ECU is exposed to the fender well, the transmission on a farm tractor feels more crisp panel fitment is probably better in a trabant...

As for fuel economy, I'm looking at the MPG I got at 90mph in an Expedition compared to other vehicles with which I've done that drive. With half as much weight in the Volvo as the Expedition was asked to pull, the Expedition got roughly 16mpg worse, in other words it went less than half as many miles per gallon. I mean, sure we can stop arguing about this but yeah it's good that these different vehicles exist as I'm sure as hell not buying an Expedition unless I had to pull 15,000lbs on a regular basis.



[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 1:57 AM. Reason : trabant]

5/20/2011 1:46:47 AM

haha trabant!!! it's been 15 years since i've seen them, along with wartburgs!

5/20/2011 9:16:58 AM