?

5/15/2011 2:08:50 PM

If I had realized it was post 49 I probably wouldn't have set that up.

5/15/2011 2:11:10 PM

Quote :

"If were all sheep, then shouldn't we have a shepherd? You see where I'm going with this..."

most people's shepherd is the monkey with the loudest, clearest voice

5/15/2011 2:12:58 PM

MAN LANDS ON MOON




WATER FOUND IN OCEAN

5/15/2011 3:03:07 PM

Quote :

"^that is exactly how I view being agnostic (which is what I am)... I'm also a libertarian- where do I fall in all of this mess?"

I was guessing that it's about being socially liberal...you know, the good kind

5/15/2011 4:52:35 PM

5/15/2011 6:03:19 PM

Quote :

"swing and a miss. you have more to worry about or think about, even a minuta of difference here over a lifetime can add up in a large population. there's much more to it that i'm frankly too lazy at 2 am to type or explain. but suffice it to say, you're much more narrow minded"

sick burn at the end there too

so I have more to worry about in what way? not being a part of a huge religious social group? not having peace of mind that there is a plan for everything?

I'd like to know what I am narrow minded about so I can fix it. I'm open to new ideas, I just like to have a good reason to adopt them.

Quote :

"Doesn't that force an atheist to put everything they see and experience into a defined pattern of having an explainable reason?"

Causality makes a lot of sense to me, so.. yes. I see something happen and I assume that something caused it to happen, but I can't be sure of that until I find what caused it. In the mean time 'God did it' could be one of the hypotheses, but so far it has turned out that most things have a better explanation that everyone accepts.

[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 6:27 PM. Reason : .]

5/15/2011 6:12:33 PM

^You know that basically we don't know how anything works, we can only have very good theories for approximating what is true. This is what quantum physics is, a complex mathematical approximation. The only things that we really understand the mechanism behind are....







































MAGNETS.

5/16/2011 1:30:42 AM

the smartest liberals I know are all dumbasses.

5/16/2011 8:03:34 AM

get out of small-town amurrikkka

5/16/2011 8:59:33 AM

can anyone explain why positive and negative forces attract?


(because ultimately it seems like thats what the answer to almost anything boils down to)

5/16/2011 9:08:36 AM

because everything wants to be at a neutral state and the positives and negatives want to hang out to exchange some things and become neutral.

Neutral requires less energy :-)

5/16/2011 9:20:39 AM

Being smarter linked to being smarter? holy fuck

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/16/2011 9:20:54 AM

I'm M.C. Kat on the rap so mic it
Here's a little story; you're sure to like it
Swift and sly and I'm playing it cool
With my homegirl, Paula Abdul

Baby seems we never ever agree
You like the movies
And I like T.V.
I take things serious
And you take 'em light
I go to bed early
And I party all night

Our friends are sayin'
We ain't gonna last
Cuz I move slowly
And baby I'm fast

I like it quiet
And I love to shout
But when we get together
It just all works out

I take 2 steps forward
I take 2 steps back
We come together
Cuz opposites attract
And you know--it ain't fiction
Just a natural fact
We come together
Cuz opposites attract...

5/16/2011 9:21:41 AM

thank you f001


what are these "things" you speak of?

does entropy play a part of this?

5/16/2011 9:24:36 AM

Quote :

"I know that God exists because I don't know how things work"

5/16/2011 9:36:23 AM

Big props to Biofreak70 for the Dax Shepherd pic.

I laughed.

5/16/2011 9:37:29 AM

anything with an electrical charge, or a magnetic polarity really.

Almost anything that has a measured distance away from its neutral state... wants to get back there.

as for the entropy part, it does and doesn't it would take a long time to explain my thoughts on that and i'm not even sure if they're 100% correct.

but...

for fun,

5/16/2011 10:01:39 AM

but what makes the charges?

is it an energy? what makes the energy?

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason : sdfds]

5/16/2011 10:03:07 AM

Energy does make the charge.

and it can come from anything... static energy, heat, nuclear, magnetic, etc.


[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason : .]

5/16/2011 10:07:17 AM

so magnets are constantly radiating energy?

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 10:09 AM. Reason : btw your invitation got sent back dude. i think cod put the wrong addess on it >.< ]

5/16/2011 10:08:51 AM

lol aww Failed by nature :-(

5/16/2011 10:14:26 AM

lol aww Failed by nature :-(


Magnets always have their field radiating out from them, If anything moves through the field the magnets will "move" particles in that item. But all energy that they are associated with doesn't really come from them but is transferred by them if that makes sense? They work like a handle for electrons, you push a magnet and they grab some electrons and move them too, but not using its energy but using the energy of whatever is moving the magnet to transfer charge.

This is how electric motors and generators work. generators Force wires to move through a magnetic field (or force a magnetic field to move near wires) to generate movement of charge and electric motors use this moving charge to move something within a magnetic field.

5/16/2011 10:20:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM#t=3m55s

5/16/2011 1:45:51 PM

sweet, that actually makes sense.


what is the driving force of the field?

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ^cool vid. watching now. ]

5/16/2011 1:48:11 PM

Quote :

"swing and a miss. you have more to worry about or think about, even a minuta of difference here over a lifetime can add up in a large population. there's much more to it that i'm frankly too lazy at 2 am to type or explain. but suffice it to say, you're much more narrow minded less gullible"

5/16/2011 1:52:00 PM

seriously guys-


stop arguing.
everyone is just as hard headed as you.


accept the fact that you are not gonna change anyone's mind.
accept the fact that your line of thinking can be proved wrong.
until you can get off of your high horse in thinking that you are 100% right, you will never be able to have a decent conversation.

you do not have the answers to everything.
hell even steven hawkings said that he would not believe in god if the universe was proven to be infinite.....however it can't really be proven. (i believe i read an article where he said this a while back...i can try to find it if you want)


it's impossible to try to learn anything when all i see is name calling.

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 2:00 PM. Reason : sdfds]

5/16/2011 1:59:01 PM

Quote :

"I suppose that I would classify myself as agnostic *, but I think I get more irked by evangelical atheists than I do by evangelical Christians. Self-righteous, holier-than-thou motherfuckers...the great majority of Southern Baptists that everyone loves to hate have nothing on these types."

Quote :

" I just feel that trying to know and understand is an exercise in futility, so I live my life on the premise that I don't and can't know."

There's no reason to think that the existence of something which is claimed to have an effect on observable reality is not a scientific question. If you're talking about gods which have no discernible effect, then fine. But all the gods of all the various religious sects which you're totally cool with, the existence of their gods is absolutely a scientific question. Why give up trying to determine the answer to that question? Especially since powerful people are making political decisions that affect you and people you care about based on that question. It's not futile, and it's utterly important.

Quote :

"Every self proclaimed atheist I've ever met, I'd actually classify as agnostic. They just don't get the attention whoring by calling themselves agnostic "

See image above. Also:

Quote :

"The atheist has claimed "There is no God.""

Refer to the above chart and understand that almost every atheist will not claim definitively "There is no God." Even Richard Dawkins (not that I worship the guy but he is probably the quintessential atheist, right?) doesn't go that far. The most common (and my) form of atheism is "There is almost certainly no god, and the god claims given by the major religious traditions today are unproven and should be disregarded as superstition." Almost all atheists are agnostic (about the ability to know) atheists (about believing in) regarding all gods, and gnostic atheists about particular god claims.

Quote :

"I've never seen anyone's mind changed either way on an internet debate either, I think it's definitely a personal thing that you have to come to on your own. "

V, It's not even very much about changing the other person's mind. There are many more 3rd party observers watching the discussion that are on varying places of the "I'm convinced there is a God" spectrum.

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2011 2:09:27 PM

I've never seen anyone's mind changed either way on an internet debate either, I think it's definitely a personal thing that you have to come to on your own.

Name calling doesn't help. If person A calls person B stupid, B will think... "Well I know I'm not clinically stupid, so therefore person A must not know what he's talking about." Then the discussion falls apart because both people think the other is stupid.

but there's no harm in discussing it anyway


No one has the answers to everything, but we do have the answers to a lot of things (or at least good approximations of answers). If you start with the answers that we have, there is no way to jump to the conclusion that God exists. It's an artifact of our ancestors that I think is holding us back from realizing our true potential as a human race.

If everyone proceeded from the assumption that we are alone on this rock in the vastness of space and no one is going to magically fix all our problems at an indefinite point in the very near future, wouldn't we work together a bit better?

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2011 2:12:18 PM

i read a really cool article once where steven hawkings explains that if someone can prove the universe is infinite, he will stop believing in the possibility of god.



imma see if i can find it.



btw if anyone cares.
i do believe in god. (as like an energy).
i do believe something happens to our energy and persona after we die.
i do not believe in hell.
people look at me weird b/c i dont believe hitler is burning.

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 2:19 PM. Reason : o.O]

5/16/2011 2:16:30 PM

Not that article, but a recent one.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110516/us_yblog_thelookout/stephen-hawking-says-afterlife-is-a-fairy-story

5/16/2011 2:18:52 PM

^ohmygod

Quote :

"What could define God [is a conception of divinity] as the embodiment of the laws of nature. However, this is not what most people would think of that God"

YES YES YES

5/16/2011 2:20:56 PM

^ i like that

5/16/2011 2:24:46 PM

Quote :

"If everyone proceeded from the assumption that we are alone on this rock in the vastness of space and no one is going to magically fix all our problems at an indefinite point in the very near future, wouldn't we work together a bit better? "

i thoguht this too.

but i feel like there are too many other variables to consider


if there are no consequences to be held up to in an afterlife, then i feel like philanthropy would decrease.
if you live and then you die, nothing happens, i think more people would make more of the time here on earth and be greedier,
that make any sense?

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 2:26 PM. Reason : sdfsd]

5/16/2011 2:25:54 PM

Quote :

"if there are no consequences to be held up to in an afterlife, then i feel like philanthropy would decrease. if you live and then you die, nothing happens, i think more people would make more of the time here on earth and be greedier, that make any sense?"

No. We're social and empathetic animals. We don't need the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell to make us nice to each other. And in fact, when we're not focused on the afterlife and following what's written in books we can do cool things like abolish slavery.

5/16/2011 2:31:38 PM

Meh, I think I'd have to agree more with Joie

5/16/2011 2:33:52 PM

do people really behave as they do because they fear hell?

You still have Earth consequences for what you do. Your actions still affect other people.

5/16/2011 2:38:31 PM

If the only reason you're not out raping and pillaging is you fear God, then you're a bad person. Almost every single Christian on this planet isn't good because they fear God; it's because they want to be good people and they understand that being good people to others is the best way to be treated similarly. Non-sociopaths understand this concept entirely independent of whether they think they have a soul.

5/16/2011 2:38:58 PM

I think you are going to have to agree to disagree... I agree with the other guys too- if everyone knew that there was nothing after death, and this go around was all you got, then I think they would prove to be more selfish and self pleasing.

5/16/2011 2:41:19 PM

i don't think i'm that selfish

see Sam Harris vid below

[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 3:12 PM. Reason : edit]

5/16/2011 2:45:48 PM

Think that if you wish, but reality doesn't play out like this at all. There are many examples of good and terrible Christians just as there are examples of good and terrible atheists and good and terrible everything else.

Where are all the news stories of ex-Christians losing their religion and going on murderous rampages?

5/16/2011 2:48:10 PM

Your saying it has to be an extreme change in life style... it doesnt- and i find it silly to say a loss of faith will result in absolutely zero lifestyle/character change

5/16/2011 2:53:09 PM

I'm not claiming that at all. In fact, I believe there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and moral behavior. I think that true morality (secular morality) is clouded by superstition, not supported by it.

America is one of the most religious of Western Civilization and yet also the most violent. It must be all the damned atheists skewing the numbers.

5/16/2011 3:00:03 PM

sample size of 1 here, but my moral foundation didn't go out the window when I decided that religion was a human creation

You should treat people right because it's the right thing to do. I attribute my morality more to my parent's teaching than to church. The (Catholic) church seemed mostly focused on "every sperm is sacred"

Sam Harris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

5/16/2011 3:01:01 PM

Quote :

"I'm not claiming that at all. In fact, I believe there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and moral behavior. I think that true morality (secular morality) is clouded by superstition, not supported by it."

Yet, modern law has basis in the law given by God to Moses.

5/16/2011 3:09:48 PM

Well I supposedly have a high IQ and I am an athiest so I guess I can half get behind this but if I had to go liberal or conservative I'd say I'm on the conservative side.

5/16/2011 3:11:55 PM

Quote :

"Yet, modern law has basis in the law given by God to Moses."

No, it doesn't.

5/16/2011 3:13:49 PM

i thought Babylonian law was the first 'modern' type law system

5/16/2011 3:21:16 PM

"Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

If there be a controversy between men, and they resort to judgment, and they judge their case; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked."


Just a few examples of our modern morality. Sounds like murder is bad, stealing is bad, perjury is bad. The guilty are condemned and the innocent are not punished according to a just judge. This sounds like modern morality to me. Keep in mind I say based so obviously everything in our system is not taken from the Law of Moses nor is everything from the Law of Moses placed into our system.

5/16/2011 3:21:51 PM

so you're saying if Moses had never gotten those ten commandments, we wouldn't have laws against killing each other? we would think taking other people's stuff is ok?

The first 5 commandments are God's ego trip and the last are common sense

5/16/2011 3:25:35 PM