Quote :

"Hernandez's arrest angered Latino groups, who said he was targeted because of his race."

If Woodfin cops pulled him then this is probably true. They are trying to rid the place of illegal immigrants by actively targeting them, I think their doing it to get new neighborhoods in and improve property values to Asheville prices.

5/15/2011 11:57:10 AM

This system was designed to err on the side of not locking the wrong people up. But, with this war on drugs, everything has gotten so out of whack. And people act like this is just the cost of having police.

I mean, these police officers technically didn't break any rules in this situation. And the guys who bust up in your home and shoot you dead for being in their way, they're not breaking any rules either. It's all just collateral damage. And we're supposed to accept that this is what it means to be protected today...

[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2011 12:09:01 PM

It should be a felony to use or sell a drug test that can return false positives.

5/15/2011 12:11:22 PM

^ Seriously, man? Then I doubt we will ever have them as almost nothing is 100 percent flawless.


Last post then I'll shut up.....

I'm afraid there will always be collateral damage, but you are right Bridget, we should strive to limit it the best we can.

And Tanz, the thing about your argument that I find unrealistic is this (and if I am overstating your position, I apologize):

Its almost as if you are saying that unless the test is 100 percent accurate, we shouldn't go by it. Like I said, take the breathalyzer. It has a high degree of accuracy but is not infallible. So because it is not certain, and there is a chance of innocence, the cop should let a probable drunk go? And yes, its not a perfect analogy, there are usually other indicators with drinking and driving. Sometimes the contraband is all you have in a drug bust (sometimes not). There is simply no guarantees, and sometimes innocent people are going to be arrested in order to convict the guilty.

Hell our entire criminal justice system is built upon reasonable doubt, and all we can really do is play the probabilities.

So again, to me, it should all rest on how accurate these tests really are.


It reminds me of people who get arrested and have bail set. Some can't afford it so they sit in a county jail for quite some time even though they have'nt been determined guilty.Of course on occasion these people are later shown to be innocent/gotten off, etc. We are supposed to have speedy trials but the system is overburdened, and definitely flawed. Sadly, there is an inevitability that some people get screwed over. Im not sure that tons of money being thrown at it would even suffice. Its the realistic side of an imperfect world.


End of stupid rant.





[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 12:38 PM. Reason : grammar]

5/15/2011 12:34:34 PM

Quote :

"Drive the sample to Raleigh and force the techs to run the test immediately, so they won't keep an innocent man in custody?"

If I'm a police chief, and someone in my department just found what we think to be 91 lbs of cocaine, I really don't see why it's a stretch to get this test done immediately.

That also raises the larger question of why there isn't more than one lab in the state (assuming there is only one, as that it what you hinted at). Of course, this is probably just one of many things that could be privatized, and we'd have far greater efficiency, but that is another story...

5/15/2011 12:42:49 PM

Well, I guess Im not done.

I think there is more than one (and I know some have mobile crime labs), but a lot work, from what I remember, goes to the SBI lab in raleigh.


I visited a while ago, and I know they are usually backlogged like you wouldn't believe.

But your right, they probably should have put a rush job on 91 pounds of supposed coke.



[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason : man i jut cant seem to shut up today. ]

5/15/2011 12:46:46 PM

Wait, wait, wait...so this officer thought he caught a dude just driving around with 91 pounds of cocaine?! Did he think he caught Pablo fucking Escobar?

I mean, this is some pretty shitty police work if you ask me. The way this guy reacted to the situation, he shouldn't have struck anyone as the kind of criminal mastermind that'd be carrying around 91 pounds of cocaine. He really should've realized someone with that much stuff would be a little more careful than this guy was.

Note: I didn't read the rest of this thread (only the OP), so apologies if this has already been brought up and debated.

[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 1:12 PM. Reason : s]

5/15/2011 1:11:49 PM

no, this guy thought he was pablo escobar.....

http://www.insightcrime.org/insight-latest-news/item/478-cop-arrested-for-smuggling-103-kilos-of-cocaine

Quote :

"Share A high-ranking police commander in Colombia was arrested Thursday with over 100 kilos of cocaine hidden in his car. Police corruption has a long and troubled history in Colombia, but at first glance this case is unusual as it apparently involves a top official directly transporting narcotics. "

Jesus, that is a lot of coke.

5/15/2011 1:28:09 PM

Where did that happen?

Quote :

"POLICE IN COLUMBIA"

Oh nvm then.

5/15/2011 2:05:13 PM

ITT Str8BacardiL learns about type 1 and type 2 errors...

5/15/2011 2:57:48 PM

The only problem I have with this is not reimbursing the guy fully for damages.


Also I don't know what exactly happened when the cop approached him, but blowing his tires should be the last option, especially if he didn't have his lights and sirens on.



I also want to know why a dude had 91 pounds of dough while he was on a road trip across the country.

5/15/2011 3:06:12 PM

Quote :

"Its almost as if you are saying that unless the test is 100 percent accurate, we shouldn't go by it."

I'm not saying this at all.

Quote :

"Hell our entire criminal justice system is built upon reasonable doubt, and all we can really do is play the probabilities."

The judicial system is built upon the threshold of reasonable doubt, which is established (or not) by presented evidence (which doesn't neccessarily have to be strictly objective). Probabilities should have nothing to do with it. Should Brad Cooper be guilty because it's "always" the husband? Should Hispanics be subjected to random immigration status checks becuase many are aliens?

Police work is based on reasonable suspicion, which may be based in part on the results of field tests such as drug kits and breathalyzers. Those using the tests should be knowledgeable of what information such a test can and cannot provide, and limitations of that information. Test results, knowledge of how the test works, and knowledge of the situation should be used together to establish reasonable suspicion.

Both reasonable doubt and reasonable suspicion are based on a presumption of innocence. The question is "Assuming innocence, does the evidence demonstrate a reasonable suspicion (for police) or reasonable doubt (for the judiciary)?" It's not "Well, nothing says he's innocent" or "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

My issue isn't that they're using a test that can create false positives. It's that the police are using a test that can provide false positives with little or no knowledge of what legal substances can create a false positive. That lack of knowledge is not responsible policing, and it is not fulfilling of the police's responsibility to establish reasonable suspicions prior to arrest.

[Edited on May 15, 2011 at 5:46 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2011 5:45:03 PM

You learn something new everyday! I think there are 3 labs in NC? (Raleigh, GSO and Skyland?)

Anyways, this article doesn't really explain or attempt to explain why the vehicle was stopped. Was this an experienced interdiction officer who attempted to contact the driver or just a your average patrol officer?

Also, 91lbs is about 40 kilos; this type of weight, along with bulk cash is driving down I-85, I-40, I-95 all day. How else do you think it gets moved into Raleigh, Charlotte, Greensboro?

5/15/2011 10:35:21 PM

Im still curious who goes on vacation with 91 pounds of dough with shrimp in it

5/16/2011 2:03:52 AM

Quote :

"I'm stunned that you don't think four days in jail for an innocent man isn't a really big deal"

this person gets it.

especially when you consider that the most an alleged perpetrator of domestic violence can be held is 48 hours. (before the bond/probable cause is reviewed).

victimless crime < domestic violence.

(that's purely based on my personal opinion of how these differing fact scenarios are handled under North Carolina law)

Quote :

"But you know, just to be devil's advocate here: Even if they knew or should have known that the tests could return a false positive, what would you then expect these cops to do?"

i would expect that if the police properly disclosed the questionable nature of the evdience obtained, their probable cause hearing would go much differently. but, i'm only going on what has been presented to us here by the media.

in addition to all of these facts, if the police truly thought he was trying to flee, why did they not charge him with resist/obstruct/delay? it did not meet the criteria for felony elude, but misdemeanor charges were available should they have determined that the defendant attempted to evade arrest or investigation prior to his tires/means of travel being disabled by the officers.



[Edited on May 16, 2011 at 3:36 AM. Reason : .]

5/16/2011 3:33:30 AM

some truth just dropped in this thread.

5/16/2011 9:22:57 AM

Quote :

"i would expect that if the police properly disclosed the questionable nature of the evdience obtained, their probable cause hearing would go much differently. but, i'm only going on what has been presented to us here by the media."

There is no standard for narcotic field tests; even if there was, there is no real probable cause hearing in North Carolina outside of a grand jury. The probable cause found during in front of a magistrate does not and should not take into consideration the reliability of the evidence.

5/16/2011 9:39:29 AM

Quote :

"The only problem I have with this is not reimbursing the guy fully for damages."

Quote :

"He told the newspaper through an interpreter that he saw steam coming from his truck and pulled over. A deputy approached, and Hernandez thought the officer wanted him to move and drove away with his hazard lights on. Officers thought he was trying to flee and punctured his tires."

Quote :

""That doesn't pay economically for what I lost," he said. "That doesn't pay for my tires."""

The tires are on him as far as I'm concerned. That all happened due to his own actions before he was arrested and has nothing to do with the false positive on the drug test.

5/16/2011 9:52:35 AM

I still think whoever is profiting from making flawed field tests should be thrown in jail too....if we got room in there for the guy riding around with tortilla dough, we got room for the people profiting from his misfortune.

Maybe then they would do a better job disclosing the flaws of their tests and making sure the people who use them are properly trained.

5/16/2011 9:55:22 AM